January 2004

• The last days of Discord PVP server on EQ Frank Crowell
• • The last days of Discord PVP server on EQ szii@sziisoft.com
• biggest muds Matt Mihaly
• Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
• • Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
  • • Congratulations Horizons... Marian Griffith
    • • Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
      • • Congratulations Horizons... T H
        • Congratulations Horizons... Matt Mihaly
        • • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
          • Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
        • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
        • • Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
        • Congratulations Horizons... Marian Griffith
        • • Congratulations Horizons... Chris Duesing
      • Congratulations Horizons... Mike Shaver
      • • Congratulations Horizons... Marian Griffith
      • Congratulations Horizons... Tom "cro" Gordon
    • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
    • • Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
      • • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
      • Congratulations Horizons... Christopher Kohnert
      • Congratulations Horizons... Vincent Archer
      • Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
      • • Congratulations Horizons... Vincent Archer
        • • Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
          • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
          • • Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
    • Congratulations Horizons... Matt Mihaly
    • • Congratulations Horizons... John Buehler
  • Congratulations Horizons... Philip M. Hofer {Frumph}
  • • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
    • Congratulations Horizons... Paul Schwanz
    • • Congratulations Horizons... Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
      • • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
      • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
  • Congratulations Horizons... Matt Mihaly
  • • Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
• [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ted L. Chen
• • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ammon Lauritzen
  • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Chanur Silvarian
    • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Michael "Flury" Chui
      • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Zach Collins {Siege}
      • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers David Kennerly
  • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Paolo Piselli
  • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Sean Kelly
  • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Chanur Silvarian
    • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Alex Chacha
    • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ted L. Chen
    • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers ceo
      • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Dave Bacher
      • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
        • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ben Hawes
          • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Byron Ellacott
          • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Kirinyaga
        • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
        • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers szii@sziisoft.com
          • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Brian Hook
          • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
            • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Mike Shaver
              • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Byron Ellacott
              • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Byron Ellacott
        • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers J C Lawrence
        • • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Rayzam
          • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Vincent Archer
        • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Robert Zubek
  • [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Travis Casey
• [BIZ] Defining 'churhn' in relation to MMO games Tom "cro" Gordon
• • [BIZ] Defining 'churhn' in relation to MMO games ren@aldermangroup.com
• Moderation delays J C Lawrence
• NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Peter Seebach
• • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Jon Leonard
  • • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Peter Seebach
  • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Lars Duening
  • • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Peter Seebach
    • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Mats Lidstrom
    • • NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Lars Duening
• Expected value and standard deviation. Michael Tresca
• • Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • • Expected value and standard deviation. Michael Tresca
    • • Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• levels (was: ghost mode) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9) Paul Schwanz
• • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) John Buehler
  • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) John Buehler
      • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
        • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) John Buehler
    • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Freeman, Jeff
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) John Buehler
      • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Dave Bacher
    • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Ian McDonald
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
  • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Rayzam
  • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) Rayzam
      • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
        • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) Eli Stevens {WG.c}
    • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Sheela Caur'Lir
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) John Buehler
      • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Dave Bacher
        On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:57:04 +0100, Sheela Caur'Lir wrote:
        > From: "Rayzam" <rayzam@travellingbard.com>
        
        > They use camping and farming as stress relief.
        
        > While camping, they might want to read a book, or are cleaning up
        > the room besides the camp. Offcourse, that would mean a camp with
        > long spawn time, so there's enough time to do stuff besides the
        > camp. Or perhaps do it around the time you are making food
        > .. say, a home- going housewife is making food for kids and
        > husband but it's kinda boring, so she mixes in a little bit of
        > MMOG camping in the mix.
        
        > Now farming MOBs would be a more intense setting, but perhaps the
        > person doing it just wanna kill stuff fast and enjoy slaughtering
        > those little creeps in the dozens in his best barbarian style. It
        > can get boring to do long slow fights, even if they allow for far
        > more and interesting tactics - Sometimes you just wanna cut loose
        > and mow down everything that moves.
        
        Here is the camping scenario:
        
        1. Find a static spawn that nobody else is camping.
        
        2. Kill the mob.
        
        3. Wait 10, 15, 30, 72 minutes (or longer) for the mob to
        respawn.
        
        4. Kill the mob again.
        
        5. Repeat
        
        Lets start with the fact that artificial down time is poor game
        design. Any artificial down time. When you are reading a book or
        watching TV while playing, it means the game has failed to grab your
        attention (or to hold it at least), and it means that you aren't
        really playing the game for most of the time you're in the game.
        
