April 2004

• [BIZ] Playas Pay to Spread the Luv Michael Tresca
• Mogi from Newtgames Olivier Lejade
• Client side simulation dienw
• • Client side simulation Nate Combs {Home}
  • • Client side simulation Thomas Tomiczek
  • Client side simulation Amanda Walker
  • Client side simulation Artur Biesiadowski
  • Client side simulation Byron Ellacott
• [Devops] Initial meoww cleanup J C Lawrence
• Middleware (was Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (thefirstone :)) Michael Sellers
• • Middleware (was Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (thefirstone :)) Tess Snider
  • • Middleware (was Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (thefirstone :)) Amanda Walker
  • Middleware (was Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10Reasons (thefirstone :)) Derek Licciardi
• Announcement: Community Work Symposium - May 21 T.L. Taylor
• Middleware ceo
• [NEWS] Final Fantasy XI debut on PS2 in US kennerly@sfsu.edu
• Random Placename Generation Matt Chatterley
• • Random Placename Generation Joshua Hughes
  • Random Placename Generation Ben Hawes
  • • Random Placename Generation Matt Chatterley
  • Random Placename Generation Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
• Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (thefirstone :)) Mike Rozak
• Middleware Luca Girardo
• Habitat Redux Mirjam Eladhari
• MUD-Dev Convention Report David Kennerly
• Licensed setting MMOGs Matt Mihaly
• • Licensed setting MMOGs Michael Sellers
  • Licensed setting MMOGs Matt Mihaly
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Matt Mihaly
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
• Player Justice Freeman, Jeff
• Licensed setting MMOGs Taylor Daynes
• Licensed setting MMOGs Christopher Allen
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
• Dangers of Middleware Mike Rozak
• Licensed setting MMOGs Christopher Allen
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Matt Mihaly
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Amanda Walker
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
  • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Marian Griffith
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
    • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Douglas Goodall
      At 03:02 PM 4/11/2004 +0100, Marian wrote:
      
      > However there is an even more insidious and potentially more
      > serious problem: inflation.
      
      > In fact there are three kinds of inflation involved, though they
      > are largely caused by flaws in the game design of many games.
      
      > First of all there is the inflation of character power. This
      > happens when low level characters get equipment that is meant for
      > higher levels. This will normally occur in a game (unless it is
      > actively restricted somehow), but the ability to buy items will
      > increase it. The resulting problems are that low level players are
      > racing through the game and both make balancing impossible and
      > likely take away content (monsters to kill) from other players who
      > do not have twinked equip ment. The other problem is that such
      > players remove themselves from the intended areas for their
      > 'age'. This means that those who do not buy/get gifted high level
      > gear are left behind in mostly empty zones that they can see
      > others race through. It diminishes their experience and likely
      > fosters resentment
      
      This can be reduced (though never removed) with level or skill
      requirements. I prefer skill requirements, as they allow a degree of
      twinking, but not an excessive degree if the requirements are
      reasonable (and if buffing items also have skill/level requirements
      and buffs themselves have skill/level requirements for the target).
      
      (Although a system that had a level cap for how much a skill could
      be buffed might make low-level twinking more fair... If a high level
      buff can raise a level 100 player's skill by 100 points, but when
      cast on a level 10 player it can raise the skill only 10 points and
      does not stack with items or other buffs, then low-level characters
      would not need an inventory full of buffing items to compete. A
      common buff would fill the buffing limit and more complex strategies
      (multiple stacking buffs and +skill items) would be limited to the
      high-end game.)
      
      This can also be reduced slightly with item decay. Players can't
      pass on old equipment if it's been ruined with use or time. But
      whether you want to reduce "hand me downs" is a matter of some
      debate. It does give players with friends or a large guild an
      advantage... But not allowing it could harm the community in that
      you've removed one possibility for kindness. Some players need help
      to advance or have no way of acquiring better gear on their
      own. Other players (such as myself) enjoy helping others more than
      personal advancement.
      
      > The second inflation is the straightforward monetary
      > inflation. Most games realise that players hate to lose their hard
      > earned equipment. Instead they leave all items in the game
      > indefinitely. They are, in other words, running with the money
      > press running full out. The predictable result is a rampant
      > inflation. In a real economy you would see prices go through the
      > roof, and starting players starve to death but in a game there is
      > a fixed price for which vendors will sell and buy for, and the
      > game economy will get increasingly skewed. The end result is
      > either tradeskills getting useless, or players needing an ever
      > increasing amount of game money to obtain worthwile items. They
      > likely will have to turn to game item and money sellers like IGE
      > to obtain the hundreds of thousands, then millions, then billions
      > of gold pieces to buy ordinary pieces of equipment. There is of
      > course a limit on this, namely the influx of 'free' items through
      > looting, and this brings us directly to the third form of
      > inflation.
      
