January 2005
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- [SPAM] DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs? Dana V. Baldwin
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Wayne Witzke
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Corey Cauble
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) HRose
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) cruise
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) Michael Sellers
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) P J
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
John Buehler wrote:
> Cruise writes:
>> P J wrote:
>>> Back in beta, I heard WoW called - the best single-player game
>>> I've ever played with other people. That pretty much sums it up
>>> in a nutshell. While there are things you need other people for
>>> - and I totally disagree that you have to FORCE grouping - it
>>> addresses the fact that there is little beyond game mechanic
>>> goals to retain users. You CAN 'win' WoW - or at least it feels
>>> that way. Great as a game - IMHO longterm death for a MMO.
>> Interestingly, this is similar to the complaints many have about
>> CoH - the lack of socialisation.
>> It seems likely that this is a result of the
>> streamlining...you're too busy playing to worry about other
>> people. I guess the question then becomes: "Can we have focused
>> MMORPGs that are also social?"
>> A better way of phrasing it might be: "Is it possible to make
>> socialising and grouping as much fun and /rewarding/ as just
>> playing the game as if it were a single-player game?"
>> So what of problems need to be overcome?
>> - Time to group
>> - Lumped with bad team-mates
>> - Communication is awkward or too fiddly
>> And no doubt there's more...
>> Again, can we blame the grind? Is anything that doesn't
>> contribute to that next level going to be ignored? Is it possible
>> to have socialising aid the levelling process in other ways from
>> just getting more XP in teams?
<snip>
> For example, my idea for sating the desires of the combat-hungry
> is to have a kind of Front Lines Area where the NPC baddies are.
> There is literally a front line, as with WWI or WWII combat.
> Through the actions of player characters, that line can be pushed
> back and forth. The pushing back exposes new ground (to vary the
> combat), new resources (to vary the trade and exploration
> experiences) and perhaps new opponents. On day one of the game,
> the Vandals are at the gates of Rome. On day one thousand of the
> game, the Vandals have long been defeated, and many other enemies
> (probably all members kingdoms of some vast evil empire), and the
> lands claimed have been settled by the other players.
> The point of doing this is to ensure that no grouping is
> necessary, that the combat-interested have a place to gather,
> that there is always a ready stream of opponents (directed at the
> macro level by company employees for maximum challenge), and that
> progress is measured for the group, not for individuals.
> Capturing the Third Orc Tower is a moment in game history.
> Perhaps to be lost again, but the gaining of the tower is a
> landmark moment.
I like the concept - I'd be worried about the havoc griefers could
cause, but certainly a very interesting idea.
As a more general thought, could we do without groups in any MMORPG?
Players simply play the game, and work together if they happen to be
in the same area. The only difficulty is how to dish out
rewards...it can't be based on damage done, because that screws over
support classes. Measuring general utility or assistance provided is
probably intractable, or at least going to be perceived as unfair
more often than not.
Maybe a more flexible version of EQ2's combat locking? The first
player to a mob locks it, but other players can be invited to the
fight at any point - it would end up similar to grouping but on more
of a per-fight basis. Suddenly discover that your current fight is
harder than you expected? Yell for help, and any nearby players can
respond and join in for a share of the reward (and perhaps penalty
if the original player dies? Just trying to balance the various
abuse possibilities).
A groupless system would also work well in J C Lawrence's "resource
economy based on human attention."
Either of these systems would make actual /communication/ and
socialising an inherent part of playing the game, rather than
something which is just done in downtime.
> Such a game cannot have character levels that significantly
> affect character effectiveness. Levels inherently oppose a group
> identity. Recognition of standing in a group is perfectly
> reasonable, but distinct power levels immediately results in
> partitioning of game content, meaning partitioning of social
> groups according to character effectiveness. It's the classic
> case of 'keep up or drop out'.
If you removed the forced level penalties from combat in most RPG
systems, I think you'd have a good compromise. That needs
explaining, so let's take an example.
In CoH, every other level you can add a new ability. Generally you
start with the most basic, general powers, and add more powerful but
specific ones later. However, there are fixed penalties for
fighting enemies higher level than you, which go up exponentially as
the level difference increases. Take those penalties away, however,
and the only difference between low and high level is the range of
abilities they have. A low level hero will have no resistances
against holds, for example, making them very vulnerable to a higher
level character with them.
This still provides the benefit to levelling, but enables new
players to at least contribute something. This couples nicely with
the no-grouping concepts above, as you don't have to worry about the
level of the person who comes in to help...
--
[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org ]
"quantam sufficit" - Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) Ling Lo
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) HRose
- Homogeneity and choice Eric Random
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Koster, Raph
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Damion Schubert
- Wish cancelled... Eric Scholten
- New job...Alternate Reality Games Adam
- Wish cancelled... Artur Biesiadowski
- MMORPG Cancellations of the past 2 Years Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations of the past 2 Years Mike Rozak
- ***SPAM*** Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Miroslav Silovic
- [Media] A WoW stats web site Mike Rozak
- [Media] A WoW stats web site Zak Jensen
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Tom Hunter
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Amanda Walker
- weapon choices Matthew D. Fuller
- weapon choices Tom Hunter
- weapon choices cruise
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do peoplelikeweather in MMORPGs?) Matt Mihaly
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Douglas Goodall
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play ceo
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Mike Oxford
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Vincent Archer
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play cruise
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Damion Schubert
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play cruise
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Zach Collins (Siege)
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Miroslav Silovic
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Michael Hartman
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mike Shaver
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Vincent Archer
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Michael Hartman
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Bart Simon
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Jon Mayo
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Byron Ellacott
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy David Kennerly
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy David Kennerly
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Miroslav Silovic
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Roger Hicks
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mike Rozak
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy olag@ifi.uio.no
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mark Mensch
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Vincent Archer
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... ceo
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Tess Snider
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Vladimir Cole
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Mike Oxford
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... olag@ifi.uio.no
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Johan A
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Tess Snider
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... ceo
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Rayzam
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Tom Hunter
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Michael Sellers
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat olag@ifi.uio.no
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Darkwolf
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat olag@ifi.uio.no
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Rayzam
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Jon Monteleone
- Homogeneity and choice Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice Paolo Piselli
- Homogeneity and choice Sporky McBeard
- DESIGN: IGDA Persistent Worlds White Paper Alistair Milne
- DESIGN: IGDA Persistent Worlds White Paper Daniel James
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Sporky McBeard
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Kiztent Hatepriest
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Amanda Walker
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Greg Titus
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Travis Nixon
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content cruise
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- [SPAM] DESIGN: WoW quests and content Dana V. Baldwin
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Edward Glowacki
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Byron Ellacott
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Johan A
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content logic@jrlogic.dyndns.org
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content olag@ifi.uio.no
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Damion Schubert
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Johan A
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Shaver
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Byron Ellacott
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content John Buehler
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Jim Purbrick
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content David Kennerly
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Chris
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content P J
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Douglas Goodall
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Damion Schubert
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Yannick Jean
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 15 Dread Quixadhal
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Johan A
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Spot
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Bob Kovalchick
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Sean Howard
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Brett Bibby
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Dread Quixadhal
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Vincent Archer
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Mike Shaver
- WoW and humor Amanda Walker
- WoW and humor Vincent Archer
- WoW and humor Mike Oxford
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Michael Hartman
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Kiztent Hatepriest
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Michael Hartman
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Greg B
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Byron Ellacott
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Grimwell
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Lisa Galarneau
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Ben Carter
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Vincent Archer