September 2002
- A "dev chat" with Brad McQuaid Vincent Archer
- Article on Griefers Rayzam
- Article on Griefers Stephen Miller
- Article on Griefers Michael R. Estepp
- Serialization, dealing with changing classes. Neil Edwards
- Serialization, dealing with changing classes. Sean Kelly
- Serialization, dealing with changing classes. Ammon Lauritzen
- Serialization, dealing with changing classes. Brian Lindahl
- TECH: Serialization, dealing with changing classes. Mark Kochanowski
- Ballerium: Interesting Game John Arras
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Valerio Santinelli
- Ballerium: Interesting Game John Robert Arras
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Crosbie Fitch
- Ballerium: Interesting Game shren
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Peter Tyson
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Valerio Santinelli
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Vincent Archer
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Mark Cheverton
- Ballerium: Interesting Game huserl@yahoo.com
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Adam
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Valerio Santinelli
- Ballerium: Interesting Game Jon A. Lambert
- Much Respect to JessicaM apollyon
- Much Respect to JessicaM Michael Tresca
- Much Respect to JessicaM Sean Kelly
- Much Respect to JessicaM Dave Rickey
- Much Respect to JessicaM Matt Mihaly
- Much Respect to JessicaM Michael Tresca
- Much Respect to JessicaM apollyon
- Much Respect to JessicaM Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Much Respect to JessicaM Sean Kelly
- Much Respect to JessicaM Michael Tresca
- Much Respect to JessicaM Paul Schwanz
- Much Respect to JessicaM Richard A. Bartle
- PK/PD (was Much Respect to JessicaM) justice@softhome.net
- MudDev - FAQ 1 Marian Griffith
- MudDev - FAQ 2 Marian Griffith
- [decentralization] Reputation device (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [decentralization] Reputation device (fwd) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [decentralization] Reputation device (fwd) Crosbie Fitch
- ANNOUNCE: Open Betas Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- ANNOUNCE: Open Betas Vincent Archer
- ANNOUNCE: Open Betas Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- ANNOUNCE: Open Betas Mordengaard
- ANNOUNCE: Open Betas Mordengaard
- Charlie Munger on the Psychology of Human Misjudgment J C Lawrence
- Charlie Munger on the Psychology of Human Misjudgment [summary of points] Sasha Hart
- Point of View Ted L. Chen
- Point of View Shane P. Lee
- Point of View Damion Schubert
- Point of View justice@softhome.net
- Point of View Shane P. Lee
- Point of View listsub@wickedgrey.com
- Point of View justice@softhome.net
- Point of View John Robert Arras
- Point of View Ted L. Chen
- Point of View Ted L. Chen
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Koster, Raph
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Jessica Mulligan
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Derek Licciardi
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Mike Shaver
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Justin Stocks
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Russ Whiteman
- Commercialization of virtual spaces Justin Stocks
- Flexible Perl MUD-like Server Project Luke Parrish
- Flexible Perl MUD-like Server Project stanza
- Flexible Perl MUD-like Server Project Joshua Judson Rosen
- Flexible Perl MUD-like Server Project Lars Duening
- MMOG growth Matt Mihaly
- MMOG growth Koster, Raph
- MMOG growth Daniel James
- UO Advanced Character Service Christopher Allen
- UO Advanced Character Service Jessica Mulligan
- UO Advanced Character Service eric
- UO Advanced Character Service Jessica Mulligan
- UO Advanced Character Service Matt Mihaly
- UO Advanced Character Service Matt Mihaly
- UO Advanced Character Service Amanda Walker
- UO Advanced Character Service Matt Mihaly
- UO Advanced Character Service amanda@alfar.com
- UO Advanced Character Service Marc Bowden
- UO Advanced Character Service Ted L. Chen
- UO Advanced Character Service Freeman, Jeff
- UO Advanced Character Service Damion Schubert
- Storytelling in MMOGs article Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Jessica Mulligan
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Valerio Santinelli
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Paul Boyle
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Ted L. Chen
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Poe, Lawrence
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Dave Rickey
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article SpY
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Freeman, Jeff
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article SpY
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Derek Licciardi
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Freeman, Jeff
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Marc DM
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Matt Mihaly
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Marc DM
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Matt Mihaly
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article holding99@mindspring.com
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Sean Kelly
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Marc DM
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Sean Kelly
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Mathieu Castelli