      Item decay and strict money sinks are the only solutions I can see
      here. That, and making sure that there aren't any easy *sources* of
      in-game income like dupe bugs or diamond seal farming or mission
      blizting, etc. If there's a better solution, let me know. Players
      hate money sinks (and hate the consequences of not having money
      sinks, too, but those are not so obvious or ripe for forum
      complaints).
      
      > As the second form of inflation puts a downward pressure on the
      > value of items this causes an equal inflation in the real dollar
      > value of things. Both the companies selling things and the
      > players providing them must sell ever more items for less money,
      > or they must begin to control the production. Players whose income
      > depends on their ability to come up with a rare piece of armour,
      > or hundred thousand gold pieces, will need to bring in more and
      > more resources just to earn the same income. Or they will start
      > pushing out the competition This means that the less dedicated
      > (desperate) players will get forced off the content that is
      > profitable for the professional players. Game mechanics generally
      > make that easy to do, and hard to prevent. While there is no
      > indication that this is happening systematically there is the risk
      > that the professionals will start to control the market, both the
      > influx of valuable items and the real world value of the game
      > money that is needed. And if you can control both then you can
      > first make the player pay for the money, and then give the money
      > right back to you for the rare item the production of which you
      > also control. If, as the article claimed, 100000 players a year
      > are spending $100 on average then the 10 million income a year
      > will tempt any company and player to fix the market so the profit
      > is not going to diminish. This will lead to situations where
      > players who do not pay for equipment are locked out of it, and are
      > forced away from the content where they could find those items for
      > free.
      
      This is a result of what I call monopolization. The ability for a
      guild or high-level player (or IGE type group) to monopolize a
      resource and prevent other players from enjoying it. If a raid-class
      mob spawns only in one place and has a predictable spawn timer, it
      will almost always be monopolized. A lower level player that does
      not belong to an uberguild has no chance of acquiring the items
      (except, perhaps, through powerful friends or ebay).
      
      There are several solutions to this, and I'd personally suggest a
      combination of them. First, I'd spread loot around. Instead of
      giving a boss mob a .001% chance of dropping an item, I'd give the
      boss a 20-50% chance and nearby minions (or all mobs of the same
      type/mesh as the boss) a 1-5% chance. Second, I'd spread the mobs
      out more, making sure there were at least three camps which always
      had minions and the boss would spawn at another camp the instant it
      was killed (or a way of instancing the zone so that if more than a
      certain number of players tried to enter, the excess would get a new
      zone all to themselves, etc). Finally, I'd make sure that raid-class
      gear was desirable, but not necessary. Many players will struggle
      for, and feel rewarded by, minuscule or situational advantages. But
      if you make raid-class loot dominant (even weakly dominant) over all
      other items/strategies, it will be in excessively high demand as
      every player feels they *need* the item to compete.
      
      Only instancing (or "content on demand" as I believe it's called
      these days) would completely prevent monopolization, but it could be
      hard to add to an existing game. It also might not be what players
      really want. Shadowlands, for instance, added a bunch of static,
      non-instanced content to AO (which was about the only game that had
      an early form of content-on-demand with their mission system). The
      forums are full of complaints about camping, but AO allegedly has
      more subscribers now than ever before. EQ is even worse in terms of
      camping, but is more popular than AO (though, admittedly, perhaps
      not for that reason).
      
      So do players want camping? They seem to prefer sitting on their
      <ahem> in a full group and fighting deep red mobs, even when a group
      of 2-3 players moving from camp to camp and quickly killing
      even-level mobs can gain XP faster. Perhaps they want to waste many
      hours camping for items, as well as XP. If so, the developers should
      provide this. I can only speak for myself, and I avoid camping, even
      when it costs me equipment or XP or teams.
      
      Most of the MUDs I played were too small or short-lived to have
      problems with inflation. UO, EQ, and AO do not have good
      economies. UO has a good excuse, being first. AO is an especially
      good example of all the points you brought up.
      
