January 2005
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- [SPAM] DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs? Dana V. Baldwin
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Wayne Witzke
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Corey Cauble
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) HRose
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) cruise
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) Michael Sellers
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) P J
--- Michael Sellers <mike@onlinealchemy.com> wrote:
> Cruise wrote:
>> Both WoW and CoH seem to have chosen to focus on one particular
>> play style and make sure that is as polished as possible, in
>> contrast to the "do anything" style games of earlier generations
>> of MMORPG's. Guild Wars has distilled the core combat even
>> further. of reductionism?
> This may then be a local minimum of sorts, an extreme end to the
> pendulum's swing: given all that we now *know* works (given WoW's
> subscriber numbers), a good candidate for success is to go where
> they're not: broaden the world, broaden the audience. Mike
> Sellers
I'm gonna throw my .02 in here, fwiw.
I guess 'success' would be my first question. What is a successful
MMO? WoW absolutely has broken every sales record - but is that the
yardstick for MMOs? Do you measure success in box sales or longterm
retention and recurring subscriptions on the MMO model - or both?
Where is the dividing line if you sell a million boxes - what
percentage of those sales do you have to retain, and for how long -
and how many new sales do you have to attract to measure success? I
honestly have no idea of this answer - but my gut tells me that
longterm retention > box sales.
I play Wow - and I was in Beta. My impressions haven't changed since
then (even with the content that was added for release), and my
concerns remain the same.
I look at a MMO as having two parts. The game (mechanics -
technical aspects like leveling, tradeskills, etc), and the world
(the persistent 'stickiness' - the reasons folks keep playing for
years).
Blizzard did an amazing job with the game aspects. WoW is fun. It's
funny. It's fast-paced with gratification in the
leveling/advancement process around every corner. As a 'game' I'd
give it a very solid A. My one hope as a player is that it will
prove you don't have to be punitive to a player's time for the sake
of longevity (see EQ). Artificial time-sinks for the sake of
stretching out the game irritate players and they are very
transparent. The Achilles heal is - that is the mechanism chosen by
MMOs traditionally to 'stretch' content - and that is where WoW is
likely to have problems (indeed, already is having problems after
just 3 months).
On the world side - the 'stickiness' factor unfortunately hovers
around a D. While players are screaming for new high-end content -
and I'm sure there will be some, that's only a temporary patch to
the problem. There is simply no way any company, no matter how good,
can keep ahead of the consumption of content curve in a MMO. That
again is looking solely to the 'game' for retention. Games end -
games can be 'won' - MMOs cannot, which is why it's not uncommon to
find MMO players playing the same game for years. Nearly every
'game' mechanic has a world component.
As an example - gear. While WoW does have 'decay' - it's not really
decay - it's simply having to repair. While this is a minor
gold-sink - it does nothing to further goals of replacement, or to
stimulate need of tradeskills. Decay is a very delicate matter - too
much and it becomes punitive - too little and you might as well not
have done it in the first place - but eventually having to replace
items does indeed produce recurring goals and it does stimulate
market share for tradesmen (which is ongoing purpose for that niche
of player).
PvP while it's a great ongoing goal isn't for everyone. Time will
tell (once the system is really in) if that's enough to keep folks
around. With the user base WoW attracted it may be - but I wouldn't
bet the farm that alone is enough.
Faction - there is a faction based system but it seems broken at the
high-end - and will only mean something if it actually DOES
something eventually.
Fluff factor - WoW actually has done more in this area than most
MMOs - which is great, but it really wasn't done in a manner that
continues goals. I will give them a lot of credit for recognizing
the importance of 'fluff' - i.e., things that are fun just for the
sake of being fun vs. power, much more could be done in this area in
continuing goals with their current setup.
The 'other' - the other can be pets, houses, guilds, NPCs, subgames,
anything in the world outside of one's personal character that a
player can have input into to improve, buildup - or maintain.
Probably the best strategy for recurring longterm goals that can
have many faces. Unfortunately at the moment, WoW has very little
'other' factor.
Most importantly - 'stickiness' requires a core user-base that is
persistent. While churn is normal and to be expected, if your core
user-base churns so often a sense of community doesn't form - I
suspect your overall churn will be far higher. There won't be the
normal hesitation to move on if your friends already have.
