January 2004
- The last days of Discord PVP server on EQ Frank Crowell
- The last days of Discord PVP server on EQ szii@sziisoft.com
- biggest muds Matt Mihaly
- Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
- Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
- Congratulations Horizons... Marian Griffith
- Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
- Congratulations Horizons... T H
- Congratulations Horizons... Matt Mihaly
- Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
- Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
- Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
- Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
- Congratulations Horizons... Marian Griffith
- Congratulations Horizons... Chris Duesing
- Congratulations Horizons... Mike Shaver
- Congratulations Horizons... Marian Griffith
- Congratulations Horizons... Tom "cro" Gordon
- Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
- Congratulations Horizons... Brad McQuaid
- Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
- Congratulations Horizons... Christopher Kohnert
- Congratulations Horizons... Vincent Archer
- Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
- Congratulations Horizons... Vincent Archer
- Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
- Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
- Congratulations Horizons... Chanur Silvarian
- Congratulations Horizons... Matt Mihaly
- Congratulations Horizons... John Buehler
- Congratulations Horizons... Philip M. Hofer {Frumph}
- Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
- Congratulations Horizons... Paul Schwanz
- Congratulations Horizons... Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
- Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
- Congratulations Horizons... Matt Mihaly
- Congratulations Horizons... Lee Sheldon
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ted L. Chen
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ammon Lauritzen
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Chanur Silvarian
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Michael "Flury" Chui
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Zach Collins {Siege}
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers David Kennerly
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Paolo Piselli
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Sean Kelly
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Chanur Silvarian
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Alex Chacha
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ted L. Chen
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers ceo
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Dave Bacher
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Ben Hawes
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Byron Ellacott
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Kirinyaga
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers szii@sziisoft.com
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Brian Hook
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Mike Shaver
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Byron Ellacott
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Byron Ellacott
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers J C Lawrence
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Rayzam
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Vincent Archer
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Robert Zubek
- [DGN] The psychology of random numbers Travis Casey
- [BIZ] Defining 'churhn' in relation to MMO games Tom "cro" Gordon
- [BIZ] Defining 'churhn' in relation to MMO games ren@aldermangroup.com
- Moderation delays J C Lawrence
- NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Peter Seebach
- NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Jon Leonard
- NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Peter Seebach
- NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Lars Duening
- NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Peter Seebach
- NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Mats Lidstrom
- NEWS TECH: Welcome to the "MUD-Dev" mailing list Lars Duening
- Expected value and standard deviation. Michael Tresca
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Expected value and standard deviation. Michael Tresca
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- levels (was: ghost mode) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9) Paul Schwanz
- Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) John Buehler
- Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Rayzam
- Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Paul Schwanz
- Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Sheela Caur'Lir
- Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue9) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol7, Issue9) eversilver@yahoo.com
- Camping (Was just named as a generic MUD-DEV reply) Chanur Silvarian
- Camping (Was just named as a generic MUD-DEV reply) ren@aldermangroup.com
- Camping (Was just named as a generic MUD-DEV reply) Brent P. Newhall
- Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Björn Morén
- Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Daniel Anderson
- Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Sheela Caur'Lir
- Exploits and hacks in MMORPGs Kirinyaga
- Do players enjoy farming? Chanur Silvarian
- Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9) Paul Schwanz
- Do players enjoy farming? (was MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9) Tom "cro" Gordon
- Online worlds and behavior... etykwins@fcbayern.de
- ANNOUNCE: MUD-Dev conference, 26 and 27 March 2004 J C Lawrence
- MudWorld.Org Anthony R. Haslage
- New MMORPG from the Army Amanda Walker
- New MMORPG from the Army Dave Rickey
- New MMORPG from the Army Amanda Walker
- New MMORPG from the Army Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- FedExing ghovs
- Play styles and world interactionsistilldontwantitposted@phlange.com J C Lawrence
From a recent discussion on DevMUD, generously re-ordered for
clarity and maximal confusion, and some names changed to protect the
guilty:
--<cut>--
Bubba says, "I am getting tempted to post on the farming thread, but
I've resisted so far. Specifically, I think that farming types enjoy
farming-type challenges, and they shouldn't _have_ to fight off
monsters destroying their fields. But, there _should_ be monsters."
Jon says, "Monster migration and boundary control."
Bubba says, "They should just have interesting ways to drive them off
that don't involve fighting. Like planting a marigold border or
something."
Jon says, "Oooh. Player control of monster breeding grounds, etc.
Change the environment to favour the species you want..."
Urk [to Bubba] says, "Heh, I think taking the 'farming' thing to that
extreme is cheesy."
