January 2005
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- [SPAM] DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs? Dana V. Baldwin
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) John Buehler
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Wayne Witzke
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Corey Cauble
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) HRose
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) cruise
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) Michael Sellers
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) P J
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) cruise
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) John Buehler
- Attractive Grouping (Was: Focus vs. Scope) Ling Lo
- Focus vs. Scope (WAS: Homogeneity and choice) HRose
- Homogeneity and choice Eric Random
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Koster, Raph
- Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Damion Schubert
- Wish cancelled... Eric Scholten
- New job...Alternate Reality Games Adam
- Wish cancelled... Artur Biesiadowski
- MMORPG Cancellations of the past 2 Years Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations of the past 2 Years Mike Rozak
- ***SPAM*** Homogeneity and choice (Was DESIGN: Why do people like weather in MMORPGs?) Miroslav Silovic
- [Media] A WoW stats web site Mike Rozak
- [Media] A WoW stats web site Zak Jensen
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Tom Hunter
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Amanda Walker
- weapon choices Matthew D. Fuller
- weapon choices Tom Hunter
- weapon choices cruise
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do peoplelikeweather in MMORPGs?) Matt Mihaly
- weapon choices (was DESIGN: Why do people likeweather in MMORPGs?) Douglas Goodall
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play ceo
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Mike Oxford
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play olag@ifi.uio.no
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Vincent Archer
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play cruise
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Johan A
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Damion Schubert
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play cruise
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Zach Collins (Siege)
- Alternative team based approaches to game-play Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
"Derek Licciardi" <kressilac@insightbb.com> wrote:
> Our medium seems to support experiences and social activities far
> more than we design for. It would be nice to see some of this
> take shape. The problem in my mind sits with the suits. As soon
> as they can see the money coming in from a better design, we will
> have games that are not single-player RPGs with thousands of
> people.
That's too easy of an out. Everybody in the game industry blames the
suits for whatever creative differences they may have. The real
problem is that their ideas just aren't very good. I mean, everybody
knows that MMORPG quests suck... but how do you fix it? I have yet
to see a viable theory on the subject which I believe will make a
huge difference.
You're not going to see money coming from good ideas because most
people don't buy games based on good ideas. WoW was praised by all,
though all freely admitted that there was a severe lack of new and
good ideas in it. Yet games like A Tale in the Desert get a "Who
what?" from most people despite critical praise. It's not the suits
which are the problem. It's that the people who have the most
exposure are playing it safe. But I can't blame them for that. Look
at the backlash against UO or SWG these days.
You want to "fix" MMORPG quests. Here's what needs to happen:
1) Dump the story crap - Nobody reads that stuff, nobody
cares. They see "Find 12 Bloody Monkey Paws" and skip the rest. It
doesn't matter how you frame a boring quest, it will still be
boring. Give the plays a tangible reason to do the quest. For
instance, if you were in a city filled with zombies and the power
shuts off, a quest could be to restart the generator. The quest is
already built into the zombie metaphor without requiring explicit
exposition, and it does something useful beyond netting a player
more phat loot.
2) Change the world - MMORPG quests are fundamentally flawed in
that they cannot change the world. If you kill a certain NPC,
he'll respawn a minute or two later. What happens is that the
world is filled with people having the exact same experiences. WoW
is like a theme park with a conveyor belt that just moves you
through the game. The solution to this is to give the player
actions some emphasis in the world. In the previous zombie game,
you could have a human settlement that constantly needs medicine
and food which the players have to provide. When that stuff runs
out, it affects everyone, so the player group which brings in
supplies in a moment of need will become minor heroes - as they
should be. Actually, this is more of a case of the world changing
itself and having the players fight to keep the status quo.
3) Change the missions - Players go through the exact same motions
with every quest as just about every other player. Something like
Thottbot allows other players to look up the locations and goals
that other players had already discovered. Personally, I think
that instance missions are the answer here, because you can modify
the mission based on the player. Most of these procedurally
created content dungeons (like in Anarchy Online) are simplistic
at best, but with some serious consideration put into their
design, you could easily craft some unique experiences for the
player with just a few inputs. I mean, you could even procedurally
create the quests themselves, not just the locations of the goals.
