July 2004
- [News] Ultima X: Odyssey cancelled Luca Girardo
- [News] Ultima X: Odyssey cancelled Steven King
- [News] Ultima X: Odyssey cancelled Luca Girardo
- [News] Ultima X: Odyssey cancelled David Kennerly
- [News] Ultima X: Odyssey cancelled Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Threshold RPG
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Par Winzell
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Threshold RPG
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Dana V. Baldwin
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Mark Mensch
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Luca Girardo
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Dana V. Baldwin
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Threshold RPG
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Adam Burr
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Scott Macmillan
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Douglas Goodall
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Sean Howard
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Amanda Walker
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Scott Macmillan
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Sean Howard
- CoH Michael Hartman
- CoH Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Ryan Shwayder
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? cruise
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Oliver Smith
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Oliver Smith
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Byron Ellacott
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Koster, Raph
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Brad McQuaid
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Douglas Goodall
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Dana V. Baldwin
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Douglas Goodall
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Zach Collins (Siege)
- Instancing (was: MMORPG Cancellations...) Douglas Goodall
- Instancing ceo
- Instancing Douglas Goodall
- Instancing ceo
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Oliver Smith
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- Depth (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Damion Schubert
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Sean Howard
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Ghilardi Filippo
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Michael Hartman
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Michael Sellers
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Paul McInnes
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Andres Ferraro
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Ryan Shwayder
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Mark Mensch
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Mark Mensch
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Derek Licciardi
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Erik Bethke
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The skyis falling?) Koster, Raph
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The skyis falling?) Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky isfalling?) Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) Derek Licciardi
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Theskyisfalling?) Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) John MacQueen
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky isfalling?) Aaron Switzer
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: Thesky isfalling?) Aaron Switzer
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Thesky isfalling?) Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Thesky isfalling?) Aaron Switzer
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Koster, Raph
- MMO Communities (was MMORPGCancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Sean Howard
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) ceo
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Paul Schwanz
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Paul Schwanz
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities (was [MUD-Dev]MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Matt Mihaly
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) John Arras
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) John Arras
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) cruise
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) John Arras
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) Peter Keeler
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) Otis Viles
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) Malcolm W. Tester II
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) Matt Mihaly
- MMO Simulations (was MMO Communities) cruise
- MMO Communities (was [MUD-Dev] MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Paul Schwanz
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Zach Collins (Siege)
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Paolo Piselli
- forced grouping/coop play Tamzen Cannoy
- forced grouping/coop play Koster, Raph
- forced grouping/coop play Sean Kelly
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Andrew L. Tepper
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) HRose
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Douglas Goodall
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) HRose
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Byron Ellacott
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) HRose
- What is an MMOG? (was: MMO Communities) ceo
- What is an MMOG? (was: MMO Communities) HRose
- What is an MMOG? ceo
- What is an MMOG? HRose
- What is an MMOG? Dana V. Baldwin
- What is an MMOG? HRose
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) HRose
- MMO Communities Eric Random
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky isfalling?) Paul Schwanz
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) J C Lawrence
