January 2005
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- [SPAM] DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs? Dana V. Baldwin
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Wayne Witzke
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Corey Cauble
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) HRose
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) cruise
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) Michael Sellers
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) P J
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
John Buehler wrote:
> Cruise writes:
>> I like the concept - I'd be worried about the havoc griefers
>> could cause, but certainly a very interesting idea.
> Perhaps I'm blinded by enthusiasm for my own ideas, but the grief
> potential isn't clear to me. What griefing can players engage in?
Depends how the system is implemented for specifics, but anything
which requires players working together to acheive a goal will be
sabotaged - most open raids have to put up with small groups trying
to screw everyone else over.
>> The only difficulty is how to dish out rewards...it can't be
>> based on damage done, because that screws over support
>> classes. Measuring general utility or assistance provided is
>> probably intractable, or at least going to be perceived as unfair
>> more often than not.
> I believe that rewards should be granted by group consent. How
> exactly to do this I don't know, but I do believe that something
> in the spirit of voting for players during the course of or
> immediately after a combat engagement is the way to go. The
> voting may automatically cause rewards to flow to those
> individuals, or it may simply be that those individuals are voted
> as trusted individuals who can then decide who gets what. It may
> be related to a 'friends' system with the assumption that I almost
> always vote for my friends.
> This is a slightly more dynamic version of what happens in large
> group attacks in other games. Normally, only trusted people are
> permitted to join in on large group attacks, and the rules are
> clearly set out. Specific people will collect rewards, lotteries
> will assign them to group members, etc.
> There may be other issues to be addressed, such as who is actually
> claiming to have been part of the battles. If someone claims to
> be part of the battle, an appropriate icon hovers over their head.
> If players see someone with the icon and who is completely
> inactive during the fight, they may vote to have them excluded
> from the group rewards. Players seem to be pretty good at
> self-policing things like that.
For every fight? I guess it depends what counts as one "fight" - but
for the impromptu grouping suggested above, it may be for a single
matter-of-minutes combat. Voting for rewards everytime would get a
little wearisome... And while it works for occasional, high-profile
raids, where there's someone trusted in charge, I'm not convinced it
can scale all the way down to front-line combat.
>> Maybe a more flexible version of EQ2's combat locking? The first
>> player to a mob locks it, but other players can be invited to the
>> fight at any point - it would end up similar to grouping but on
>> more of a per-fight basis. Suddenly discover that your current
>> fight is harder than you expected? Yell for help, and any nearby
>> players can respond and join in for a share of the reward (and
>> perhaps penalty if the original player dies? Just trying to
>> balance the various abuse possibilities).
> I think that you're right back to individual rewards being the
> motivation to play, at which point groups are an annoyance. Focus
> the design on group goals with appropriate entertainment for
> individuals and you're on the right path.
Heh. Maybe I'm more cynical than you, but I just can't see a game
with no personal rewards being popular. I'd love to be proved wrong,
and I agree it's a much better usage of the multiplayer framework.
>> Either of these systems would make actual /communication/ and
>> socialising an inherent part of playing the game, rather than
>> something which is just done in downtime.
> That would be an interesting hybrid. It would still present some
> difficulties. Lowbies would have to travel with highbies, else
> just getting to the highbie areas would be impossible. The same
> with getting out of the highbie area, depending on the impact of a
> character death. There would be issues with who gets what from
> the rewards, given that items would surely be commensurate with
> the higher level powers of the highbie characters.
If you don't want power tied to success, then avoiding an overflow
of stat-boosting equipment is probably a good idea. I still dream of
an RPG where success depends on skill, not equipment.
> In short, character power levels partition content. Because
> content is usually partitioned geographically to keep more
> powerful opponents away from less powerful player characters, it
> results in geographic partitioning of players. Net result: player
> partitioning according to character power levels.
There seems little reason to force players apart like that...most
MUD's I've played have really tough opponents (like the shopkeepers,
town guards, etc.) mixed in with the starting town's newbie
fodder. I've found this helps socialisation a lot, as there are
often experienced players around with the newer players.