4) Allow certain players to create their own quests - I think it
would be pretty nifty for a player to post a mission saying that
they need X number of monkey paws and that they'll pay Y dollars
for it. Players can accept the quest and fill out the order,
receiving special experience points used for some sort of personal
bonus. In Puzzle Pirates, crafting required hours of time to build
stuff, so the different shops would allow people to come in an do
time for a predecided paycheck. SWG also has the ability for
Bounty Hunters to get missions to kill Jedi players, though these
missions are not player made.
5) Allow certain players to create their own dungeons - I promise
you that players are far more creative than most MMORPGs give them
credit for. It seems that most of the time, their creativity is
called an exploit and time is spend trying to reign it in. If you
give certain, proven players the ability to make their own
dungeons, I think you'll find that they'll use the gift in ways
you never dreamed of (which some would consider a problem). In the
past, in games like Habitat, just giving a player the ability to
create notes was enough to spawn underground newspapers and event
flyers. Some of the best levels for games like Half-Life or Unreal
Tournament weren't created by the developers, but by the
fans. You'd need some sort of peer review before allowing player
dungeons to go live to prevent exploits (a room with the best
sword in the middle of it with no monsters), but I think player
creativity is worth it.
6) Dump the quests altogether - I mean, what purpose do quests
really serve. I think of them a tiny little controlled experiences
- but they tend to be too tiny and too controlled. Why not let
exploration and discovery be its own reward. I'd find locations in
WoW that I'd want to explore, but wouldn't because I didn't have a
quest yet. There is actually no reason to explore in that game
because the benefits are so small compared to being shown where to
go next. If you fought through a dungeon, you'd find nothing of
note, and only have to fight through it again once you picked up a
quest. Maybe the second we stop actually trying to improve quests
and start looking for an alternative is when we'll discover a new
paradigm of online gaming?
As these the answers? Nah. They are just ideas that target specific
areas of questing that I have a problem with and how they could
change so that, at least, the problem wouldn't be as annoying.
- Sean Howard
www.squidi.net - MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Miroslav Silovic
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Michael Hartman
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mike Shaver
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Vincent Archer
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Michael Hartman
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Bart Simon
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Jon Mayo
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Byron Ellacott
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy David Kennerly
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy David Kennerly
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Miroslav Silovic
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Roger Hicks
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Paul Schwanz
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Sporky McBeard
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Douglas Goodall
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mike Rozak
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy olag@ifi.uio.no
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Mark Mensch
- MMO Quest: Why they're still lousy Vincent Archer
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... ceo
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Tess Snider
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Vladimir Cole
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Mike Oxford
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... olag@ifi.uio.no
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Johan A
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Tess Snider
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... ceo
- [bus][des] Anarchy Online and the free MMORPG... Douglas Goodall
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Rayzam
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Tom Hunter
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Michael Sellers
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat olag@ifi.uio.no
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Darkwolf
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat olag@ifi.uio.no
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Rayzam
- realistic combat vs enjoyable combat Jon Monteleone
- Homogeneity and choice Mike Rozak
- Homogeneity and choice Paolo Piselli
- Homogeneity and choice Sporky McBeard
- DESIGN: IGDA Persistent Worlds White Paper Alistair Milne
- DESIGN: IGDA Persistent Worlds White Paper Daniel James
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Sporky McBeard
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Kiztent Hatepriest
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Amanda Walker
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Greg Titus
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Travis Nixon
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content cruise
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- [SPAM] DESIGN: WoW quests and content Dana V. Baldwin
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Edward Glowacki
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Byron Ellacott
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Johan A
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content logic@jrlogic.dyndns.org
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content olag@ifi.uio.no
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Damion Schubert
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Johan A
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Mike Shaver
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Byron Ellacott
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content John Buehler
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Jim Purbrick
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content David Kennerly
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Chris
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content P J
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Douglas Goodall
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Damion Schubert
- DESIGN: WoW quests and content Yannick Jean
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 15 Dread Quixadhal
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Johan A
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Spot
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Bob Kovalchick
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Sean Howard
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Brett Bibby
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Dread Quixadhal
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Vincent Archer
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Mike Shaver
- WoW and humor Amanda Walker
- WoW and humor Vincent Archer
- WoW and humor Mike Oxford
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Michael Hartman
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Kiztent Hatepriest
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 Michael Hartman
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Greg B
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Byron Ellacott
- D&D Online Level Limit Thoughts Grimwell
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Lisa Galarneau
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Ben Carter
- FW: DESIGN: Study of MMORPG/MUD friendliness Vincent Archer