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMO Communities (was MMORPG Cancellations: The skyis falling?) Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? ceo
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Tom "cro" Gordon
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Thomas Tomiczek
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Douglas Goodall
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Koster, Raph
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Scott Jennings
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Steven King
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? David Kennerly
- Words (WAS: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Zach Collins (Siege)
- Words (WAS: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) kennerly@finegamedesign.com
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? zgj22@drexel.edu
- Is space deep? (was MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) David Kennerly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Tony Hoyt
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Damion Schubert
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Samantha LeCraft
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Sean Howard
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Samantha LeCraft
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Matt Mihaly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Oliver Smith
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Damion Schubert
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? J C Lawrence
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? David Kennerly
- MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling? Michael Sellers
- Sun Game Server Technology Chat Artur Biesiadowski
- Quick Hello Mark Mensch
- Virtual/Real Currencies (was: [MUD-Dev][NEWS]GamingOpenMarket) Jon A. Lambert
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Alex Chacha
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Matt Mihaly
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Russ Whiteman
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Mike Rozak
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Douglas Goodall
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Mike Rozak
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Byron Ellacott
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Mike Rozak
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Byron Ellacott
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Yannick Jean
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Otis Viles
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Mike Rozak
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Erik Bethke
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) dienw
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) J C Lawrence
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) J C Lawrence
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Erik Bethke
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Erik Bethke
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Sean Howard
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Michael Hartman
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Erik Bethke
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Michael Hartman
- CoH and others (was Cancellations: ...) Luca Girardo
- CoH and others Alex Chacha
- CoH and others Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- CoH and others David Eckelberry
- CoH and others Vincent Archer
- COH and others Alex Chacha
- COH and others Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- COH and others Alex Chacha
- Revenues Rafael Seabra
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Koster, Raph
- CoH (was: MMORPG Cancellations: The sky is falling?) Damion Schubert
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Ghilardi Filippo
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Mike Rozak
- [MUD-Dev]: Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Luca Girardo
- Virtual/Real Currencies Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Koster, Raph
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Derek Licciardi
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Indie MMOG's Rob C
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Rob C
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Rob C
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Michael Sellers
- Indie MMOG's Michael Sellers
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Matt Mihaly
- Indie MMOG's Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Indie MMOG's Matt Mihaly
- Indie MMOG's Amanda Walker
- Indie MMOG's Jon A. Lambert
- Indie MMOG's Zach Collins (Siege)
- Indie MMOG's Amanda Walker
- Indie MMOG's Derek Licciardi
- Indie MMOG's ceo
- Indie MMOG's Matt Mihaly
- Indie MMOG's Mike Rozak
- Indie MMOG's Scott Jennings
- Indie MMOG's Mike Rozak
- Indie MMOG's Tiago Carita
- Indie MMOG's Matt Mihaly
- Indie MMOG's Derek Licciardi
- Indie MMOG's Matt Mihaly
- Online vs Offline (was CoH and others) Mike Rozak
- Security and cheating in MMOs jmbroyer
- [NEWS] Artifact Entertainment going bankrupt? Luca Girardo
- MEDIA: Multiplayer Gaming's Quiet Revolution J C Lawrence
- DarkGalaxy Tiago Carita
- (no subject) Ghilardi Filippo
- Community? Erik Bethke
- Community? Scott Jennings
- Community? Paul Schwanz
- Community? Brian Thyer
- Community? Sean Howard
- Community? Zach Collins (Siege)
- Community? (Level Grind) Brian Thyer
- Community? (Level Grind) Sean Howard
- Community? (Level Grind) Damion Schubert
- Community? (Level Grind) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Community? (Level Grind) Malcolm W. Tester II
- Community? (Level Grind) Victor Wachter
- Community? (Level Grind) Douglas Goodall
- Community? (Level Grind) Matt Mihaly
- Community? (Level Grind) Ghilardi Filippo
- Community? (Level Grind) HRose
- Community? (Level Grind) Douglas Goodall
- Community? (Level Grind) Ghilardi Filippo
- Community? (Level Grind) Samurai Cat!