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Matt Mihaly
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Matt Owen
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Damion Schubert
- Game developers gear up for cyber wars Michael Tresca
- Online Games Resource Guide Valerio Santinelli
- Critique this combat system Britt Green
- Critique this combat system Paul Schwanz
- Critique this combat system Edward Glowacki
- Critique this combat system hart.s@attbi.com
- [TECH] new linux thread library coming for libc Bruce Mitchener
- Zhe4 shi4 shen2me zhan4? Richard A. Bartle
- Grouping in MMP Games Dave Rickey
- Grouping in MMP Games Clay
- Grouping in MMP Games Amanda Walker
- Grouping in MMP Games Alex Kay
- Player Created Content - The Holy Grail? Matthew Dobervich
- Player Created Content - The Holy Grail? Matt Mihaly
- Player Created Content - The Holy Grail? Sulka Haro
- Player Created Content - The Holy Grail? Matt Mihaly
- Player Created Content - The Holy Grail? Michael Tresca
- Emoticons: When was the "big bang?" Randolf Richardson
- Emoticons: When was the "big bang?" Darren Henderson
- Emoticons: When was the "big bang?" Elia Morling
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Dr. Cat
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Matt Mihaly
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Dave Rickey
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Matthew Dobervich
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Dr. Cat
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Mark Cheverton
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Zach Collins {Siege}
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Dr. Cat
- Massive Online Gaming magazine shren
- Massive Online Gaming magazine Peter Tyson
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Ted L. Chen
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) John Robert Arras
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Ted L. Chen
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) John Robert Arras
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Derek Licciardi
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Matthew Dobervich
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Travis Nixon
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Ted L. Chen
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Sasha Hart
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Ted L. Chen
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) hart.s@attbi.com
- Understanding Simulation (was: Point of View) Kwon J. Ekstrom
- MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Clay
- Diamond Age (ex story telling in MMORPG) Mathieu Castelli
- visualization toosl for text mud builders... (aka automapper) fred@clift.org
- Understanding Simulation hart.s@attbi.com
- Understanding Simulation Damion Schubert
- Understanding Simulation Michael R. Estepp
- Understanding Simulation Ron Gabbard
From: "Michael R. Estepp" <seronis@columbus.rr.com>
> From: "Damion Schubert" <damion@ninjaneering.com>
>> If the effect of a dynamic ecology is too random, then players
>> cannot see evident changes of your ecology, nor affect their
>> outcome. If paths such as extinction are made impossible, then
>> the realistic world model that many MUD designers are aspiring to
>> create becomes fraught with unrealistic controls and
>> restrictions. If players cannot affect the ecology of the world
>> around them to any meaningful degree, then the entire system
>> threatens to become an overly complex way of replicating systems
>> that could be done much simpler, offering much more value to the
>> imp than to the player.
> Its not overly complex and the players are not without the ability
> to effect the environment. They're just not allowed to DESTROY
> the environment so that it will be around for next weeks batch of
> new players.
> A player doesnt have to make rabbits extinct in order to reduce
> their effectiveness. If they are merely reduced to such small
> numbers that the birth rate is hindered the player just made a
> massive effect. So if rabbit pelts are NEEDED for a certain item
> production then players will learn to not mass murder them. You
> can even enrich this philosophy by having in-game books in the
> libraries of the world. "The Art of Careful Rabbit Pelt
> Production".
> You could suppliment it with "The Art of Raising Rabbits" with
> in-game information on what you could do to feed rabbits and how
> much space to give them to encourage breeding. Players might not
> have to get the "last remaining rabbits on Terra" in order to
> control production if you give them a means of breeding their OWN
> group they might be less tempted to wipe the rest off the face of
> the world.
This is the fun part of creating a simulated
environment... developing the supporting systems and game rules such
that breed after breed isn't driven to extinction.
You touched on one way of doing this through giving players
ownership of the resource, e.g., breeding their own rabbits. This
is kind of what happened with the American buffalo (or "buffaloe" if
you're Dan Quayle). They're now pretty much just another
domesticated herd animal rather than being a "free-range" beast that
once dominated the plains. Their existence is guaranteed (assuming
no disease hits them) because their owners have a vested interest in
keeping a sufficient breeding stock. However, turning a game-world
into one big zoo or animal farm where animals primarily exist in
pens may not be what is wanted depending on the supporting story and
overall theme.
