July 2004
- [News] Ultima X: Odyssey cancelled Luca Girardo
- [News] Ultima X: Odyssey cancelled Steven King
- [News] Ultima X: Odyssey cancelled Luca Girardo
- [News] Ultima X: Odyssey cancelled David Kennerly
- [News] Ultima X: Odyssey cancelled Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Threshold RPG
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Par Winzell
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Threshold RPG
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Dana V. Baldwin
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Mark Mensch
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Luca Girardo
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Dana V. Baldwin
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Threshold RPG
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Adam Burr
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Scott Macmillan
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Douglas Goodall
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Sean Howard
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Amanda Walker
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Scott Macmillan
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Sean Howard
- CoH Michael Hartman
- CoH Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Ryan Shwayder
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? cruise
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Oliver Smith
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Oliver Smith
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Byron Ellacott
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Koster, Raph
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Brad McQuaid
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Douglas Goodall
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Dana V. Baldwin
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Douglas Goodall
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Zach Collins (Siege)
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Douglas Goodall
- Instancing ceo
- Instancing Douglas Goodall
- Instancing ceo
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Oliver Smith
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- Depth (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Damion Schubert
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Sean Howard
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Ghilardi Filippo
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Michael Sellers
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Paul McInnes
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Andres Ferraro
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Ryan Shwayder
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Mark Mensch
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Mark Mensch
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Derek Licciardi
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Erik Bethke
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The skyis falling?) Koster, Raph
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The skyis falling?) Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky isfalling?) Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) Derek Licciardi
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Theskyisfalling?) Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) John MacQueen
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky isfalling?) Aaron Switzer
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) Aaron Switzer
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Thesky isfalling?) Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Thesky isfalling?) Aaron Switzer
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Koster, Raph
- MMO Communities (was MMORPGCancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) ceo
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Paul Schwanz
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Paul Schwanz
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities (was [MUD-Dev]MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Matt Mihaly
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) John Arras
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) John Arras
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) cruise
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) John Arras
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) Peter Keeler
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) Otis Viles
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) Malcolm W. Tester II
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) Matt Mihaly
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) cruise
- MMO Communities (was [MUD-Dev] MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Paul Schwanz
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Zach Collins (Siege)
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Paolo Piselli
- forced grouping/coop play Tamzen Cannoy
- forced grouping/coop play Koster, Raph
- forced grouping/coop play Sean Kelly
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Andrew L. Tepper
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) HRose
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) HRose
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) HRose
- What is an MMOG? (was: MMO Communities) ceo
- What is an MMOG? (was: MMO Communities) HRose
- What is an MMOG? ceo
- What is an MMOG? HRose
- What is an MMOG? Dana V. Baldwin
- What is an MMOG? HRose
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) HRose
- MMO Communities Eric Random
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky isfalling?) Paul Schwanz
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) J C Lawrence
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The skyis falling?) Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? ceo
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Thomas Tomiczek
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Douglas Goodall
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Scott Jennings
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Steven King
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? David Kennerly
- Words (WAS: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Zach Collins (Siege)
- Words (WAS: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) kennerly@finegamedesign.com
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? zgj22@drexel.edu
- Is space deep? (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) David Kennerly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Tony Hoyt
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Damion Schubert
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Samantha LeCraft
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Samantha LeCraft