      DAoC, on the other hand, only had mild inflation while I was
      playing. I believe there are several things that contributed to
      this. First, items decayed. The decay rate allowed equipment to be
      passed on only once or twice. Second, there were several largely
      unavoidable money sinks: tradeskills, item repair, and the death tax
      to name a few (presumably housing as well, but I left before that
      was implemented). Third, player attributes and skills were (at least
      in the earlier days of DAoC) more important than equipment. Weapons
      were fairly well balanced so that I didn't feel I *needed* a rare
      sword to be viable. The best spellcrafted equipment gave you no more
      than a 2-3% statistical advantage over common equipment (unless my
      memory is way off here). Fourth, other than diamond seal-farming,
      there weren't any easy ways of generating income. And finally,
      raid-class mobs were fairly generous and on relatively short spawn
      timers. They usually dropped several items (and *always* put quest
      items directly in player's inventories) instead of having a .001%
      chance of dropping one rare/quest item and an 18 hour spawn
      timer. In my limited experience, casual players had a better chance
      of getting raid-class equipment in DAoC than in other
      games. Particularly, as I can't recall any of it not being
      sellable/tradeable to other players.
      
      Whether this was a result of intentional design or chance, I do not
      know. Would the same techniques work in another game or could they
      be used to "fix" current games? I don't know. Also, I haven't played
      DAoC since SI was released, so my memories are suspect...
    • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Eric Random
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Matt Mihaly
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
    • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Stone, Jason
      • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Douglas Goodall
• Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (the firstone:)) Thomas Tomiczek
• • Sun's Sim Server and Gordon's 10 Reasons (thefirstone:)) David Kennerly
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Matt Mihaly
  • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! J C Lawrence
  • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John MacQueen
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Brian Hook
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Travis Casey
  • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Brian Hook
    • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
      • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Kevin N Shallow
• Paranoia Ragnar Lonn
• Player Justice Amanda Walker
• • Player Justice Paul Schwanz
• Less constrained environments Chris Duesing
• • Less constrained environments John MacQueen
• MMOG money-making clients ceo
• • MMOG money-making clients Koster, Raph
  • MMOG money-making clients Valerio Santinelli
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Otis Viles
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Paul Schwanz
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Paolo Piselli
    • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Otis Viles
      • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Amanda Walker
      • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Vincent Archer
        • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Jeff Fuller
          • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Thomas Tomiczek
            • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Steven King
          • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
          • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Vincent Archer
            • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! J C Lawrence
        • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Brian Miller
        • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! John Buehler
          • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Chris Duesing
      • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Paul Schwanz
      • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Paolo Piselli
        • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Amanda Walker
      • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Matt Mihaly
      • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! baar@imperian.com
• Middleware (was Sun's Sim Server andGordon's10Reasons (thefirstone :)) Matt Chatterley
• MudDev FAQ - part 2 Marian Griffith
• Gay Characters in Videogames Michael Tresca
• • Gay Characters in Videogames Tess Snider
  • • Gay Characters in Videogames Darksuit
  • Gay Characters in Videogames Matt Mihaly
  • • Gay Characters in Videogames Michael Tresca
    • • Gay Characters in Videogames Jon A. Lambert
      • • Gay Characters in Videogames matt@ironrealms.com
  • Gay Characters in Videogames Douglas Goodall
• MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 10 kihyun {GTA Interactive}
• Player Justice Freeman, Jeff
• • Player Justice Paul Schwanz
• Licensed setting MMOGs Ian McDonald
• • Licensed setting MMOGs Christopher Allen
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Ryan S. Dancey
• • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Otis Viles
  • • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! baar@imperian.com
  • [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! J C Lawrence
• R: [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Ghilardi Filippo
• [BoardGameDesign] Fog of War (to Robert & dr1010xltd) (fwd) J C Lawrence
• Online economies was [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Brian Hook
• PvP vs. PvE was [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Brian Hook
• [News] Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy! Eric Random
• Kaczynski's Law Freeman, Jeff
• • Kaczynski's Law Michael Sellers
  • • Kaczynski's Law Freeman, Jeff
    • • Kaczynski's Law Michael Sellers
      • • Kaczynski's Law Jon A. Lambert
        • Kaczynski's Law jfreeman@soe.sony.com
        • • Kaczynski's Law Robert Flesch
          • • Kaczynski's Law Freeman, Jeff
            • Kaczynski's Law Freeman, Jeff
    • Kaczynski's Law J C Lawrence
    • Kaczynski's Law Mike Rozak
    • • Kaczynski's Law Michael Sellers
  • Kaczynski's Law cruise
  • Kaczynski's Law Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • Kaczynski's Law Mike Rozak
• Playing catch-up with levels [WAS Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy!] Byron Ellacott
• • Playing catch-up with levels [WAS Virtual goods--Oh, the controversy!] Steven King
• PvP vs. PvE Rob C
• notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC Mirjam Eladhari
• • notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC matt@ironrealms.com
  • notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC Luca Girardo
  • • notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC Jonas Heide Smith
  • notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC Ren Reynolds
  • notes from MUD Dev conf and GDC Brian 'Psychochild' Green
• Playing catch-up with levels Byron Ellacott
• • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
  • • Playing catch-up with levels Craig Huber
    • • Playing catch-up with levels Michael Sellers
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
      • Playing catch-up with levels Ben Hawes
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
        • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
          • Playing catch-up with levels Hulbert, Leland
        • Playing catch-up with levels John Arras
        • Playing catch-up with levels jfreeman@soe.sony.com
        • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Chatterley
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
            • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Chatterley
              • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
          • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Mihaly
          • Playing catch-up with levels Vincent Archer
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
            • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
            • • Playing catch-up with levels Stephen Routledge
              • • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
            • Playing catch-up with levels Lars Duening