The game is what folks do while they are in the world, the world is
community and ongoing purpose, the 'why' that gives reason to
continue to play past the mechanics.
Back in beta, I heard WoW called - the best single-player game I've
ever played with other people. That pretty much sums it up in a
nutshell. While there are things you need other people for - and I
totally disagree that you have to FORCE grouping - it addresses the
fact that there is little beyond game mechanic goals to retain
users. You CAN 'win' WoW - or at least it feels that way. Great as
a game - IMHO longterm death for a MMO.
BTW - most other MMOs are also guilty of this very thing - however
the game process is so long and tedious it takes a LOT longer to get
to that point. I guess we'll see if WoW puts this problem in the
spotlight to the point it MUST be fixed. If that happens - the
genre as a whole will be eternally in their debt. If nothing else -
I suspect users won't be nearly as tolerant in the future of
artifical, endless, useless, timesinks.
I guess the good news is - the world part is infinitely 'fixable'.
So, what is the yardstick that is used to determine success? - Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) Ling Lo
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) P J
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) HRose
- Homogeneity and choice Eric Random
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Koster, Raph
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Damion Schubert
- Wish cancelled... Eric Scholten
- New job...Alternate Reality Games Adam
- Wish cancelled... Artur Biesiadowski
- MMORPG Cancellations of the past 2 Years Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations of the past 2 Years Mike Rozak
- ***SPAM*** Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Miroslav Silovic
- [Media] A WoW stats web site Mike Rozak
- [Media] A WoW stats web site Zak Jensen
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Tom Hunter
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Amanda Walker
- weapon choices Matthew D. Fuller
- weapon choices Tom Hunter
- weapon choices cruise
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do peoplelikeweather in MMORPGs?) Matt Mihaly
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Douglas Goodall
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play ceo
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Mike Oxford
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Vincent Archer
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play cruise
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Damion Schubert
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play cruise
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Zach Collins (Siege)
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Miroslav Silovic
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Michael Hartman
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mike Shaver
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Vincent Archer
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Michael Hartman
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Bart Simon
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Jon Mayo
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Byron Ellacott
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy David Kennerly
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy David Kennerly
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Miroslav Silovic
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Roger Hicks
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mike Rozak
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy olag@ifi.uio.no
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mark Mensch
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Vincent Archer
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... ceo
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Tess Snider
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Vladimir Cole
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Mike Oxford
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... olag@ifi.uio.no
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Johan A
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Tess Snider
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... ceo
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Rayzam
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Tom Hunter
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Michael Sellers
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat olag@ifi.uio.no
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Darkwolf
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat olag@ifi.uio.no
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Rayzam
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Jon Monteleone
- Homogeneity and choice Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice Paolo Piselli
- Homogeneity and choice Sporky McBeard
- DESIGN: IGDA Persistent Worlds White Paper Alistair Milne
- DESIGN: IGDA Persistent Worlds White Paper Daniel James
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Sporky McBeard
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Kiztent Hatepriest
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Amanda Walker
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Greg Titus
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Travis Nixon
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content cruise
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- [SPAM] DESIGN: WoW quests and content Dana V. Baldwin
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Edward Glowacki
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Byron Ellacott
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Johan A
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content logic@jrlogic.dyndns.org
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content olag@ifi.uio.no
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Damion Schubert
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Johan A
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Shaver
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Byron Ellacott
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content John Buehler
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Jim Purbrick
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content David Kennerly
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Chris
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content P J
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Douglas Goodall
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Damion Schubert
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Yannick Jean
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 15 Dread Quixadhal
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Johan A
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Spot
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Bob Kovalchick
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Sean Howard
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Brett Bibby
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Dread Quixadhal
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Vincent Archer
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Mike Shaver
- WoW and humor Amanda Walker
- WoW and humor Vincent Archer
- WoW and humor Mike Oxford
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Michael Hartman
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Kiztent Hatepriest
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Michael Hartman
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Greg B
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Byron Ellacott
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Grimwell
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Lisa Galarneau
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Ben Carter
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Vincent Archer