        Typically, you have static camps. Each static camp has a particular
        set of static mobs that spawn.in static places with static loot
        tables. A player either is camping for experience, or camping for
        loot. Most commonly, they are camping for a rare item on the drop
        list in order to complete a quest.
        
        In a MMOG, for either case, there is usually competition for the
        camp. There are very few uncontested camps that are worthwhile. So
        they sit, wait for a mob to spawn, and answer camp checks every now
        and then. After some period of time, the mob that they are waiting
        for spawns, they kill it, then wait again. The procedure is more or
        less the same for camping for experience.
        
        A good group may clear the spawn very quickly, at which point they
        have to wait. and wait... and wait... for the next mob. You can't
        scale the spawn to the group, because it is static, and so what
        happens is they are sitting bored a good percentage of the time.
        
        A bad group won't clear the spawn quickly, and may have mobs faster
        than they can handle them. They may continue to call the camp,
        despite this, denying other players access to the mobs despite being
        unable to kill them by themselves.
        
        A camp may be claimed by someone else, and may be the only "good"
        camp. Players may invent new camps, taking mobs from existing
        camps. More or less, this whole concept of sitting and waiting for
        a mob to spawn just causes problems for the game.
        
        A better solution for reading and TV watching is to make the game
        compelling and engaging enough, even during down time, to encourage
        the players to pay attention to it. Then when something good is on
        TV, or when they want to read, they can log out (I know, I know,
        scarey thought, logging out of the game) and do so. The waiting for
        encounters part is boring, that's why you want to read at the same
        time in the first place. If the game were interesting and holding
        your attention, then you wouldn't want to watch TV or read a book at
        the same time.
        
        It is a failing in the game itself.
        
        A better solution for cooking and for your barbarian friend is the
        concept of instanced encounters, zones or challenges. For cooking,
        while you are AFK checking on dinner, who is calling your camp? Who
        is guarding you, in case the thing spawns while you're busy? If
        you're in a group, the entire rest of the group is sitting there
        bored, not checking their dinners, waiting for something to happen.
        Maybe they can fight without you, maybe not. In a well balanced
        game, where it would be most advantageous for them to face a similar
        strength opponent, they are most likely waiting for you to come
        back.
        
        Now take this same thing, and move it to an instanced approach.
        There is no artificial, developer controlled down time. The players
        can decide when they are ready to try the next opponent, and can
        face it. Solo, there is a place in the instance you can go and be
        safe to go check your dinner, etc. Grouped, the group can make
        plans for what to do to tackle the next part of the encounter. In
        either event, as soon as you come back, you're immediately set to
        fight again, and you can immediately resume play. You don't have to
        wait for some period of time picked by some developer on the spawn,
        you are personally in control over the spawn.
        
        Moreover, for your barbarian friend, a scaled challenge can be
        created to give the barbarian a true challenge to their ability.
        The encounter can be personally scaled, and while individual waves
        may carry no reward, can have a significant reward if the encounter
        is followed through to completion.
        
        Meanwhile, you've removed the incentive to farm a mob that drops
        items on a particular loot table. When any player who needs the
        item can go and request a challenge to have a shot at it, there's no
        incentive for someone to farm the item. Meanwhile, you can control
        flow of the item into the game by making the challenge more
        engaging, more difficult, versus putting an artificial limit on it.
        People with the item will carry prestige, especially if the item is
        visible, because people will know what it takes to get it.
        
        Also... if you use a mission giver to create the instances, and if
        the mission giver is in a safe place, you create a place for groups
        to form, replace missing members and begin and end their hunts.
        This has an added bonus in that it improves socialization, as well,
        whereas camps w/static spawns, more often than not, degenerate into
        bickering:
        
        "Who trained me?"
        "Blah is a trainer!"
        "WTF, we have ORC 2 -- get away from our camp!"
        
        Camps, generally speaking, are a miserable experience, waiting for a
        mob to drop a rare item that you really want. It's more a trial of
        enduring camp checks and chasing off people who would take your
        quarry from you than actually playing the game.
        
