April 2004

• [BIZ] Playas Pay to Spread the Luv Michael Tresca
• Mogi from Newtgames Olivier Lejade
• Client side simulation dienw
• • Client side simulation Nate Combs {Home}
  • • Client side simulation Thomas Tomiczek
  • Client side simulation Amanda Walker
  • Client side simulation Artur Biesiadowski
  • Client side simulation Byron Ellacott
• [Devops] Initial meoww cleanup J C Lawrence
• Middleware (was Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (thefirstone :)) Michael Sellers
• • Middleware (was Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (thefirstone :)) Tess Snider
  • • Middleware (was Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (thefirstone :)) Amanda Walker
  • Middleware (was Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10Reasons (thefirstone :)) Derek Licciardi
• Announcement: Community Work Symposium - May 21 T.L. Taylor
• Middleware ceo
• [NEWS] Final Fantasy XI debut on PS2 in US kennerly@sfsu.edu
• Random Placename Generation Matt Chatterley
• • Random Placename Generation Joshua Hughes
  • Random Placename Generation Ben Hawes
  • • Random Placename Generation Matt Chatterley
  • Random Placename Generation Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
• Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (thefirstone :)) Mike Rozak
• Middleware Luca Girardo
• Habitat Redux Mirjam Eladhari
• MUD-Dev Convention Report David Kennerly
• Licensed setting MMOGs Matt Mihaly
• • Licensed setting MMOGs Michael Sellers
  • Licensed setting MMOGs Matt Mihaly
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Matt Mihaly
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
• Player Justice Freeman, Jeff
• Licensed setting MMOGs Taylor Daynes
• Licensed setting MMOGs Christopher Allen
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
• Dangers of Middleware Mike Rozak
• Licensed setting MMOGs Christopher Allen
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Matt Mihaly
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Amanda Walker
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
  • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Marian Griffith
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
    • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Douglas Goodall
    • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Eric Random
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Matt Mihaly
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
    • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Stone, Jason
      • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Douglas Goodall
• Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (the firstone:)) Thomas Tomiczek
• • Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (thefirstone:)) David Kennerly
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Matt Mihaly
  • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! J C Lawrence
  • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John MacQueen
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Brian Hook
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Travis Casey
  • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Brian Hook
    • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
      • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Kevin N Shallow
• Paranoia Ragnar Lonn
• Player Justice Amanda Walker
• • Player Justice Paul Schwanz
• Less constrained environments Chris Duesing
• • Less constrained environments John MacQueen
• MMOG money-making clients ceo
• • MMOG money-making clients Koster, Raph
  • MMOG money-making clients Valerio Santinelli
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Otis Viles
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Paul Schwanz
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Paolo Piselli
    • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Otis Viles
      • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Amanda Walker
      • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Vincent Archer
        • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
          • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Thomas Tomiczek
            • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Steven King
          • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
          • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Vincent Archer
            • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! J C Lawrence
        • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Brian Miller
        • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
          • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Chris Duesing
      • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Paul Schwanz
      • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Paolo Piselli
        • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Amanda Walker
      • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Matt Mihaly
      • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! baar@imperian.com
• Middleware (was Sun's Sim Server andGordon's10Reasons (thefirstone :)) Matt Chatterley
• MudDev FAQ - part 2 Marian Griffith
• Gay Characters in Videogames Michael Tresca
• • Gay Characters in Videogames Tess Snider
  • • Gay Characters in Videogames Darksuit
  • Gay Characters in Videogames Matt Mihaly
  • • Gay Characters in Videogames Michael Tresca
    • • Gay Characters in Videogames Jon A. Lambert
      • • Gay Characters in Videogames matt@ironrealms.com
  • Gay Characters in Videogames Douglas Goodall
• MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 10 kihyun {GTA Interactive}
• Player Justice Freeman, Jeff
• • Player Justice Paul Schwanz
• Licensed setting MMOGs Ian McDonald
• • Licensed setting MMOGs Christopher Allen
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Ryan S. Dancey
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Otis Viles
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! baar@imperian.com
  • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! J C Lawrence
• R: [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Ghilardi Filippo
• [BoardGameDesign] Fog of War (to Robert & dr1010xltd) (fwd) J C Lawrence
• Online economies was [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Brian Hook
• PvP vs. PvE was [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Brian Hook
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Eric Random
• Kaczynski's Law Freeman, Jeff
• • Kaczynski's Law Michael Sellers
  • • Kaczynski's Law Freeman, Jeff
    • • Kaczynski's Law Michael Sellers
      • • Kaczynski's Law Jon A. Lambert
        • Kaczynski's Law jfreeman@soe.sony.com
        • • Kaczynski's Law Robert Flesch
          • • Kaczynski's Law Freeman, Jeff
            • Kaczynski's Law Freeman, Jeff
    • Kaczynski's Law J C Lawrence
    • Kaczynski's Law Mike Rozak
    • • Kaczynski's Law Michael Sellers
  • Kaczynski's Law cruise
  • Kaczynski's Law Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • Kaczynski's Law Mike Rozak
• Playing catch-up with levels [WAS Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy!] Byron Ellacott
• • Playing catch-up with levels [WAS Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy!] Steven King
• PvP vs. PvE Rob C
• notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC Mirjam Eladhari
• • notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC matt@ironrealms.com
  • notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC Luca Girardo
  • • notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC Jonas Heide Smith
  • notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC Ren Reynolds
  • notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC Brian 'Psychochild' Green
• Playing catch-up with levels Byron Ellacott
• • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
  • • Playing catch-up with levels Craig Huber
    • • Playing catch-up with levels Michael Sellers
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
      • Playing catch-up with levels Ben Hawes
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
        • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
          • Playing catch-up with levels Hulbert, Leland
        • Playing catch-up with levels John Arras
        • Playing catch-up with levels jfreeman@soe.sony.com
        • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Chatterley
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
            • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Chatterley
              • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
          • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Mihaly
          • Playing catch-up with levels Vincent Archer
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
            • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
            • • Playing catch-up with levels Stephen Routledge
              • • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
            • Playing catch-up with levels Lars Duening
            • Playing catch-up with levels ext.Christer.Enfors@tietoenator.com
            • • Playing catch-up with levels Vincent Archer
              • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
                • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
                • Playing catch-up with levels ext.Christer.Enfors@tietoenator.com
                • Playing catch-up with levels Eli Stevens {WG.c}
          • Playing catch-up with levels Zach Collins {Siege}
          • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
            • • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
              • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
                • • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
                  • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
                  • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
                    • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
                      • • Playing catch-up with levels Jason Downs
                • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
                • • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
                  • • Playing catch-up with levels Steven King
                    • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
                    • • Playing catch-up with levels Chris Duesing
                      • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
                    • Playing catch-up with levels Travis Nixon
                • Playing catch-up with levels Steven King
                • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
                  • Playing catch-up with levels Travis Nixon
                  • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
                  • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
                    • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
                  • Playing catch-up with levels Douglas Goodall
                  • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
                    • • Playing catch-up with levels Douglas Goodall
                      • Playing catch-up with levels Harrok
          • Playing catch-up with levels Valerio Santinelli
        • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
        • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
      • Playing catch-up with levels Jeff Fuller
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Craig Huber
      • Playing catch-up with levels Jeff
      • Playing catch-up with levels Byron Ellacott
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Craig Huber
        • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
      • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
    • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
    • • Playing catch-up with levels Zach Collins {Siege}
• DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
• • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Edward Glowacki
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency baar@imperian.com
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Ian McDonald
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency baar@imperian.com
    • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Pileborg Joachim - FMT
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Paul Schwanz
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Matt Chatterley
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
    • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
      • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
        • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
          • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
            • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
              • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
                • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
              • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Matt Chatterley
              • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
                • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
                  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Matt Chatterley
            • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Douglas Goodall
          • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Paul Schwanz
          • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
          • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
            • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency sziisoft
            • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency cruise
              • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Steven King
                • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Matt Chatterley
            • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Douglas Goodall
            • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
              • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Douglas Goodall
                • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
                • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency baar@imperian.com
                • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Eric Random
            • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Adam Helps
          • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Eric Random
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Brian Thyer
    I snipped this up a bit, basically just taking out the points and
    sections where I had something to talk about.
    
