September 2002
- A "dev chat" with Brad McQuaid Vincent Archer
- Article on Griefers Rayzam
- Article on Griefers Stephen Miller
- Article on Griefers Michael R. Estepp
- Serialization, dealing with changing classes. Neil Edwards
- Serialization, dealing with changing classes. Sean Kelly
- Serialization, dealing with changing classes. Ammon Lauritzen
- Serialization, dealing with changing classes. Brian Lindahl
- TECH: Serialization, dealing with changing classes. Mark Kochanowski
- Ballerium: Interesting Game John Arras
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Valerio Santinelli
- Ballerium: Interesting Game John Robert Arras
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Crosbie Fitch
- Ballerium: Interesting Game shren
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Peter Tyson
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Valerio Santinelli
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Vincent Archer
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Mark Cheverton
- Ballerium: Interesting Game huserl@yahoo.com
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Adam
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Valerio Santinelli
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Jon A. Lambert
- Much Respect to JessicaM apollyon
- Much Respect to JessicaM Michael Tresca
- Much Respect to JessicaM Sean Kelly
- Much Respect to JessicaM Dave Rickey
- Much Respect to JessicaM Matt Mihaly
- Much Respect to JessicaM Michael Tresca
- Much Respect to JessicaM apollyon
- Much Respect to JessicaM Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Much Respect to JessicaM Sean Kelly
- Much Respect to JessicaM Michael Tresca
- Much Respect to JessicaM Paul Schwanz
- Much Respect to JessicaM Richard A. Bartle
- PK/PD (was Much Respect to JessicaM) justice@softhome.net
- MudDev - FAQ 1 Marian Griffith
- MudDev - FAQ 2 Marian Griffith
- [decentralization] Reputation device (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [decentralization] Reputation device (fwd) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [decentralization] Reputation device (fwd) Crosbie Fitch
- ANNOUNCE: Open Betas Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- ANNOUNCE: Open Betas Vincent Archer
- ANNOUNCE: Open Betas Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- ANNOUNCE: Open Betas Mordengaard
- ANNOUNCE: Open Betas Mordengaard
- Charlie Munger on the Psychology of Human Misjudgment J C Lawrence
- Charlie Munger on the Psychology of Human Misjudgment [summary of points] Sasha Hart
- Point of View Ted L. Chen
- Point of View Shane P. Lee
- Point of View Damion Schubert
- Point of View justice@softhome.net
- Point of View Shane P. Lee
- Point of View listsub@wickedgrey.com
- Point of View justice@softhome.net
- Point of View John Robert Arras
- Point of View Ted L. Chen
- Point of View Ted L. Chen
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Koster, Raph
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Jessica Mulligan
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Derek Licciardi
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Mike Shaver
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Justin Stocks
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Russ Whiteman
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Justin Stocks
- Flexible Perl MUD-like Server Project Luke Parrish
- Flexible Perl MUD-like Server Project stanza
- Flexible Perl MUD-like Server Project Joshua Judson Rosen
- Flexible Perl MUD-like Server Project Lars Duening
- MMOG growth Matt Mihaly
- MMOG growth Koster, Raph
- MMOG growth Daniel James
- UO Advanced Character Service Christopher Allen
- UO Advanced Character Service Jessica Mulligan
- UO Advanced Character Service eric
- UO Advanced Character Service Jessica Mulligan
- UO Advanced Character Service Matt Mihaly
- UO Advanced Character Service Matt Mihaly
- UO Advanced Character Service Amanda Walker
- UO Advanced Character Service Matt Mihaly
- UO Advanced Character Service amanda@alfar.com
- UO Advanced Character Service Marc Bowden
- UO Advanced Character Service Ted L. Chen
- UO Advanced Character Service Freeman, Jeff
- UO Advanced Character Service Damion Schubert
- Storytelling in MMOGs article Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Jessica Mulligan
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Valerio Santinelli
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Paul Boyle
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Ted L. Chen
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Poe, Lawrence
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Dave Rickey
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article SpY
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Freeman, Jeff
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article SpY
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Derek Licciardi
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Freeman, Jeff
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Marc DM
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Matt Mihaly
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Marc DM
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Matt Mihaly
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article holding99@mindspring.com
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Sean Kelly
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Marc DM
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Sean Kelly
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Mathieu Castelli
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Matt Mihaly
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Matt Owen
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Damion Schubert
- Game developers gear up for cyber wars Michael Tresca
- Online Games Resource Guide Valerio Santinelli
- Critique this combat system Britt Green
- Critique this combat system Paul Schwanz
- Critique this combat system Edward Glowacki
- Critique this combat system hart.s@attbi.com
- [TECH] new linux thread library coming for libc Bruce Mitchener
- Zhe4 shi4 shen2me zhan4? Richard A. Bartle
- Grouping in MMP Games Dave Rickey
- Grouping in MMP Games Clay
- Grouping in MMP Games Amanda Walker
- Grouping in MMP Games Alex Kay
- Player Created Content - The Holy Grail? Matthew Dobervich
- Player Created Content - The Holy Grail? Matt Mihaly
- Player Created Content - The Holy Grail? Sulka Haro
- Player Created Content - The Holy Grail? Matt Mihaly
- Player Created Content - The Holy Grail? Michael Tresca
- Emoticons: When was the "big bang?" Randolf Richardson
- Emoticons: When was the "big bang?" Darren Henderson
- Emoticons: When was the "big bang?" Elia Morling
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Dr. Cat
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Matt Mihaly
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Dave Rickey
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Matthew Dobervich
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Dr. Cat
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Mark Cheverton
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Zach Collins {Siege}
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Dr. Cat
- Massive Online Gaming magazine shren
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Peter Tyson
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Ted L. Chen
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) John Robert Arras
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Ted L. Chen
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) John Robert Arras
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Derek Licciardi
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Matthew Dobervich
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Travis Nixon
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Ted L. Chen
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Sasha Hart
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Ted L. Chen
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) hart.s@attbi.com
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Kwon J. Ekstrom
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Clay
- Diamond Age (ex story telling in MMORPG) Mathieu Castelli
- visualization toosl for text mud builders... (aka automapper) fred@clift.org
- Understanding Simulation hart.s@attbi.com
- Understanding Simulation Damion Schubert
- Understanding Simulation Michael R. Estepp
- Understanding Simulation Ron Gabbard
- Understanding Simulation shren
- Understanding Simulation Sasha Hart
- Understanding Simulation shren
- Understanding Simulation Peter Harkins
- Understanding Simulation shren
- Future of MMOGs Valerio Santinelli
- Future of MMOGs Shane P. Lee
- Future of MMOGs Eric Lee {GAMES}
- Future of MMOGs Crosbie Fitch
- Future of MMOGs Koster, Raph
- Future of MMOGs Mike Shaver
- Future of MMOGs Crosbie Fitch
- Future of MMOGs Joe Andrieu
- Future of MMOGs Crosbie Fitch
- Future of MMOGs Jeremy Noetzelman
- Future of MMOGs Sean Kelly
On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Jeremy Noetzelman wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Crosbie Fitch wrote:
>> IP is irrelevant to users. IP owners will just have to deal with
>> the fact that IP is an oxymoron. Or on the other hand it's quite
>> accurate, i.e. once intellectual property leaves the intellect
>> and is transcribed into digital form, it is no longer
>> intellectual property, but public property.
> Without IP, there is no revenue. Without revenue, there are no
> corporations. Without corporations, there is no Internet.
Why is revenue a function of IP? It may be a controversial topic,
but I think the software industry would benifit greatly if IP laws
were relaxed. Unlike other engineering fields, the software
industry has yet to settle on any basic design standards. In other
fields, part compatibility and interchangibility is considered a
good thing, while in the software industry is seems a sin of the
greatest magnitude. Because of this, software engineering is still
in the days of pre-industrial metalsmithing, where proprietary
skills were closely guarded and considered the only competitive
advantage over the next guy. At some point, however, people
realized that part standardization was a good thing. Perhaps
someday the software industry will realize the same thing. Patents
may provide a competitive advantage, but the sweeping IP laws
governing software development is only holding the industry back.
And while the internet may have massively gained in popularity after
corporatization was legalized, it by no means came into existence at
that time. And most of the tech we use online today was developed
before this time and more for scientific purposes than commercial
ones. You could say that the internet would not exist without
corporations, but then you could make an equally valid statement
about telephones.
> IP may be irrelevant to users, but it's not to the people who own
> IP, and it's certainly reasonable for them to expect compensation
> in exchange for letting people enjoy their content. I don't
> begrudge hollywood for taking my $8.50 for a movie, nor do I
> begrudge Sony their $15/month for MMOG X. They spent money to
> make that content, that IP, and it's theirs to do what they want
> with. The thought that a movie, once aired, becomes public
> domain, is ludicrous.
See, I think there should be some way to differentiate media from
software or knowledge. The term IP is far too broad to be useful.
What IP means to me is that if I go and write software on my own
time my company may make some attempt to claim ownership of that
code. This is far different in my mind from a movie produced by a
film company.
Media is a weird animal. If I see a movie I'm allowed to describe
it to my friends in excruciating detail. This may convince them to
not go see the movie. But if I film the movie with a video camera
and give a copy of the tape to my friend, and his viewing of that
tape has the same effect then I'm in a whole heap of trouble. In
neither case did I deprive the creator of that media of anything
other than the potential revenue from a ticket sale. So what's the
problem? Is it merely a matter of detail of reproduction? In one
case I have a poor copy of the film (my meory of it communicated to
someone else) and in the other I have a pretty good copy of it (a
filmed copy of it given to someone else). I gues the problem is
that giving a friend a duplicate of the movie may keep a person who
would have liked the movie and planned on paying to see it while
describing it to them would not. And it's ultimately just easier to
criminalize exchanging copies than to rely on the goodwill of
moviegoers or change the business model.
> Perhaps you can explain why we NEED a public 3d cyberspace system.
> Personally, I think 95% of the free content online sucks. Most
> MUDs, game mods, etc, all suck.
you could say the same about commercial content, though I grant that
the median of quality for commercial contentis higher than the
median of quality for free content.
> There's always a few good and innovative games, but by and large,
> the content that's good is commercial. There's good reason for
> that ... providing content people are willing to pay for is how
> companies make money.
More to the point, people have to make a living somehow and they
can't do that by giving everything away, unless you want to get
fancy and ask for donations or some such.
>> But it's a chicken and egg. Does the first version happen first,
>> and then a community of Open Source coders join in, or do you
>> gather the coders first, and the first version happens later? The
>> pump needs priming, and so we need a CERN equivalent....
3d internet was tried years ago. It sucked. The fact of the matter
is that there's very little content out there that is experienced in
3d more effectively than it is experienced in 2d. Even computer
interfaces favor 2d (or 2.5d, if you want to nitpick) over 3d. This
isn't because 3d can't be done so much as because it's cumbersome
and unnecessary. Perhaps when i/o gets better that will change,
however.
> That said, I think commercial efforts will always be at the top of
> the heap, primarily for financial reasons. Bandwidth alone is a
> staggering cost for 3d environments, and you'd be amazed at the
> costs generated by FPS games, let alone the costs associated with
> a fully p2p mmog system. Peer to Peer mmogs are definitely a
> viable model. However, I think the best place for them to be
> adopted is in a loose network of commercial nodes. Expecting
> there to be a Napster-like MMOG is just foolish.
I don't know that I agree. If Neverwinter Nights were modified to
support a persistent-world design it would basically be a p2p MMOG.
Unreal tried the same thing way back when with arbitrary server
interconnecting, though I'm not sure if it ever got past the
conceptualization stage. The biggest problem with p2p is
consistency. It's techincally pretty simple to hop from server to
server, but connection performance and fiction continuity would
suffer without some real cooperation. But then maybe this isn't
something that matters a whole lot in a p2p world -- you can always
just avoid the places that you don't like. Neal Stephenson's "Snow
Crash" envisioned a cyberspace that was effectively p2p and it
worked pretty well. - Future of MMOGs Dave Trump
- Future of MMOGs Matt Mihaly
- future of MMOGs Adam
- Future of MMOGs Sean Kelly
- Future of MMOGs Brack, J. Allen
- Future of MMOGs Matt Mihaly
- Future of MMOGs Matt Chatterley
- Future of MMOGs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Future of MMOGs Damion Schubert
- Future of MMOGs Derek Licciardi
- Future of MMOGs Jon A. Lambert
- Future of MMOGs Valerio Santinelli
- Future of MMOGs Travis Cannell
- Future of MMOGs Dr. Cat
- Future of MMOGs Crosbie Fitch
- Future of MMOGs Koster, Raph
- Future of MMOGs Crosbie Fitch
- Future of MMOGs Adam
- Future of MMOGs Amanda Walker