Jon is reminded of his parents' next-door neighbor, who does pest
control for the county. Actually... Any MUDs out there with enough
ecology to make that work?"
Bubba [to Urk] says, "It's sort of just a metaphor to me,
representing a different play style."
Urk [to Bubba] says, "I don't think forcing the farmer to hire NPC
guards, etc is asking too much. Presumably they make money from
farming so this would be within their capability."
Bubba says, "My basic thesis being that the different play styles
_need_ to interact, but that individual players shouldn't have to step
outside their styles to do so."
Jon nods.
Bubba [to Urk] says, "Depends on how hiring guards works."
Urk [to Bubba] says, "You saw the recent Seven Samurai reference,
right? I think the problem is that if you segregate the different
play styles too much, you might as well be playing different games
entirely. Having the poor farmers hire some warriors to protect the
village is very reasonable."
Bubba says, "Requiring them to hire warriors sucks. Having it be the
optimal defense is okay."
Urk says, "Well, can you think of non-cheesy alternatives?"
Bubba says, "Ie, marigold borders might stop 80% of monster
predation."
Boffo says, "Like condoms!"
Bubba says, "And hiring some warriors might be the 99% solution."
Boffo says, "Err. Yeah."
Bubba says, "And it would nice if the warrior hiring process felt
like a farming decision."
Jon passes out condoms to the raiding orcs, reducing the number raiding
next time.
Boffo says, "Yes, of course."
Jon says, "Actually, 'monster' protection rackets might work."
Boffo [to Bubba] says, "Okay, simple suggestion of how it could
work. Presumably an established farmer would have some workers. You go
talk to one of them and tell him to bring such and such gold, rice,
whatever, to the nearby village and look for warriors. The worker goes
on his way and returns in a couple of days."
Jon says, "So you pay some food to the nearby goblin den, and as a
result have no wolf problems."
Boffo [to Bubba] says, "I guess my point is that it's easy to make this
work in an easy and non-distracting manner for the farmers. It
wouldn't be different than asking one of the workers to plant orange
seeds on Field A."
Bubba says, "Yeah, non-distracting would be good. The 80% needs to
be non-distracting. I think it might okay for 99% solutions to
require a farmer to step out of his comfort zone. For instance, he
can't just hire fighters to kill off the monsters, he has to lead the
fighters to the monsters' lair too."
Boffo says, "Heh, I can imagine some funny ways of doing this."
Bubba says, "Of course, I'm not sure how any of this fits into a
genmud-type world, where stuff is just happening."
Boffo says, "Boffohaps you can hire "legendary" NPC warriors that are named,
etc as oppose to the nongeneric 'weak' warriors. You could make a
farmer-ish subgame that involved 'maintaining' these legendary
guards. Think the bachelors in The Oddysey or the samurai in Seven
Samurai :) Maybe some of them would eat a fuckload of rice or chase
the female workers around, etc. Anyway, just a random thought. Or
perhaps you'd have to keep them entertained or they might just leave."
Bubba says, "That's a great funny idea. Samurai impregnating your
field hands and gorging on rice."
Boffo says, "Haha"
Bubba says, "Big fat useless samurai leeching off you. The cure
turning out worse than the disease."
Boffo says, "Yeah, I specifically had the bachelors in Odyssey in
mind. Remember how they almost ate the Laertes household to the ground
because Penelope kept stalling them? ;)"
Bubba says, "I don't think players would like it, unless it was
mostly for color and didn't have much effect."
Boffo says, "You're right, it would be mostly annoying."
Boffo says, "In reality I was dreaming up a god-like sim game that
involved this. The only farming game I can remember that involved
this kind of "low-level" activities is Harvest Moon."
Bubba says, "Mmm, god games. I wish I had time to build a demo of my
god game ideas. Harvest Moon was pretty fun, when I didn't mind
thinking Japanese."
Boffo says, "I'm imagining a farming simulation in a MMO would be a little
more detached from the actual farming processes (sowing weeds,
watering the fields, etc). Regarding the 4annoyance' thing, I think
it's inherently something you need to a certain extent. Attacking
raiders, a draught, a fat samurai eating you out of your house --
they're all just ways of injecting something out of the ordinary into
the experience. Having the players get off their ass and do something
different every once in a while is a good thing."
Bubba says, "Giving them the opportunity to do something different is
a good thing, certainly."
Boffo says, "I disagree with what you imply. Everything would be really
boring if the players were able to choose their own woes."
Bubba says, "Boring for the players?"
Boffo says, "Yes. I guess it's a question of what the focus of farming
would be. If people do it for its own sake, then it must be rewarding
in some way. If it's just socially rewarding, great, but making it an
inherently fun activity could not hurt. If it involves pressing a
button every once in a while then you might as well just remove the
button entirely and the associated systems entirely. IMO."