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Oliver Smith
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Damion Schubert
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? J C Lawrence
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? David Kennerly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Michael Sellers
- Sun Game Server Technology Chat Artur Biesiadowski
- Quick Hello Mark Mensch
- Virtual/Real Currencies (was: [MUD-Dev][NEWS]GamingOpenMarket) Jon A. Lambert
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Alex Chacha
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Matt Mihaly
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Russ Whiteman
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Mike Rozak
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Douglas Goodall
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Mike Rozak
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Byron Ellacott
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Mike Rozak
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Byron Ellacott
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Yannick Jean
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Otis Viles
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Mike Rozak
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Erik Bethke
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) dienw
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) J C Lawrence
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) J C Lawrence
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Erik Bethke
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Erik Bethke
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Sean Howard
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Michael Hartman
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Erik Bethke
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Michael Hartman
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Luca Girardo
- CoH and others Alex Chacha
- CoH and others Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- CoH and others David Eckelberry
- CoH and others Vincent Archer
- COH and others Alex Chacha
- COH and others Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- COH and others Alex Chacha
- Revenues Rafael Seabra
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Koster, Raph
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Damion Schubert
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Ghilardi Filippo
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Mike Rozak
- [MUD-Dev]: Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Luca Girardo
- Virtual/Real Currencies Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Koster, Raph
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Derek Licciardi
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Indie MMOG's Rob C
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Rob C
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Rob C
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Michael Sellers
- Indie MMOG's Michael Sellers
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Matt Mihaly
- Indie MMOG's Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Indie MMOG's Matt Mihaly
- Indie MMOG's Amanda Walker
- Indie MMOG's Jon A. Lambert
- Indie MMOG's Zach Collins (Siege)
- Indie MMOG's Amanda Walker
- Indie MMOG's Derek Licciardi
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Matt Mihaly
- Indie MMOG's Mike Rozak
- Indie MMOG's Scott Jennings
- Indie MMOG's Mike Rozak
- Indie MMOG's Tiago Carita
- Indie MMOG's Matt Mihaly
- Indie MMOG's Derek Licciardi
- Indie MMOG's Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Mike Rozak
- Security and cheating in MMOs jmbroyer
- [NEWS] Artifact Entertainment going bankrupt? Luca Girardo
- MEDIA: Multiplayer Gaming's Quiet Revolution J C Lawrence
- DarkGalaxy Tiago Carita
- (no subject) Ghilardi Filippo
- Community? Erik Bethke
- Community? Scott Jennings
- Community? Paul Schwanz
- Community? Brian Thyer
- Community? Sean Howard
- Community? Zach Collins (Siege)
- Community? (Level Grind) Brian Thyer
- Community? (Level Grind) Sean Howard
- Community? (Level Grind) Damion Schubert
- Community? (Level Grind) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Community? (Level Grind) Malcolm W. Tester II
- Community? (Level Grind) Victor Wachter
- Community? (Level Grind) Douglas Goodall
- Community? (Level Grind) Matt Mihaly
- Community? (Level Grind) Ghilardi Filippo
- Community? (Level Grind) HRose
- Community? (Level Grind) Douglas Goodall
- Community? (Level Grind) Ghilardi Filippo
- Community? (Level Grind) Samurai Cat!
- Scalabity in MMOG's Rafael Seabra
- Level Grind - alternative Brendan O'Brien
- Level Grind - alternative darksuit
- Level Grind - alternative Brendan O'Brien
- Level Grind - alternative cruise
- Level Grind - alternative Brendan O'Brien
- Level Grind - alternative cruise
- Level Grind - alternative Brendan O'Brien
- Level Grind - alternative Corey Cauble
- Level Grind - alternative Sean Howard
- Level Grind - alternative Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Better Combat cruise
- Better Combat Ghilardi Filippo
- Better Combat cruise
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat Amanda Walker
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat cruise
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Yannick Jean
- Better Combat Koster, Raph
- Better Combat HRose
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Communication [was: Better Combat] cruise
- Better Communication [was: Better Combat] Michael Hartman
- Better Communication [was: Better Combat] cruise
- Better Communication [was: Better Combat] Koster, Raph
- Better Communication [was: Better Combat] Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Paul Schwanz
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat Darkwolf
- Better Combat Dana V. Baldwin
- Better Combat Matt Mihaly
- Better Combat Koster, Raph
- Better Combat Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Better Combat HRose
- Better Combat Steven King
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Paolo Piselli
- Better Combat Zach Collins (Siege)
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat HRose
- Better Combat Koster, Raph
- Better Combat HRose
- Better Combat (keywords: downtime, socialization, UI) Eric Random
- Better Combat Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Better Combat Amanda Walker
- Better Combat Yannick Jean
- Better Combat Yannick Jean
- Better Combat Tom "cro" Gordon
- Better Combat Alex Arnon
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Dana V. Baldwin
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Dana V. Baldwin
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Derek Larson
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Derek Larson