Allowing ownership of the resource will avoid the Tragedy of the
Commons that will necessarily occur in the situation where you have
a "free resource" and that resource has value. It's one big
Prisoner's Dilemma where you're pretty much guaranteed that players
will defect.
A second way of regulating harvest of a particular resource is to
make it not "needed". That is, if an item is created by players
using rabbit pelts, design the trade skill system such that rabbit
pelts can be substituted with lynx pelts, fox pelts, etc. As the
rabbit population becomes more and more depleted, the cost (in time)
of acquiring the incremental rabbit pelt will become higher and
higher as they are harder to find. Players will switch to hunting
alternative animals for pelts giving the rabbits time to repopulate.
In a "real world" context, it's similar to the situation with oil.
Oil is a finite, non-renewable resource that has multiple uses from
fuel to plastics... a huge demand. However, the world will never
run out of oil. As the oil reserves shrink noticeably, the price
for the remaining oil will increase. Those products that use oil
and have the lowest profit margin will be the first to switch to an
alternative, cheaper component. This process will continue
throughout the life of the remaining reserve until only those
products with the highest profit on the conversion of oil will
continue to use oil as a component. By the time the world's oil
reserves get to the last X million barrels, the cost of extracting
those last drops of oil will be so high that very, very few products
will able to absorb that cost.
The challenge of trying to create real world simulations in the
context of MMO's is that it can't be done half-way. Most MMO
avatars are immortal and theoretically live forever as long as a
player continues to pay the monthly subscription charge. They don't
have to eat or sleep. They don't need shelter from the elements.
In other words, they're little gods and not humans, elves, or
wookies. In addition, most games don't have a recurring in-game fee
that forces players to "go to work" to support themselves. Thus,
they're little gods on vacation with an infinite hunger to consume
content. Placing little gods in a realistic simulation has some
serious issues.
It's difficult to create a realistic simulation when one component
of the system (the avatars) have very few constraints and are in
unlimited supply. If you go to any environmental system and make
the creature at the top of the food chain in unlimited supply with
an unlimited "hunger" and that ecosystem will have serious problems.
Add the fact that the creature is immortal and you end up with
hordes of unhappy "starving" avatars roaming around looking for
anything to hunt, competing strongly with the other avatars for any
prey that happens to be around... until they quit the game. In
short, creating a simulated environment is a great challenge.
However, it has to be integrated with the other game systems (such
as trade skills, the economy, character skill
development/progression, etc.) such that the finite can support the
infinite.
THAT'S the real fun part.
Cheers,
Ron
- Understanding Simulation Ron Gabbard
- Understanding Simulation shren
- Understanding Simulation Sasha Hart
- Understanding Simulation shren
- Understanding Simulation Peter Harkins
- Understanding Simulation shren
- Future of MMOGs Valerio Santinelli
- Future of MMOGs Shane P. Lee
- Future of MMOGs Eric Lee {GAMES}
- Future of MMOGs Crosbie Fitch
- Future of MMOGs Koster, Raph
- Future of MMOGs Mike Shaver
- Future of MMOGs Crosbie Fitch
- Future of MMOGs Joe Andrieu
- Future of MMOGs Crosbie Fitch
- Future of MMOGs Jeremy Noetzelman
- Future of MMOGs Sean Kelly
- Future of MMOGs Dave Trump
- Future of MMOGs Matt Mihaly
- future of MMOGs Adam
- Future of MMOGs Brack, J. Allen
- Future of MMOGs Matt Mihaly
- Future of MMOGs Matt Chatterley
- Future of MMOGs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Future of MMOGs Damion Schubert
- Future of MMOGs Derek Licciardi
- Future of MMOGs Jon A. Lambert
- Future of MMOGs Valerio Santinelli
- Future of MMOGs Travis Cannell
- Future of MMOGs Dr. Cat
- Future of MMOGs Crosbie Fitch
- Future of MMOGs Koster, Raph
- Future of MMOGs Crosbie Fitch
- Future of MMOGs Adam
- Future of MMOGs Amanda Walker