    From: Freeman, Jeff
    
    > But I thought about the tracking we're doing and how we're
    > overlooking some drains (banned, cancelled and inactive accounts
    > chief among them), along with 'sponges' which don't have a
    > real-world parallel, I don't think.
    
    By "sponges" do you simply mean a person who hoards money? Just
    want to make sure =) There are some real world parallels, being
    people who throw their money into the mattress. I don't know any
    myself, but if you watch movies like Matchstick Men, where Nicholas
    Cage keeps his money either in that Dog safe in his house, or in a
    safety deposit box. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there
    who distrust banks in the real world that do this.
    
    > What I think would be more useful to us would be to track economic
    > activity. My thinking here is that money changing hands
    > frequently is the sign of a healthy economy, whereas a lack of
    > economic activity is the sign of a weak economy.
    
    I think this can be true, but not always. Just because there isn't
    a lot of economic activity doesn't mean the economy is weak, and
    just because there's a lot doesn't mean it's healthy. What you're
    looking for is the right balance. Too much activity could be the
    sign of an impending hyper inflation, and too little activity could
    be the economy recovering from over inflated prices.
    
    > I think anything which stymies economic activity is bad, and
    > either extreme of inflation (too much or too little) would result
    > in fewer transactions and a 'weak economy'. Not because the high
    > rate of inflation has made money 'worth less', but because a high
    > rate of inflation creates a lot of 'inactive money' relative to
    > the amount of active money in the system. That is, it's not so
    > much that it's worth less that's the problem, but that it is
    > un-used (could be due to inflation, I think there are other
    > reasons why money would go un-used, too).
    
    I'm not sure on this point, I may need an example to see it? My
    thinking would be that extreme inflation would cause less inactive
    money, not more. If you're in an inflationary economy I would think
    you would be more likely to spend your money early and often because
    if you wait, the item you're trying to buy is only going to be
    *more* expensive. Rather, I would think inflation would cause the
    opposite, less stagnant money.
    
    > In order to properly track their economy, we need to monitor
    > transactions in both number and amount. I would consider money-in
    > and money-out as a transaction, but player-to-player transactions
    > ought to be of primary importance in a player-driven economy. If
    > it's not a player-driven economy, then tracking money-in and
    > money-out does cover all the bases: But not for the usual reasons.
    > Rather, it is because those are the only transactions the game
    > has.
    
    I would agree here except for one thing. In a non player driven
    economy, can't you still have player trade? Or are you talking
    about an economy where you totally do away with players ability to
    trade?
    
    > Now, where I'm stuck here is with the idea of developing a
    > 'healthy ratio' of available money to active money. i.e. in the
    > real world there's a 1:1 ration, all the money which is available
    > is actively being used (or nearly all of it - people do hoard
    > coins, I guess). In the game world the ratio is much, much lower,
    > particularly when we consider money attached to inactive accounts
    > to still be "in the system".
    
    > So, we need better tracking mechanisms to separate that out - to
    > say "this money isn't in the system, so we don't care about it".
    > Whereas money in a person's bank account ought to be considered
    > 'available'. Perhaps we take the lowest amount of money in their
    > bank for the month and say "That money was inactive this month".
    > For example if a person had 100 credits at the start of the month
    > and their bank never dropped below 50 credits, then we can say
    > that 50 credits was inactive. If next month they start with 1000
    > credits and their balance never drops below 900 credits, then we
    > say that 900 credits was inactive. Also, we can see that they
    > converted 850 credits from active to inactive.
    
    How important is it to monitor how much money is being
    saved/hoarded? I'm asking not because I agree, but because I want
    to know. Player A has a constant minimum of 40 credits in his bank
    account per month where as Player B has a constant minimum of 150 in
    his bank account. Player B, therefore, has the higher purchasing
    power, right? But if he's averaging a minimum of 150 that means he
    never spends it, and if the other player is averaging a minimum of
    40, they never spend it. So isn't their base the same? I mean,
    Player A could spend 1,000 credits a month because they make more
    per month where as Player B only spends 100 because he doesn't make
    that much. I'm setting myself up for a point later on here.
    
    > For that matter, forget 'banks', because just carrying around the
    > money on-hand doesn't make it active...
    