> Make achievement roughly orthogonal to the basic activity of the
> characters and the problem is avoided. Instead of fighters
> becoming better fighters, they are granted esteem by NPCs. If
> NPCs are sufficiently interesting vending machines, then that
> esteem (usually referred to as 'faction') can translate into
> interesting vending actions. What I call 'favors'. A faction and
> favors system permits players to be rewarded for their actions,
> but without power accrual, and in a variety of ways.
<snip>
> The idea is to move orthogonal to the single track of character
> power accrual. Let the game be more multidimensional, and let the
> achievements impact the multidimensionality of the game instead of
> the linear track that we're used to seeing.
I think one of the big changes for MMG's will be the splitting up of
"XP" into different types of experience and accomplishment. So
combat, crafting, team-leadership etc. all get their own
metrics. And as you say, faction opinions can be another measure of
success.
--
[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org ]
"quantam sufficit" - Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) Ling Lo
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) HRose
- Homogeneity and choice Eric Random
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Koster, Raph
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Damion Schubert
- Wish cancelled... Eric Scholten
- New job...Alternate Reality Games Adam
- Wish cancelled... Artur Biesiadowski
- MMORPG Cancellations of the past 2 Years Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations of the past 2 Years Mike Rozak
- ***SPAM*** Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Miroslav Silovic
- [Media] A WoW stats web site Mike Rozak
- [Media] A WoW stats web site Zak Jensen
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Tom Hunter
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Amanda Walker
- weapon choices Matthew D. Fuller
- weapon choices Tom Hunter
- weapon choices cruise
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do peoplelikeweather in MMORPGs?) Matt Mihaly
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Douglas Goodall
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play ceo
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Mike Oxford
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Vincent Archer
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play cruise
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Damion Schubert
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play cruise
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Zach Collins (Siege)
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Miroslav Silovic
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Michael Hartman
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mike Shaver
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Vincent Archer
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Michael Hartman
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Bart Simon
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Jon Mayo
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Byron Ellacott
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy David Kennerly
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy David Kennerly
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Miroslav Silovic
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Roger Hicks
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mike Rozak
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy olag@ifi.uio.no
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mark Mensch
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Vincent Archer
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... ceo
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Tess Snider
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Vladimir Cole
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Mike Oxford
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... olag@ifi.uio.no
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Johan A
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Tess Snider
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... ceo
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Rayzam
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Tom Hunter
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Michael Sellers
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat olag@ifi.uio.no
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Darkwolf
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat olag@ifi.uio.no
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Rayzam
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Jon Monteleone
- Homogeneity and choice Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice Paolo Piselli
- Homogeneity and choice Sporky McBeard
- DESIGN: IGDA Persistent Worlds White Paper Alistair Milne
- DESIGN: IGDA Persistent Worlds White Paper Daniel James
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Sporky McBeard
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Kiztent Hatepriest
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Amanda Walker
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Greg Titus
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Travis Nixon
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content cruise
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- [SPAM] DESIGN: WoW quests and content Dana V. Baldwin
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Edward Glowacki
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Byron Ellacott
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Johan A
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content logic@jrlogic.dyndns.org
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content olag@ifi.uio.no
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Damion Schubert
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Johan A
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Shaver
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Byron Ellacott
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content John Buehler
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Jim Purbrick
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content David Kennerly
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Chris
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content P J
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Douglas Goodall
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Damion Schubert
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Yannick Jean
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 15 Dread Quixadhal
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Johan A
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Spot
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Bob Kovalchick
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Sean Howard
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Brett Bibby
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Dread Quixadhal
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Vincent Archer
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Mike Shaver
- WoW and humor Amanda Walker
- WoW and humor Vincent Archer
- WoW and humor Mike Oxford
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Michael Hartman
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Kiztent Hatepriest
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Michael Hartman
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Greg B
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Byron Ellacott
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Grimwell
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Lisa Galarneau
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Ben Carter
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Vincent Archer