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat cruise
- Cognitively Interesting Combat ceo
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Byron Ellacott
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Ben Hawes
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Ben Hawes
- Cognitively Interesting Combat KaVir@t-online.de (Richard Woolcock)
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Mike Rozak
- Cognitively Interesting Combat
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Zach Collins (Siege)
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Peter A. Harkins
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) cruise
- Better Combat Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [DGN] Designed Downtime (was Better Combat) David Kennerly
- [DGN] Designed Downtime (was Better Combat) Ryan Shwayder
- [DGN] Designed Downtime (was Better Combat) Ryan Shwayder
- [DGN] Designed Downtime (was Better Combat) Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Alex Arnon
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] cruise
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] John Buehler
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] Matt Mihaly
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] Otis Viles
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] Ben Hawes
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] John Buehler
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar [was: Long-Term Rewards] Michael Hartman
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar [was:Long-Term Rewards] Vladimir Cole
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar Corey Crawford
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar Byron Ellacott
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar Vladimir Cole
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar Mark Mensch
- Better Combat Brendan O'Brien
- Better Combat Zach Collins (Siege)
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Brendan O'Brien
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat cruise
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Byron Ellacott
- Better Combat Craig Huber
- Better Combat Matt Mihaly
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Byron Ellacott
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Byron Ellacott
- Better Combat Paul Schwanz
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Matt Mihaly
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Eric Random
- Better Combat Eric Random
- Better Combat Corey Cauble
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Corey Cauble
- Better Combat Brendan O'Brien
- Better Combat (long) Paul Schwanz
- Better Combat (long) Douglas Goodall
- [DGN] Music (was: Better Combat (long)) Zach Collins (Siege)
- Better Combat (long) Koster, Raph
- Better Combat (long) Matthew Dobervich
- Better Combat (long) David Kennerly
- Better Combat (long) Koster, Raph
David Kennerly [mailto:kennerly@finegamedesign.com] wrote:
> Raph Koster wrote:
>> We can observe a gradual move towards increased formalism and
>> complexity in the development of almost any art form
> In videogames, we can observe a gradual move towards increased
> complexity in the development, for /less/ complexity in the
> consumption.
Really? What examples would you cite for this supposed trend? I
think that if you choose a given genre of game, you will tend to
find a pattern of increasing complexity over time, where neither the
less complex NOR the more complex examples tend to find wider
audiences. Wider audiences tend to come solely at a wondewrful
moment caught at the cusp of complexity and (importantly) novelty.
Once a game is no longer novel, it tends to fall away in audience;
once a game is overly complex, it does likewise.
>> Given that games (in the formal sense) are formal mathematical
>> constructs, I think there's an interesting question to be had
>> there.
> A game is a cultural construct. In the formal sense, a game is a
> formal ritual. It is no more of a mathematical construct than a
> molecule or a right triangle is. Some mathematicians model games,
> often as a recreation. As a meta-game?
IMHO, the core of games is formal and mathematical. Games are
centered on rules. Said rules operate on a known limited variable
set.
The rules and variable set are heavily influenced by culture, and in
that sense games are cultural constructs.
A game is a formal ritual. Rituals, however, are performed by
rote. The moment games become rote is the moment they cease to be
fun.
A molecule is a preexisting construct that obeys mathematical rules
implicit in reality. A right triangle is a pre-existing construct
that obeys mathematical rules implicit in reality (technically, only
in the Euclidean version of reality, but why quibble?). Games are
abstract constructs created to obey a set of arbitrary rules.
In the right triangle example, changing the geometry under which you
look at it may result in it no longer having angles that add up to
180 degrees. It may result in all the lines in the triangle actually
being parallel to one another.
The act of creating a geometry is actually very similar to the act
of designing a game. Each game ruleset is a toy universe with laws
of physics.
>> Given that games are fundamentally formal constructs and not,
>> generally, communicative media (unlike other art forms, which are
>> generally communications *mediated* by formal constructs) that
>> may mean that videogaming may be headed down the path trod by
>> chess and go--towards elites and no mass acceptance.
> To support your hypothesis, have you considered exemplars that are
> numerically-intense and have only a small, devout following? For
> example, Outpost and Puerto Rico are elitist boardgames. Or
> Phoenix Command, a pencil and paper small arms tactics sim with a
> 1000-sided hit location table. Although purely strategic, Chess
> and Go are still two of the most popular boardgames on the planet.
Outpost and Puerto Rico are perfect examples of what I am talking
about. So, for that matter, are Chess and Go. Frankly, being two of
the most popular boardgames on the planet leaves them in in a rather
small niche ghetto. :P Tic-tac-toe, Boxes, and Battleship probably
get played far more. The question is why more Tic-tac-toe players
don't become chess players.
> As for the viability of videogaming: When the top rentals of the
> week are Spiderman 2, Red Dead Revolver, and a slue of sports
> titles, it's a safe bet that the masses accept.
At the moment, certainly. The hypothetical was about the long term,
across generations.
> The trend of videogames is not elitism--it's speciation. While
> some species embody complex rituals, to target some brand of
> elitism, others are simple, for the masses. Videogames speciate
> to target subcultures, because economy of scale does not imply
> efficacy of entertainment.