    > So, the problem I see is determining what impact active/inactive
    > money has on a) the individual and b) everyone else. My 100
    > million credit friend has a huge bank balance, her account is
    > active, but most of that money is not active. She trades in about
    > 25 million credits per week (with an average of +10 million to her
    > favor). So right now there's maybe 90 million 'inactive' credits
    > there, and next week there'll be 100 million inactive credits.
    > Her balance may drop to 90 million some time this month, but it'll
    > be back up to about 140 million by the end of the month... And
    > next month instead of 90 million inactive credits, there'll be 130
    > million. She's unlikely to gift her balance to another player
    > when she quits the game, but even if she did, it would be inactive
    > money moving from her to them, and the bulk of it would likely
    > remain inactive.
    
    But that bulk of money *does* have the ability to become active. In
    my example, at the end of the month Player B has a higher purchasing
    potential than Player A. But that money does have potential. It's
    left circulation maybe, but not the economy. But wait, maybe that's
    what should define the economy?
    
    I guess that's the point here, how do you define your economy. Is
    the economy simply the demand and supply of goods? Or is it the
    wealth and relative buying power of the players? If it's simply the
    demand and supply of goods, then when a player sits on 40, 150, or
    90 million credits per month, you could deem that cash to be out of
    the economy. But if you judge your economy to be the wealth and
    buying power of your players, I don't think you can discount the
    credits they don't spend per month, even if they continue to not
    spend them.
    
    <snip the rest>
    
    In the real world we have interest rates. Interest rates are how
    the Fed monitors and controls this problem. If they see
    inflationary tendencies in the market they tend to raise the
    interest rate. A higher interest rate tends to discourage people
    from spending their money (as it tends to raise loan interest rates
    and credit card interest rates) and encourage them to save or invest
    it. Technically, you're only saving your money if you're putting it
    in your mattress. You're investing it if you put it in the bank,
    even if you have a 0 interest rate bank account (because, as was
    pointed out, the bank recirculates it). Whereas lower interest
    rates encourage people to stop saving and investing their money and
    to spend it. Japan did this in the summer of '99 after the Asian
    Market Crash by going to a 0% interest rate to encourage money to
    flow in the economy. The US has been doing it over the past few
    years to encourage people to spend after the Bubble Burst of '01.
    
    The best fix, I think, is to institute an interest rate system for
    the banks in a MMO. Unfortunately, this isn't always feasible for
    any number of reasons (one of which being how that idea fits the
    theme/genre of the game). I don't think anyone would disagree with
    me that it would be odd to get interest on your Platinum from the
    magical banks of Everquest, for example.
    
    What you do from here, I think, is decide what kind of economy you
    want to focus on. Straight up supply and demand (which is, of
    course, the center of any economy anyway), or one more player
    orientated dealing with the relative player wealth and buying power.
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Castronova, Edward
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Eric Random
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Alistair Milne
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
    • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
      • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
        • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Kirinyaga
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
    • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency brian@thyer.net
      • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Kirinyaga
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Arkitan Plu
• Story Generators Douglas Goodall
• ADMIN Changes to the list page J C Lawrence
• MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 19 Chanur Silvarian
• Playing catch-up with levels Jeremy Gaffney
• MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 19 Threshold RPG
• Bringing in friends Pat Ditterline
• • Bringing in friends Amanda Walker
• [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... ceo
• • [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... Freeman, Jeff
  • [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... Eli Stevens {WG.c}
  • [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... Sean Howard
  • [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... Mike Rozak
  • [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... Nathan Yospe
• Playing catch-up with levels Steven King
• • Playing catch-up with levels Byron Ellacott
• Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
• MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 23 Alex Chacha
• Playing catch-up with levels Sean Howard
• • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
  • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Mihaly
    • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Mihaly
        • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Mihaly
        • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
        • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
    • Playing catch-up with levels Sean Howard
    • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Sean Howard
        • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Mihaly
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Ola Fosheim Grøstad
          • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
  • Playing catch-up with levels Zach Collins {Siege}
  • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
  • • Playing catch-up with levels Sean Howard
    • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Sean Howard
        • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
          • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler