January 2004

• The last days of Discord PVP server on EQ Frank Crowell
• • The last days of Discord PVP server on EQ szii@sziisoft.com
• biggest muds Matt Mihaly
• Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
• • Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
  • • Congratulations Horizons... Marian Griffith
    • • Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
      • • Congratulations Horizons... T H
        • Congratulations Horizons... Matt Mihaly
        • • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
          • Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
        • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
        • • Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
        • Congratulations Horizons... Marian Griffith
        • • Congratulations Horizons... Chris Duesing
      • Congratulations Horizons... Mike Shaver
      • • Congratulations Horizons... Marian Griffith
      • Congratulations Horizons... Tom "cro" Gordon
    • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
    • • Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
      • • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
      • Congratulations Horizons... Christopher Kohnert
      • Congratulations Horizons... Vincent Archer
      • Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
      • • Congratulations Horizons... Vincent Archer
        • • Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
          • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
          • • Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
    • Congratulations Horizons... Matt Mihaly
    • • Congratulations Horizons... John Buehler
  • Congratulations Horizons... Philip M. Hofer {Frumph}
  • • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
    • Congratulations Horizons... Paul Schwanz
    • • Congratulations Horizons... Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
      • • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
      • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
  • Congratulations Horizons... Matt Mihaly
  • • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
• [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ted L. Chen
• • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ammon Lauritzen
  • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Chanur Silvarian
    • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Michael "Flury" Chui
      • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Zach Collins {Siege}
      • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers David Kennerly
  • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Paolo Piselli
  • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Sean Kelly
  • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Chanur Silvarian
    • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Alex Chacha
    • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ted L. Chen
    • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers ceo
      • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Dave Bacher
      • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
        • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ben Hawes
          • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Byron Ellacott
          • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Kirinyaga
        • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
        • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers szii@sziisoft.com
          • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Brian Hook
          • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
            • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Mike Shaver
              • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Byron Ellacott
              • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Byron Ellacott
        • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers J C Lawrence
        • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Rayzam
          • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Vincent Archer
        • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Robert Zubek
  • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Travis Casey
• [BIZ] Defining 'churhn' in relation to MMO games Tom "cro" Gordon
• • [BIZ] Defining 'churhn' in relation to MMO games ren@aldermangroup.com
• Moderation delays J C Lawrence
• NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Peter Seebach
• • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Jon Leonard
  • • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Peter Seebach
  • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Lars Duening
  • • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Peter Seebach
    • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Mats Lidstrom
    • • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Lars Duening
• Expected value and standard deviation. Michael Tresca
• • Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • • Expected value and standard deviation. Michael Tresca
    • • Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• levels (was: ghost mode) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9) Paul Schwanz
• • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) John Buehler
  • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) John Buehler
      • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
        • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) John Buehler
    • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Freeman, Jeff
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) John Buehler
      • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Dave Bacher
    • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Ian McDonald
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
  • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Rayzam
  • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) Rayzam
      • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
        • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) Eli Stevens {WG.c}
    • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Sheela Caur'Lir
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) John Buehler
      • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Dave Bacher
    • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) T H
      • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Rayzam
  • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) eversilver@yahoo.com
• Camping (Was just named as a generic MUD-DEV reply) Chanur Silvarian
• • Camping (Was just named as a generic MUD-DEV reply) ren@aldermangroup.com
  • Camping (Was just named as a generic MUD-DEV reply) Brent P. Newhall
• Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Björn Morén
• • Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Daniel Anderson
  • Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Sheela Caur'Lir
  • Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Kirinyaga
• Do players enjoy farming? Chanur Silvarian
• Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9) Paul Schwanz
• • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9) Tom "cro" Gordon
• Online worlds and behavior... etykwins@fcbayern.de
• ANNOUNCE: MUD-Dev conference, 26 and 27 March 2004 J C Lawrence
• MudWorld.Org Anthony R. Haslage
• New MMORPG from the Army Amanda Walker
• • New MMORPG from the Army Dave Rickey
  • • New MMORPG from the Army Amanda Walker
    • • New MMORPG from the Army Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
• FedExing ghovs
• • FedExing Sean Middleditch
  • FedExing Ben Hawes
  • • FedExing Alistair Riddoch
    • • FedExing Jesus Lopez
      • • FedExing Alistair Riddoch
        • • FedExing Sean Middleditch
• Play styles and world interactionsistilldontwantitposted@phlange.com J C Lawrence
• Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Sean Middleditch
• • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval T H
  • • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Ben Hawes
    • • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Sean Middleditch
  • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Spot
  • • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Sean Middleditch
  • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
• [DGN] Senior Focus Mentor Needed Andrew Budd
• [BIZ] HOW TO SCREW UP A PERFECTLY GOOD GAME COMPANY IN TEN EASY STEPS Michael Tresca
• [BIZ] TEN MORE EASY WAYS TO SCREW UP YOUR GAME COMPANY Michael Tresca
• Crafting systems Björn Morén
• Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex David Lyttle
• • Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex eversilver@yahoo.com
  • • Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Chanur Silvarian
    • • Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Sean Howard
      • • Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Chanur Silvarian
        • • Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Sean Howard
• Moving toward Massive Multiplay (was Congratulations Horizons...) Paul Schwanz
• • Moving toward Massive Multiplay (was Congratulations Horizons...) Mike Shaver
• ADMIN: Policy change J C Lawrence
• [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems ceo
• • [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems Erik Bethke
  • • [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems ceo
    • [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems Jon A. Lambert
• Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
• • Problems with current RPGs Koster, Raph
  • • Problems with current RPGs Sean Howard
    • Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
      From: "Koster, Raph" <rkoster@soe.sony.com>
      