Bubba nods. But take a drought, for instance. It might be better
for there to be a bunch of warning signs of drought.
Boffo says, "Boffohaps it's a bit example. You could turn it do something
rewarding rather than something that could only do bad things."
Bubba says, "And then the farmer can choose not to plant that season
or risk the drought."
Boffo nods.
Bubba says, "The drought happens either way."
Boffo says, "You could make all of these things player-choosable by
offering rewards for being 'daring'."
Bubba says, "But at least the farmer doesn't have to waste seeds or
spend hours hauling water if she doesn't want to."
Boffo says, "For instance, perhaps building your farm near bandit lands
would get you better pay-off in the harvest (you could build this into
the fiction)."
Bubba says, "Why reward daring? Farmer-type players don't value
daring, usually."
Boffo says, "Boffohaps daring is wrong, I just meant the fact that you are
doing something you don't have to. Planting/Not-Planting when a
drought is about to occur is just another example of this."
Bubba says, "Farming might be better characterized as being about
fertility and good stewardship."
Boffo says, "Planting means that you are taking a risk but you'll be able
to get more money that year/period/whatever. Assuming the drought
doesn't fuck up your harvest"
Bubba says, "I'm not sure money should be a big reward for farmers."
Boffo says, "Replace 'money' with whatever farmers would want."
Bubba nods.
Boffo says, "Stop taking my statements so literally ;)"
Bubba smiles. I think it would be fun to create a game where
different roles had very different explicit themes and styles. And
part of character creation would be choosing the few themes that your
character is best at evoking. And that might tie in nicely with a
genmud world. It would just be a fact that the world moves on with or
without you. Your character would be your way of illuminating a view
of the world. Whatever that means."
Boffo says, "Yeah, how very humanities bullshitty of you ;)"
Bubba grins.
Boffo says, "In a moment you're gonna tell us to sit in a circle and say
how everyone's opinions are equally valuable. Right? ;)"
Bubba [to Boffo] asks, "It's not all bs, have you run a genmud?"
Boffo ducks.
Bubba says, "So much stuff is automatically happening in it."
Boffo [to Bubba] says, "I know, it's very cool."
Boffo says, "I know what you were getting at too, it's just the way you
said it ;)"
Bubba says, "To make is playable, you really need a mechanic for
focusing your character. Or else you are going to have a bunch of
newbies running around, trying to fight every fire and failing
miserably and quitting."
Boffo nods, "I'd love to talk about this more but right now Alias is
on. Later." :)
Bubba waves.
Xplat says, "(Referencing Bubba's comments on not having to fight off
monsters, but monsters being present in the game) They should just
collect taxes and then some guild will come in and drive them
off... and collect taxes"
Boffo [to Xplat] says, "That's not a bad idea, also cf Seven Samurai.
Although in the SS case the tax would have been too steep ;)"
Bubba [to Xplat] says, "Taxes aren't really a farming activity. Ie,
they don't play to the fertility/stewardship themes. They are
certainly simulation-appropriate, though."
Boffo says, "Yeah, I suppose it could be argued paying 'protection money'
to the mob is not fundamentally different from paying guards."
Boffo says, "From a farmer's point of view, I mean."
Xplat says, (referencing Boffo's comments on replacing money with whatever
farmers would want) "prize-winning pumpkins?"
Boffo says, "Hehe. I wasn't necessarily referring to physically tangible
goods."
Xplat says, "I was being kind of serious about the pumpkins. Some
farmers are going to be competitive people, and the ones who aren't
get to go to the fair and ooh and aah at the incredibly huge melons
and stuff -- and also the prize-winning vegetables. And as opposed to
'I made a lot of money farming', growing large or otherwise
interesting veggies would be farming-specific ... community-specific
and skill-specific."
--<cut>--
--
J C Lawrence
---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. - Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Sean Middleditch
- Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval T H
- Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Ben Hawes
- Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Sean Middleditch
- Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Spot
- Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Sean Middleditch
- Death and Permadeath and Corpse Retrieval Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [DGN] Senior Focus Mentor Needed Andrew Budd
- [BIZ] HOW TO SCREW UP A PERFECTLY GOOD GAME COMPANY IN TEN EASY STEPS Michael Tresca
- [BIZ] TEN MORE EASY WAYS TO SCREW UP YOUR GAME COMPANY Michael Tresca
- Crafting systems Björn Morén
- Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex David Lyttle
- Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex eversilver@yahoo.com
- Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Chanur Silvarian
- Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Sean Howard
- Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Chanur Silvarian
- Do Quests need to be Fed-Ex Sean Howard
- Moving toward Massive Multiplay (was Congratulations Horizons...) Paul Schwanz
- ADMIN: Policy change J C Lawrence
- [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems ceo
- [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems Erik Bethke
- [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems ceo
- [TECH][TOOLS] SCM systems Jon A. Lambert
- Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
- Problems with current RPGs Koster, Raph
- Problems with current RPGs Sean Howard
- Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
- Problems with current RPGs Koster, Raph
- Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
- Problems with current RPGs David Johansson
- Problems with current RPGs Yaka St.Aise
- Problems with current RPGs Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Problems with current RPGs Björn Morén
- Problems with current RPGs Yaka St.Aise
- Character Perceptions John Buehler
- Character Perceptions Derek Licciardi
- Character Perceptions John Buehler
- Character Perceptions ceo
- Character Perceptions John Buehler
- Character Perceptions Scion Altera
- Character Perceptions John Buehler
- Character Perceptions bjoernen@hotmail.com
- Character Perceptions John Buehler
- [BIZ] Warcraft Interview Michael Tresca
- [BIZ] Warcraft Interview ceo
- [BIZ] Warcraft Interview Björn Morén
- Raffle at the MUD-Dev Conference, March 27th and 28th 2004 Ann
- R: Moving toward Massive Multiplay (was CongratulationsHorizons...) Ghilardi Filippo
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Jason Slaughter
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Sean Middleditch
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Jason Slaughter
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Sean Middleditch
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Byron Ellacott
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Mats Lidstrom
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... ceo
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... ceo
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Byron Ellacott
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Edward Glowacki
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Brian Hook
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Sean Middleditch
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Frank Crowell
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Byron Ellacott
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Mike Shaver
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Alistair Riddoch
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Thomas Clive Richards
- Python script as stand alone MUD server... Zach Collins {Siege}
- [BIZ] Apparent acquisition of Yantis (mysupersales) by IDE Rudy Fink
- [BIZ] Apparent acquisition of Yantis (mysupersales) by IDE Bruce Mitchener
- Meaning and entertainment - Farming and FedExing (was Do players enjoy farming?) Michael Sellers
- Power games Ana Valdés
- Power games Mats Lidstrom
- Power games Ana Valdés
- Power games Byron Ellacott
- Power games Ana Valdés
- Mage 2 Mage gbtmud
- Mage 2 Mage Travis Casey
- Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Brad King
- Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Chris
- Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Nick Yee
- Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Paul Schwanz
- Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Interpersonal Relations in Virtual Worlds Lee Faris
- Platform choice Gary Whitten
- MUD client popularity Brian Hook
- MUD client popularity Frank Crowell
- MUD client popularity Ammon Lauritzen
- MUD client popularity Brian Hook
- MUD client popularity Rayzam
- MUD client popularity Brian Hook
- MUD client popularity Rayzam
- MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
- MUD client popularity J C Lawrence
- MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
- MUD client popularity Travis Casey
- MUD client popularity Ammon Lauritzen
- MUD client popularity Byron Ellacott
- MUD client popularity Frank Fisher
- MUD client popularity ceo
- MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
- MUD client popularity Emil Nilimaa
- MUD client popularity Tom "cro" Gordon
- MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
- MUD client popularity Sean Middleditch
- MUD client popularity Zach Collins {Siege}
- MUD client popularity Sean Middleditch
- MUD client popularity Alistair Riddoch
- MUD client popularity Byron Ellacott
- MUD client popularity Brian Hook
- MUD client popularity Brian Hook
- MUD client popularity Sean Middleditch
- MUD client popularity Edward Glowacki
- MUD client popularity Brent P. Newhall
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Frank Crowell
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Miroslav Silovic
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Frank Crowell
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Frank Crowell
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Byron Ellacott
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Byron Ellacott
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Tom "cro" Gordon
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
- SMOG - small multiuser online game Crosbie Fitch
- [BUS] How to build an MMOG... ceo
- [DGN] Subjective randomness (was: The psychology of random numbers) Robert Zubek
- Solutions for smarter NPCs Björn Morén
- Solutions for smarter NPCs ext.Christer.Enfors@tietoenator.com
- Solutions for smarter NPCs info@castwide.com
- Solutions for smarter NPCs Kirinyaga
- Solutions for smarter NPCs Vincent Archer
- Solutions for smarter NPCs Valerio Santinelli
- Solutions for smarter NPCs Olivier Lejade
- Solutions for smarter NPCs Kirinyaga
- Solutions for smarter NPCs Olivier Lejade
- Solutions for smarter NPCs Michael Sellers