        And they don't serve a useful purpose to the game. They encourage
        behavior that you don't want out of players, and probably cause more
        support tickets than any other aspect of the game. This is
        particularly true when you have mobs that drop key parts or whatever
        that spawn insanely rarely, and huge numbers of players who need to
        get the parts in order to do raid events.
        
        More or less, camps are a really bad idea. The benefits you get
        from having them can all be had much more easily with instanced
        encounters or areas, and the problems they cause the game --
        including playre satisfaction -- are huge.
        
        The other thing is... if I know that I have to kill 12 goblins in 5
        minutes to receive the prize, then I can come and engage them any
        number of times and improve each time to meet the challenge. If it
        is really hard to complete the battle in the time limit, then the
        item still will be rare. But seeing other players face the
        challenge and win, and have the item in their hands will encourage
        me to keep trying, versus to complain about it being broken.
        
        The other thing with this is... there can't be a waiting line for
        the challenge, or else it will turn into what the Trials in EQ
        turned into -- a 16 hour line for a single attempt. Also, if it is
        a key or something like a key, it needs to be reasonably easy.
        Deter people from going to the zone by making the zone itself hard,
        not by some artificial means.
        
        Anything that is completely artificial players will complain about.
        
        Dave Bacher
        Programmer/Analyst
        members.battlebazaar.com
    • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
    • • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) T H
      • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Rayzam
  • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) eversilver@yahoo.com
• Camping (Was just named as a generic MUD-DEV reply) Chanur Silvarian
• • Camping (Was just named as a generic MUD-DEV reply) ren@aldermangroup.com
  • Camping (Was just named as a generic MUD-DEV reply) Brent P. Newhall
• Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Björn Morén
• • Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Daniel Anderson
  • Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Sheela Caur'Lir
  • Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Kirinyaga
• Do players enjoy farming? Chanur Silvarian
• Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9) Paul Schwanz
• • Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9) Tom "cro" Gordon
• Online worlds and behavior... etykwins@fcbayern.de
• ANNOUNCE: MUD-Dev conference, 26 and 27 March 2004 J C Lawrence
• MudWorld.Org Anthony R. Haslage
• New MMORPG from the Army Amanda Walker
• • New MMORPG from the Army Dave Rickey
  • • New MMORPG from the Army Amanda Walker
    • • New MMORPG from the Army Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
• FedExing ghovs
• • FedExing Sean Middleditch
  • FedExing Ben Hawes
  • • FedExing Alistair Riddoch
    • • FedExing Jesus Lopez
      • • FedExing Alistair Riddoch
        • • FedExing Sean Middleditch
• Play styles and world interactionsistilldontwantitposted@phlange.com J C Lawrence
• Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Sean Middleditch
• • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval T H
  • • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Ben Hawes
    • • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Sean Middleditch
  • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Spot
  • • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Sean Middleditch
  • Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
• [DGN] Senior Focus Mentor Needed Andrew Budd
• [BIZ] HOW TO SCREW UP A PERFECTLY GOOD GAME COMPANY IN TEN EASY STEPS Michael Tresca
• [BIZ] TEN MORE EASY WAYS TO SCREW UP YOUR GAME COMPANY Michael Tresca
• Crafting systems Björn Morén
• Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex David Lyttle
• • Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex eversilver@yahoo.com
  • • Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Chanur Silvarian
    • • Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Sean Howard
      • • Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Chanur Silvarian
        • • Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Sean Howard
• Moving toward Massive Multiplay (was Congratulations Horizons...) Paul Schwanz
• • Moving toward Massive Multiplay (was Congratulations Horizons...) Mike Shaver
• ADMIN: Policy change J C Lawrence
• [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems ceo
• • [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems Erik Bethke
  • • [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems ceo
    • [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems Jon A. Lambert
• Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
• • Problems with current RPGs Koster, Raph
  • • Problems with current RPGs Sean Howard
    • Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
    • • Problems with current RPGs Koster, Raph
      • • Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
        • • Problems with current RPGs David Johansson
    • Problems with current RPGs Yaka St.Aise
  • Problems with current RPGs Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • • Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
  • Problems with current RPGs Yaka St.Aise
• Character Perceptions John Buehler
• • Character Perceptions Derek Licciardi
  • • Character Perceptions John Buehler
    • • Character Perceptions ceo
      • • Character Perceptions John Buehler
  • Character Perceptions Scion Altera
  • • Character Perceptions John Buehler
  • Character Perceptions bjoernen@hotmail.com
  • • Character Perceptions John Buehler
• [BIZ] Warcraft Interview Michael Tresca
• • [BIZ] Warcraft Interview ceo
  • [BIZ] Warcraft Interview Björn Morén
• Raffle at the MUD-Dev Conference, March 27th and 28th 2004 Ann
• R: Moving toward Massive Multiplay (was CongratulationsHorizons...) Ghilardi Filippo
• Python script as stand alone MUD server... Jason Slaughter
• • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Sean Middleditch
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
  • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Jason Slaughter
    • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Sean Middleditch
      • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
        • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Kwon J. Ekstrom
        • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
      • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
      • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
      • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
      • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Byron Ellacott
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Mats Lidstrom
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... ceo
  • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
    • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... ceo
      • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
        • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Byron Ellacott
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Edward Glowacki
  • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Brian Hook
    • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Sean Middleditch
      • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Frank Crowell
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Byron Ellacott
  • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Mike Shaver
    • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
  • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Thomas Clive Richards
  • • Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
• [BIZ] Apparent acquisition of Yantis (mysupersales) by IDE Rudy Fink
• • [BIZ] Apparent acquisition of Yantis (mysupersales) by IDE Bruce Mitchener
• Meaning and entertainment - Farming and FedExing (was Do players enjoy farming?) Michael Sellers
• Power games Ana Valdés
• • Power games Mats Lidstrom
  • • Power games Ana Valdés
  • Power games Byron Ellacott
  • • Power games Ana Valdés
• Mage 2 Mage gbtmud
• • Mage 2 Mage Travis Casey
• Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Brad King
• • Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Chris
  • Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Nick Yee
  • Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Paul Schwanz
  • Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Lee Faris
• Platform choice Gary Whitten
• MUD client popularity Brian Hook
• • MUD client popularity Frank Crowell
  • MUD client popularity Ammon Lauritzen
  • • MUD client popularity Brian Hook
    • • MUD client popularity Rayzam
      • • MUD client popularity Brian Hook
        • • MUD client popularity Rayzam
      • MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
      • • MUD client popularity J C Lawrence
        • • MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
    • MUD client popularity Travis Casey
    • • MUD client popularity Ammon Lauritzen
      • MUD client popularity Byron Ellacott
      • • MUD client popularity Frank Fisher
      • MUD client popularity ceo
      • MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
      • • MUD client popularity Emil Nilimaa
        • • MUD client popularity Tom "cro" Gordon
          • • MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
      • MUD client popularity Sean Middleditch
      • • MUD client popularity Zach Collins {Siege}
        • • MUD client popularity Sean Middleditch
  • MUD client popularity Alistair Riddoch
  • MUD client popularity Byron Ellacott
  • MUD client popularity Brian Hook
  • MUD client popularity Brian Hook
  • • MUD client popularity Sean Middleditch
    • MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
    • MUD client popularity Brent P. Newhall
• SMOG - small multiuser online game Frank Crowell
• • SMOG - small multiuser online game Miroslav Silovic
  • • SMOG - small multiuser online game Frank Crowell
  • SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
  • • SMOG - small multiuser online game Frank Crowell
    • SMOG - small multiuser online game Byron Ellacott
    • • SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
  • SMOG - small multiuser online game Byron Ellacott
  • • SMOG - small multiuser online game Tom "cro" Gordon
    • SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
  • SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
  • • SMOG - small multiuser online game maddog
• [BUS] How to build an MMOG... ceo
• [DGN] Subjective randomness (was: The psychology of random numbers) Robert Zubek
• • [DGN] Subjective randomness (was: The psychology of random numbers) Felix A. Croes
  • • [DGN] Subjective randomness (was: The psychology of random numbers) Sean Kelly
• Solutions for smarter NPCs Björn Morén
• • Solutions for smarter NPCs ext.Christer.Enfors@tietoenator.com
  • • Solutions for smarter NPCs info@castwide.com
  • Solutions for smarter NPCs Kirinyaga
  • • Solutions for smarter NPCs Vincent Archer
    • • Solutions for smarter NPCs Valerio Santinelli
      • Solutions for smarter NPCs Olivier Lejade
      • • Solutions for smarter NPCs Kirinyaga
        • • Solutions for smarter NPCs Olivier Lejade
  • Solutions for smarter NPCs Michael Sellers