      > - players want to be entertained, not to be creative
      
      > - players want to adhere to archetypes, not create their own
      > roles
      
      > - players are perfectly happy with stagecraft, and prefer clear
      > rules rather than unpredictability
      
      ...
      
      > - the content generated, because it is systemic, lacks unique
      > touches. One noise-generated cloud is much like another; silver
      > linings need to be hand-implemented. :)
      
      > - the ever-changing landscape can actually irritate people, many
      > of whom prefer a predictable environment. If Fred slew the
      > Dragon in the Hoary Mntns, everyone wants to accomplish the same
      > thing. The idea that the Dragon is gone forever is deeply
      > disturbing because it feels like a lost chance for fun.
      
      > - you get consistency, which also means predictability, and
      > predictable content may as well not be there.
      
      > - appproaching it as a system means that vast swaths of the net
      > game content can be "consumed" at once, because once you
      > recognize the underlying rules of the sim, you essentially have
      > cognitively consumed the entire system. Individual instances of
      > the sim appearing are no longer interesting.
      
      ...
      
      > Long term, I remain convinced that the future lies in
      > simulationist approaches. However, stagecraft is not going away
      > for the foreseeable future, for our sims will have practical
      > limits, and in many cases, the sim is tougher to execute on than
      > (and provides no noticeable benefits over) the stagecraft solution
      > for the same problem. [...]
      
      While I understand that different flavours of MMORPGs will always
      exist, my opinion is that the really successfull ones will be
      simulations. I think they can be competitive even today if we
      redefine what we by habit call RPG truths and put that into some
      inventive design.
      
      They will of course be in a different more exciting setting than the
      real world, but when it comes down to game mechanics and "concepts"
      (building blocks) they will resemble the real world as closely as
      possible. My firm belief is that players want the real world. They
      want the same kind of psychology, intuitive concepts, interaction,
      etc, but on steroids and in a more exciting setting. They want to be
      somebody else, but playing by intuitive rules they immediately
      understand. Today we of course have limitied ways of providing such
      an experience (just as you point out), but I feel that designers
      aren't even trying to accomplish something in that
      direction. They'll rather force synthetic concepts on their players
      with the motivation that they make sense within the game world. "So
      I cant attack a player but a non-player, because that will result in
      a better expercience for all players". This is design flaws that we
      dont need.
      
      MMORPGs are very complex games. Players will reject complex games if
      they do not operate in a way that feels naturally intuitive, because
      they simply don't want to put the amount of time and effort into
      learning them. I say that MMORPGs must be complex to provide
      anything interesting, and therefore they must be very close to the
      real world. But they should be in a different and exciting setting,
      and the detailed game mechanics should make intuitive sense within
      that world. The more you break that intuitive feeling the harder it
      becomes for the players. Sure, World of Warcraft style games will
      exist in the future too, but I think they will look boringly trivial
      compared to the "real" MMORPGs that will emerge.
      
      I think you are contradicting yourself a bit when you line up the
      cons of simulations. The statements about player creativeness,
      archetypes and clear rules/stagecraft, are so generally written that
      I get impression that you believe they can never be solved in
      simulation MMORPGs. If that is the case, I dont agree. I think they
      are legacy opinions, thoughts of habit. They are the side-effects
      from bad game designs, not actual truths about player psychology.
      
      While I think RPG players are more creative than most other groups,
      I agree that only a minority of RPG players are really creative, and
      the rest will more or less live off of them. The real problem is
      actually that no game lets players create anything else than noise
      clouds. No game has reached the level of real world resemblence that
      will make player creativity work to an advantage to the whole game
      system. We havn't reached the level where competition among the
      creative will yield "silver lining" in the game, and this is because
      of design flaws, not player psychology. This is closely related to
      the problems you listed about predictability and mass consuming due
      to understanding underlying rules. The games aren't complex and open
      ended enough to support anything else than predictable outcomes.
      
      The same goes for roles/classes. If players lack imagination, then
      presenting archetype roles is a way of get them going. But I think
      the actual role they play in the game will be defined (and
      redefined) as they play (equip themselves, learn skills, take jobs,
      etc). If they feel like a knight, they will call themselves knight
      and so will others. This mechanism is already evident in the
      sub-roleing that takes place in todays limited CRPGs. You aren't
      just a knight among 100 knights. You are the "sword expert knight"
      or the "healer knight", even though the game system may not support
      such labels.
      
      Put in a simplified way (for sake of illustration) the world should
      only consist of physical rules (physics) enforced as game mechanics,
      acting on a rich and engaging world. Designers shall not interfere
      with players' motivations, morale, justice, interaction, lifestyles,
      roles, quests, etc, they should only provide tools to help players
      automate tideous tasks and enforcing player created "concepts".
      
      I would like to see the future MMORPG more like a tool, than a
      finished product. The designers of the MMORPG creates a tool which
      players may use to various degrees to live out their own
      fantasies. I also picture that the difference between game company
      employees and consumers will not be as strict as today. Or there
      will be a third group of "world experience designers" that play the
      game as regular customers, but at the same time contribute a lot to
      the overall world experience by creating the stuff that today is
      labelled "content". This already exists in some half-hearted ways
      (mod makers, fan sites, etc). Observe that I'm not talking about
      employees cranking out five new quests a week.
      
      I have no evidence at all to back up my statements. This is just my
      ignorant biased view on the subject. ;-)
      
      Thanks for the effort that went into your reply Raph. :-)
      