You are asserting subcultures of complexity levels. This I agree
with. However, I will assert that with games, people move on from
simpler to more complex, which is not necessarily something that
happens with books or music. There's an endless supply of books of
the same complexity level. However, the part that changes from book
to book is mostly peripheral to the core experience of the game.
I know I have argued in the past that the experience of the game is
what we need to assess, the game as a whole, but in this particular
debate I am really focusing on true formal game design, what you
termed "the art of the game." It doesn't matter how many pieces of
art you dress up Crash Bandicoot in, it's the same game, whether or
not it is sold as Donald Duck Goin' Quackers.
What I am proposing as a question is whether, as we speciate the
games, we gradually drop off the lower level of complexity in the
game designs, because the population as a whole is more educated in
the mechanics. We have seen this occur in many genres of games, and
it has always resulted in extreme nichification that eventually
chases away even those who like the genre, as the games become more
and more inbred and baroque.
The question is, is this inevitable for all games? The trend of
games is towards requiring competence in calculus (or
equivalent). When your eight-year-old is doing the equivalent of
calculus in order to play a platformer, are we going to limit the
number of eight-year-olds who will get into gaming?
-Raph - Better Combat (long) David Kennerly
- Better Combat (long) Koster, Raph
- Creating a Player Narrative Ben Hawes
- Creating a Player Narrative Douglas Goodall
- Creating a Player Narrative Tim Schubert
- Creating a Player Narrative Dana V. Baldwin
- Creating a Player Narrative John MacQueen
- Better Combat (long) Matt Monaghan
- Better Combat (long) David Kennerly
- Better Combat (long) Byron Ellacott
- Better Combat (long) J C Lawrence
- Better Combat (long) Freeman, Jeff
- Better Combat (long) cruise
- Better Combat (long) J C Lawrence
- Better Combat (long) Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Better Combat (long) Vincent Archer
- Better Combat (long) Matt Cruikshank
- Better Combat (long) Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Better Combat (long) Zach Collins (Siege)
- Better Combat (long) David Kennerly
- Better Combat (long) Zach Collins (Siege)
- Better Combat (long) Paul Schwanz
- Better Combat (long) David Kennerly
- Better Combat (long) Ben Hawes
- Better Combat Byron Ellacott
- Better Combat cruise
- Better Combat Brendan O'Brien
- Better Combat Dana V. Baldwin
- Better Combat Byron Ellacott
- Level Grind - alternative Sean Kelly
- Level Grind - alternative Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Level Grind - alternative Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Level Grind - alternative Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- [mudlist] MMO Communities (was [MUD-Dev] MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Morgan Dodge
- New combat system Cameron Zemek
- MMO Communities Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMO Communities Randolf Richardson
- MMO Communities Ashley Penney
- MMO Communities Damion Schubert
- MMO Communities Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMO Communities Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities Freeman, Jeff
- MMO Communities Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities Dana V. Baldwin
- MMO Communities Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities Freeman, Jeff
- MMO Communities Zach Collins (Siege)
- MMO Communities Brendan O'Brien
- MMO Communities Matt Mihaly
- MMO Communities Brendan O'Brien
- MMO Communities Brad McQuaid
- MMO Communities Matt Mihaly
- MMO Communities Brendan O'Brien
- MMO Communities Matt Mihaly
- MMO Communities J C Lawrence
- MMO Communities Freeman, Jeff
- MMO Communities Brad McQuaid
- MMO Communities Freeman, Jeff
- MMO Communities Matt Mihaly
- MMO Communities Mike Rozak
- MMO Communities Matt Mihaly
- MMO Communities Tom Hunter
- MMO Communities zgj22@drexel.edu
- MMO Communities Tom Hunter
- MMO Communities (keywords: commercial influence) Eric Random
- MMO Communities Brad McQuaid
- MMO Communities Michael Hartman
- MMO Communities Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMO Communities Paul Schwanz
- MMO Communities Michael Hartman
- MMO Communities Paul Schwanz
- MMO Communities Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities HRose
- MMO Communities Freeman, Jeff
- MMO Communities Michael Sellers
- MMO Communities HRose
- MMO Communities Freeman, Jeff
- MMO Communities HRose
- MMO Communities Morgan Dodge
- MMO Communities Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMO Communities Freeman, Jeff
- [DGN] Socialization against the fun Eric Random
- MMO Communities Koster, Raph
- MMO Communities Michael Sellers
- MMO Communities Yannick Jean
- MMO Communities Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- What is an MMOG? (was: MMO Communities) ceo