            • Playing catch-up with levels ext.Christer.Enfors@tietoenator.com
            • • Playing catch-up with levels Vincent Archer
              • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
                • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
                • Playing catch-up with levels ext.Christer.Enfors@tietoenator.com
                • Playing catch-up with levels Eli Stevens {WG.c}
          • Playing catch-up with levels Zach Collins {Siege}
          • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
            • • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
              • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
                • • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
                  • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
                  • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
                    • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
                      • • Playing catch-up with levels Jason Downs
                • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
                • • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
                  • • Playing catch-up with levels Steven King
                    • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
                    • • Playing catch-up with levels Chris Duesing
                      • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
                    • Playing catch-up with levels Travis Nixon
                • Playing catch-up with levels Steven King
                • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
                  • Playing catch-up with levels Travis Nixon
                  • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
                  • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
                    • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
                  • Playing catch-up with levels Douglas Goodall
                  • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
                    • • Playing catch-up with levels Douglas Goodall
                      • Playing catch-up with levels Harrok
          • Playing catch-up with levels Valerio Santinelli
        • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
        • • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Kwon J. Ekstrom
      • Playing catch-up with levels Jeff Fuller
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Craig Huber
      • Playing catch-up with levels Jeff
      • Playing catch-up with levels Byron Ellacott
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Craig Huber
        • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
      • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
    • Playing catch-up with levels cruise
    • • Playing catch-up with levels Zach Collins {Siege}
• DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
• • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Edward Glowacki
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency baar@imperian.com
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Ian McDonald
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency baar@imperian.com
    • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Pileborg Joachim - FMT
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Paul Schwanz
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Matt Chatterley
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
    • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
      • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
        • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
          • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
            • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
              • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
                • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
              • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Matt Chatterley
              • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
                • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
                  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Matt Chatterley
            • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Douglas Goodall
          • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Paul Schwanz
          • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
          • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
            • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency sziisoft
            • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency cruise
              • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Steven King
                • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Matt Chatterley
            • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Douglas Goodall
            • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
              • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Douglas Goodall
                • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
                • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency baar@imperian.com
                • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Eric Random
            • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Adam Helps
          • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Eric Random
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Brian Thyer
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Castronova, Edward
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Eric Random
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Alistair Milne
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
    • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency John Buehler
      • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Rayzam
        • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Kirinyaga
  • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Freeman, Jeff
    • • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency brian@thyer.net
      • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Kirinyaga
  • DESIGN: Active and Inactive currency Arkitan Plu
• Story Generators Douglas Goodall
• ADMIN Changes to the list page J C Lawrence
• MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 19 Chanur Silvarian
• Playing catch-up with levels Jeremy Gaffney
• MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 19 Threshold RPG
• Bringing in friends Pat Ditterline
• • Bringing in friends Amanda Walker
• [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... ceo
• • [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... Freeman, Jeff
  • [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... Eli Stevens {WG.c}
  • [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... Sean Howard
  • [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... Mike Rozak
  • [biz][tech][dgn][soc] Ten MMOG's you don't want to do... Nathan Yospe
• Playing catch-up with levels Steven King
• • Playing catch-up with levels Byron Ellacott
• Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
• MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 23 Alex Chacha
• Playing catch-up with levels Sean Howard
• • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
  • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Mihaly
    • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Mihaly
        • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Mihaly
        • Playing catch-up with levels Amanda Walker
        • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
    • Playing catch-up with levels Sean Howard
    • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Sean Howard
        • • Playing catch-up with levels Matt Mihaly
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Ola Fosheim Grøstad
          • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler
          • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
  • Playing catch-up with levels Zach Collins {Siege}
  • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
  • • Playing catch-up with levels Sean Howard
    • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
      • • Playing catch-up with levels Sean Howard
        • • Playing catch-up with levels Threshold RPG
          • • Playing catch-up with levels John Buehler