      /Björn
    • • Problems with current RPGs Koster, Raph
      • • Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
        • • Problems with current RPGs David Johansson
    • Problems with current RPGs Yaka St.Aise
  • Problems with current RPGs Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • • Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
  • Problems with current RPGs Yaka St.Aise
• Character Perceptions John Buehler
• • Character Perceptions Derek Licciardi
  • • Character Perceptions John Buehler
    • • Character Perceptions ceo
      • • Character Perceptions John Buehler
  • Character Perceptions Scion Altera
  • • Character Perceptions John Buehler
  • Character Perceptions bjoernen@hotmail.com
  • • Character Perceptions John Buehler
• [BIZ] Warcraft Interview Michael Tresca
• • [BIZ] Warcraft Interview ceo
  • [BIZ] Warcraft Interview Björn Morén
• Raffle at the MUD-Dev Conference, March 27th and 28th 2004 Ann
• R: Moving toward Massive Multiplay (was CongratulationsHorizons...) Ghilardi Filippo
• Python script as stand alone MUD server... Jason Slaughter
• • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Sean Middleditch
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
  • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Jason Slaughter
    • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Sean Middleditch
      • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
        • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Kwon J. Ekstrom
        • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
      • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
      • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
      • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
      • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Byron Ellacott
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Mats Lidstrom
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... ceo
  • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
    • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... ceo
      • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
        • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Byron Ellacott
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Edward Glowacki
  • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Brian Hook
    • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Sean Middleditch
      • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Frank Crowell
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Byron Ellacott
  • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Mike Shaver
    • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Thomas Clive Richards
  • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
• [BIZ] Apparent acquisition of Yantis (mysupersales) by IDE Rudy Fink
• • [BIZ] Apparent acquisition of Yantis (mysupersales) by IDE Bruce Mitchener
• Meaning and entertainment - Farming and FedExing (was Do players enjoy farming?) Michael Sellers
• Power games Ana Valdés
• • Power games Mats Lidstrom
  • • Power games Ana Valdés
  • Power games Byron Ellacott
  • • Power games Ana Valdés
• Mage 2 Mage gbtmud
• • Mage 2 Mage Travis Casey
• Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Brad King
• • Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Chris
  • Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Nick Yee
  • Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Paul Schwanz
  • Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Lee Faris
• Platform choice Gary Whitten
• MUD client popularity Brian Hook
• • MUD client popularity Frank Crowell
  • MUD client popularity Ammon Lauritzen
  • • MUD client popularity Brian Hook
    • • MUD client popularity Rayzam
      • • MUD client popularity Brian Hook
        • • MUD client popularity Rayzam
      • MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
      • • MUD client popularity J C Lawrence
        • • MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
    • MUD client popularity Travis Casey
    • • MUD client popularity Ammon Lauritzen
      • MUD client popularity Byron Ellacott
      • • MUD client popularity Frank Fisher
      • MUD client popularity ceo
      • MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
      • • MUD client popularity Emil Nilimaa
        • • MUD client popularity Tom "cro" Gordon
          • • MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
      • MUD client popularity Sean Middleditch
      • • MUD client popularity Zach Collins {Siege}
        • • MUD client popularity Sean Middleditch
  • MUD client popularity Alistair Riddoch
  • MUD client popularity Byron Ellacott
  • MUD client popularity Brian Hook
  • MUD client popularity Brian Hook
  • • MUD client popularity Sean Middleditch
    • MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
    • MUD client popularity Brent P. Newhall
• SMOG - small multiuser online game Frank Crowell
• • SMOG - small multiuser online game Miroslav Silovic
  • • SMOG - small multiuser online game Frank Crowell
  • SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
  • • SMOG - small multiuser online game Frank Crowell
    • SMOG - small multiuser online game Byron Ellacott
    • • SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
  • SMOG - small multiuser online game Byron Ellacott
  • • SMOG - small multiuser online game Tom "cro" Gordon
    • SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
  • SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
  • • SMOG - small multiuser online game maddog
• [BUS] How to build an MMOG... ceo
• [DGN] Subjective randomness (was: The psychology of random numbers) Robert Zubek
• • [DGN] Subjective randomness (was: The psychology of random numbers) Felix A. Croes
  • • [DGN] Subjective randomness (was: The psychology of random numbers) Sean Kelly
• Solutions for smarter NPCs Björn Morén
• • Solutions for smarter NPCs ext.Christer.Enfors@tietoenator.com
  • • Solutions for smarter NPCs info@castwide.com
  • Solutions for smarter NPCs Kirinyaga
  • • Solutions for smarter NPCs Vincent Archer
    • • Solutions for smarter NPCs Valerio Santinelli
      • Solutions for smarter NPCs Olivier Lejade
      • • Solutions for smarter NPCs Kirinyaga
        • • Solutions for smarter NPCs Olivier Lejade
  • Solutions for smarter NPCs Michael Sellers