- Scalabity in MMOG's Rafael Seabra
- Level Grind - alternative Brendan O'Brien
- Level Grind - alternative darksuit
- Level Grind - alternative Brendan O'Brien
- Level Grind - alternative cruise
- Level Grind - alternative Brendan O'Brien
- Level Grind - alternative cruise
- Level Grind - alternative Brendan O'Brien
- Level Grind - alternative Corey Cauble
- Level Grind - alternative Sean Howard
- Level Grind - alternative Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Better Combat cruise
- Better Combat Ghilardi Filippo
- Better Combat cruise
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat Amanda Walker
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat cruise
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Yannick Jean
- Better Combat Koster, Raph
- Better Combat HRose
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Communication [was: Better Combat] cruise
- Better Communication [was: Better Combat] Michael Hartman
- Better Communication [was: Better Combat] cruise
- Better Communication [was: Better Combat] Koster, Raph
- Better Communication [was: Better Combat] Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Paul Schwanz
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat Darkwolf
- Better Combat Dana V. Baldwin
- Better Combat Matt Mihaly
- Better Combat Koster, Raph
- Better Combat Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Better Combat HRose
- Better Combat Steven King
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Paolo Piselli
- Better Combat Zach Collins (Siege)
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat HRose
- Better Combat Koster, Raph
- Better Combat HRose
- Better Combat (keywords: downtime, socialization, UI) Eric Random
- Better Combat Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Better Combat Amanda Walker
- Better Combat Yannick Jean
- Better Combat Yannick Jean
- Better Combat Tom "cro" Gordon
- Better Combat Alex Arnon
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Douglas Goodall
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Dana V. Baldwin
- Better Combat Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Dana V. Baldwin
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Derek Larson
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Derek Larson
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat cruise
- Cognitively Interesting Combat ceo
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Byron Ellacott
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Ben Hawes
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Ben Hawes
- Cognitively Interesting Combat KaVir@t-online.de (Richard Woolcock)
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Mike Rozak
- Cognitively Interesting Combat
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Zach Collins (Siege)
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Peter A. Harkins
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) cruise
- Better Combat Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [DGN] Designed Downtime (was Better Combat) David Kennerly
- [DGN] Designed Downtime (was Better Combat) Ryan Shwayder
- [DGN] Designed Downtime (was Better Combat) Ryan Shwayder
- [DGN] Designed Downtime (was Better Combat) Michael Hartman
- Better Combat Alex Arnon
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat John Buehler
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] cruise
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] John Buehler
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] Matt Mihaly
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] Otis Viles
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] Ben Hawes
- Long-Term Rewards [was: Better Combat] John Buehler
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar [was: Long-Term Rewards] Michael Hartman
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar [was:Long-Term Rewards] Vladimir Cole
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar Corey Crawford
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar Byron Ellacott
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar Vladimir Cole
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPG avatar Mark Mensch
- Better Combat Brendan O'Brien
cruise wrote:
> This thread is a spawn of the Level Grind discusssion. However you
> look at it, the overwhelming majority of MMOG's use combat as the
> primary means of advancement. Yet for the most part, combat is a
> matter of typing <kill rat> or clicking on a mob with your mouse.
> The most entertaining combats are those which take a long time,
> which require every bit of ingenuity to emerge triumphant. So why
> do most games require several thousand odd mobs to be slain for
> the higher levels? Replacing 1000 easy fights with 5 or 10 hard
> fights could produce the same levelling rate, with a much greater
> entertainment value.
> Or would it? This could be done, simply, by increasing HP by
> x100. But that doesn't make it any more entertaining than killing
> 100 basic mobs. The fight is harder, as you have to survive longer
> without a break, but it's still just a time sink. What is the
> fundemental difference between combat that is fun, and combat that
> is trivial, apart from time?
I think you are hitting the majority of my issues with the current
combat systems pretty squarely here. I'm going to focus primarily
on melee combat, since it is by far the most lacking in the majority
of games I have played. Watching melees fight in most any MMOG is
really quite silly. I really do think they look like lumberjacks
now, chopping away at a foe until they have done enough damage to
knock it down. There's little to no play back and forth between
fighters. Instead, they both keep swinging away to see who can do
more damage faster.
> It seems obvious to me that the actual player skill required is
> the determining factor. Or at least /a/ determining factor. FPS
> deathmatch style twitch gameplay is obviously impractical for the
> moment, but a more strategic version of combat seems possible.
> Puzzle Pirates' success seems based around this concept. It
> obviously is attractive to players. So why don't we see more of
> it? Complexity I presume is one answer - trying to keep the game
> intuitive and easily understood. I'd argue easy-to-play and
> complex are not mutually exclusive however. So what ways could
> depth be added to combat?
Again, I have to agree with you. I was amazed when I actually
played Puzzle Pirates and saw the way they handled combat. I had
not been expecting a game based around puzzles to have one of the
better combat systems out there. Sure, it doesn't present itself as
a visually appealing 3d motion graphics, but the players really do
get to use their skills in every fight. I doubt most large MMOG's
would want to break away from their pretty graphics to some
arbitrary puzzle to resolve conflicts, but the concept is still
sound. Combat needs to involve players countering the moves of
their opponents, finding and exploiting their weaknesses as the
fight goes on.
What I would like to see is a system where instead of constantly
hitting your opponent for 15 damage each swing until he dies, the
whole point of combat becomes a match to try to land a hitting blow.
I think when most of us picture two master swordsmen going after
each other in a fight, the last thing we expect to see is them
standing there, slugging it out toe to toe like the end of a "Rocky"
movie. Instead, I envision the fighters parrying and dodging most
attacks, using their skill, speed, and strength to find a way
through the other's defenses. It should be a much more fluid
combat, making use of obstacles and other warriors around them.
For what I envision, warriors would have a variety of moves they
have learned over time (though there should be enough of a selection
with limits on how much each character can learn, so that you do not
know exactly what a given opponent will be able to use against you
every fight). For example, you could have an overhead slash
maneuver, designed to raise an opponent's defenses and make use of
superior strength over a weaker foe. As a result, this move could
be used to finish off someone too tired, slow, or weak, to get their
defenses up in time (more likely at the end of a drawn out fight),
or to manipulate and fatigue your opponent to make it easier to find
a future opening. In other words, I swing at you from an
advantageous posistion, having done a better job directing combat up
to this point. You manage to block the blow with your sword,
although my superior strength allows me to drive you back and tire
you out. You will need to come up with some way soon to swing the
fight back into your advantage before I break through your defenses.
Or, considering the same situation with a different possiblity,
perhaps you were merely using an ability you learned to feign
fatigue. Thinking I had you on the ropes, I risked the chance to
use this powerful move in an attempt to seal your fate. However, as
my swing comes down, your follow-up on the feign skill was a
side-step swipe, allowing you to dodge quickly to the side and slash
at my flank. Feeling the bite of your blade on my side, I would be
weakened and hurt, resulting in sloppier fighting techniques, loss
of strength, and increased fatigue. The severity of the blow
(determined by a multitude of factors, including random luck) will
determine how bad of a situation I am in, having fallen into your
trap.
Hopefully, this concept is making sense, as I have been toying
around with it in my mind for a very long time, but had yet to
actually set it to paper. This is a fairly simplified example, but
it should be enough to get the general idea across.
Now, another aspect I would like to include is a type of
aggressiveness rating to tie in with the moves made during combat.
What this entails could be as simple as a 1-5 rating determining how
aggressive your character will be with a given move. In other
words, if I really thought I had you close to death, I could go all
out with my attack, leaving myself very exposed but much more likely
to break through your defenses if I can land the attack. Or, if I
am more worried about a counter-attack, perhaps I will be a bit more
conservative in my selection, as there is no need to let my
advantage slip away so soon.
Things get much more complicated when dealing with multiple
attackers, but I still feel this would be a lot of fun. A superior
fighter facing two foes would still be able to win, but he would
need to fight intelligently, using moves more suitable against
multiple opponents. His attackers would also have many different
options available to them. They could risk being more aggressive,
hoping that the partner would keep the warrior from retaliating, or
they could try for a longer fight, knowing that the single warrior
is likely to tire faster against multplie foes.
This is certainly a complex system when taken as a whole, and a lot
of testing would be required to balance the various combat moves.
However, I honestly believe it is worth it in the long run. I think
most players are dying for challenges in a game (such as combat) to
make use of skill and strategy.
For mages, there are already several decent examples that can be
found in previous games. They key is to have the majority of spells
be about controlling the situation and the environment around you,
instead of being all about damage. Otherwise, it tends to boil down
to a very short combat with the first one to get a spell off being
the victor. One of the best PvP games I ever played was actually
the original NWN on AOL, where the PvP was an accidental development
that came about because of the ways spells were handled. The combat
was turn-based, and it was all about controlling the envirnment to
force your opponent into a bad situation (i.e. a spot where you
could trap him with a cloud spell, or bounce a lightning bolt off of
a wall to hit him twice). It was actually a fairly simple system,
in that virtually all characters were the same and there were a
small number of spells. Of course, the different spells were
actually *different*, not just enhanced versions of former spells.
What made the fight enjoyable was the simple fact that strategy
actually mattered. Good players with a lot of experience were very
hard to beat, but they had no insurmountable advantage over the
newer players.
For any type of combat, the basic idea tends to be the same. Every
fight should feel a lot more like a chess match, and a lot less like
chopping down trees. Just because you don't want the game to be a
fast-paced twitch fest, doesn't mean you need to take player skill
out of the equation.
One more thing I thought of while writing this... I think a lot of
games today are trying too hard to force diversity among characters,
without considering the effect this can have on their options in
combat. If the result creates very specialized characters, such
that player A can do one thing, player B does another, and player C
has his own niche too, it seems like a healthy system to encourage
grouping. However, if the only thing player A can do is that one
thing, and it essentially comes down the hitting one or 2 buttons
over and over, how fun is that? You might be able to get some
strategy at a group level, but the options presented to an
individual player are really quite limited. Some of the best games
I've played for PvP combat ended up with some very boring character
templates, but the templates had such a variety of tools at their
disposal that each player could use them differently. While on the
one hand it is boring to have a world where everyone is the same, on
the other hand, the combat is a lot more fun when you have more
options to work with. I'm sure there is a better balance in the
middle, and one day I hope we find it. I merely wanted to point out
that diverse characters can also be a negative thing if you don't
give each character enough variety of options to work with.
> Of course, though combat is the major activity addressed, these
> questions and answers can (and should) be applied to all
> skill-based activity - constructing one hundred swords is no less
> mind-numbing that slaying one hundred orcs, without some kind of
> depth to the process.
Agreed. I've often thought that some of the puzzles from Puzzle
Pirates would have also made decent methods to use in a crafting
system. The carpentry one in particular seemed like it could have
been a natural fit for a smith to make products with. Heck,
anything has to be more fun than what we are faced with in a typical
game today.
- Brendan - Better Combat Zach Collins (Siege)
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Brendan O'Brien
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat cruise
- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Byron Ellacott
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- Better Combat David Kennerly
- Better Combat Byron Ellacott
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- Better Combat (long) Douglas Goodall
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- Better Combat (long) David Kennerly
- Creating a Player Narrative Ben Hawes
- Creating a Player Narrative Douglas Goodall
- Creating a Player Narrative Tim Schubert
- Creating a Player Narrative Dana V. Baldwin
- Creating a Player Narrative John MacQueen
- Better Combat (long) Matt Monaghan
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- Better Combat (long) Zach Collins (Siege)
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- Better Combat (long) Zach Collins (Siege)
- Better Combat (long) Paul Schwanz
- Better Combat (long) David Kennerly
- Better Combat (long) Ben Hawes
- Better Combat Byron Ellacott
- Better Combat cruise
- Better Combat Brendan O'Brien
- Better Combat Dana V. Baldwin
- Better Combat Byron Ellacott
- Level Grind - alternative Sean Kelly
- Level Grind - alternative Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Level Grind - alternative Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Level Grind - alternative Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- [mudlist] MMO Communities (was [MUD-Dev] MMORPG Cancellations:Theskyisfalling?) Morgan Dodge
- New combat system Cameron Zemek
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- What is an MMOG? (was: MMO Communities) ceo