August 2002

• TECH: Path MTU Discovery Eli Stevens
• Matt's java problems.... Adam
• Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
• • Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
  • Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
    • • Non-traditional monsters? Kwon Ekstrom
      • Non-traditional monsters? eric
      • • Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
      • Non-traditional monsters? Damion Schubert
  • Non-traditional monsters? Bruce Mitchener
  • Non-traditional monsters? Edward Glowacki
  • Non-traditional monsters? szii@sziisoft.com
  • Non-traditional monsters? Nathan F. Yospe
• OT: Gen Con? Michael Tresca
• Unique items vs. item references Brian Hook
• • Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
  • • Unique items vs. item references shren
    • • Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
      • • Unique items vs. item references lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
        • Unique items vs. item references Bruce Mitchener
        • • Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
      • Unique items vs. item references fred@clift.org
      • • Unique items vs. item references shren
        • • Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
          • Unique items vs. item references Damion Schubert
          • • Unique items vs. item references Freeman, Jeff
            • Unique items vs. item references Harrok
            • Unique items vs. item references Zach Collins {Siege}
            • • Unique items vs. item references Rayzam
          • Unique items vs. item references fred@clift.org
      • Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
    • Unique items vs. item references Koster, Raph
    • Unique items vs. item references Dave Rickey
    • • Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
      • • Unique items vs. item references Dave Rickey
  • Unique items vs. item references Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • Unique items vs. item references Sean Kelly
  • Unique items vs. item references Damion Schubert
  • Unique items vs. item references Smith, David {Lynchburg}
  • • Unique items vs. item references Sean Kelly
• Character skill amplifying player skill Brian Hook
• • Character skill amplifying player skill Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • Character skill amplifying player skill Ling Lo
• narrative Bruce Mitchener
• • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
  • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
    • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
      • • narrative John Buehler
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
        • narrative Jeff Lindsey
        • narrative Bruce Mitchener
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
          • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
          • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
        • narrative Nathan F. Yospe
      • narrative Joe Andrieu
      • • narrative Dave Rickey
        • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
          • • narrative Dave Rickey
            • narrative John Robert Arras
            • • narrative Dave Rickey
              • • narrative Jeremy Noetzelman
                • • narrative dmiles@users.sourceforge.net
                • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                • • narrative Dave Rickey
          • narrative Joe Andrieu
        • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
        • • narrative Brad Roberts
          • • narrative Matt Mihaly
            • • narrative dmiles@users.sourceforge.net
              • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • • narrative Vincent Archer
                  • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                    • • narrative Vincent Archer
                    • narrative Damion Schubert
                • narrative Ron Gabbard
                • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                  • narrative Matt Mihaly
        • narrative John Robert Arras
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
          • • narrative John Robert Arras
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
  • narrative Robert Zubek
  • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
    • • narrative Robert Zubek
      • narrative Ted L. Chen
    • narrative dmiles@users.sourceforge.net
  • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
  • • narrative Joe Andrieu
    • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
      • • narrative Joe Andrieu
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
          • • narrative Freeman, Jeff
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • narrative John Buehler
              • narrative Vincent Archer
              • narrative Paul E. Schwanz, II
            • narrative Amanda Walker
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Jeremy Noetzelman
                • narrative Amanda Walker
                • narrative Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
                • narrative Zach Collins {Siege}
                • narrative Dave Rickey
              • narrative Ron Gabbard
              • • narrative Amanda Walker
                • • narrative Sasha Hart
            • narrative Christopher Kohnert
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                  • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                    • narrative Damion Schubert
                    • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • narrative Zach Collins {Siege}
          • narrative Bruce Mitchener
          • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
            • narrative Joe Andrieu
    • narrative Nathan F. Yospe
  • narrative Sasha Hart
  • narrative Benjamin Tolputt
• [Fwd: [Algorithms] ANNOUNCE: updated Chunked LOD demo] Bruce Mitchener
• (no subject) Jack Britt
• • (no subject) Brandon J. Van Every
  • • (no subject) Jack Britt
    • • (no subject) Jeff Lindsey
      • (no subject) Karl Bastiman
    • (no subject) Zach Collins {Siege}
• Advertising Thread Rayzam
• • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
    • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
    • Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
    • • Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
      • • Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
        • • Advertising Thread Kristen Koster
    • Advertising Thread Rayzam
    • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
      • • Advertising Thread Shannon Appelcline
        • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
        • Advertising Thread Rayzam
        • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
        • • Advertising Thread Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
          • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
            • • Advertising Thread Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
            • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
            • • Advertising Thread Jeremy Noetzelman
              • Advertising Thread Amanda Walker
              • • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
            • Advertising Thread Jeremy Gaffney
        • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
        • • Advertising Thread Michael Tresca
  • Advertising Thread Dave Rickey
  • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
• skills (was (no subject)) Travis Casey
• The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Derek Licciardi
• • The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Crosbie Fitch
  • The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Valerio Santinelli
  • The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Russ Whiteman
• Socket Code Stephen Miller
• • Socket Code Smith, David {Lynchburg}
  • Socket Code Blane Bramble
• Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
• • Origins of "carebear" Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • • Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
  • Origins of "carebear" Madrona Tree
  • • Origins of "carebear" Calandryll
    • Origins of "carebear" Dave Trump
  • Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
• The total DBMS approach Aaron "the mad man" Weeks
• • The total DBMS approach Derek Licciardi
  • • The total DBMS approach Hanz, Rob
    • • The total DBMS approach Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
      • • The total DBMS approach Sean Kelly
        • The total DBMS approach Hanz, Rob
        • The total DBMS approach Elia Mörling
  • The total DBMS approach Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • The total DBMS approach Ian Macintosh
• Otherland Richard A. Bartle
• • Otherland shren
  • • Otherland Richard A. Bartle
    • • Otherland shren
  • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • • Otherland Richard A. Bartle
    • • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • Otherland Dan Homerick
• Efficiency in providing entertainment John Buehler
• Noncombat(and combat) skills WAS: (no subject) "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
• Mountaineering and Athletics Brandon J. Van Every
• • Mountaineering and Athletics Damion Schubert
  • • Mountaineering and Athletics John Buehler
    • • Mountaineering and Athletics Poe, Lawrence
  • Mountaineering and Athletics Vincent Archer
• Noncombat(and combat) skills Jo Dillon
• • Noncombat(and combat) skills "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
• They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Jack Britt
• • They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Brandon J. Van Every
  • They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Artovil
  • They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Zach Collins {Siege}
• What Ever Happened to Imaginary Realities? Phillip Lenhardt
• • What Ever Happened to Imaginary Realities? Richard A. Bartle
• Butterfly.net Matt Mihaly
• • Butterfly.net Freeman, Jeff
  • • Butterfly.net Luca Girardo
  • Butterfly.net Luca Girardo
• Mythology Articles Shannon Appelcline
• Item handling (was: Advertising Thread) Jeff Lindsey
• Advertising Thread Brad McQuaid
• • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Advertising Thread Damion Schubert
    • • Advertising Thread Marc Bowden
      • • Advertising Thread Damion Schubert
      • Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
  • Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
  • • Advertising Thread Brad McQuaid
    • • Advertising Thread Dave Rickey
      • • Advertising Thread Marc LaFleur
        • • Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
          • • Advertising Thread Marc LaFleur
            • • Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
        • Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
        • • Advertising Thread Zach Collins {Siege}
          • • Advertising Thread Ron Gabbard
  • Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
• Social Networks Dave Rickey
• • Social Networks Brian 'Psychochild' Green
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
    • • Social Networks Brian 'Psychochild' Green
      • Social Networks Bruce Mitchener
      • • Social Networks Harrok
        • • Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
          • Social Networks Sage
          • • Social Networks Damion Schubert
          • Social Networks Matt Mihaly
          • • Social Networks Harrok
            • • Social Networks Matt Mihaly
        • Social Networks Tess Snider
        • • Social Networks Paul Schwanz
          • • Social Networks Bruce Mitchener
            • • Social Networks Paul Schwanz
              • • Social Networks Michael Tresca
                • Social Networks Marian Griffith
                • • Social Networks Zach Collins {Siege}
  • Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
  • Social Networks Koster, Raph
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
  • Social Networks Sasha Hart
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
    • • Social Networks Koster, Raph
      • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
        • • Social Networks Koster, Raph
          • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
            • • Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
              • Social Networks Jeff Cole
              • • Social Networks Koster, Raph
                • • Social Networks Jeff Cole
                • Social Networks Matthew Dobervich
                • • Social Networks Jeff Cole
                • Social Networks Dave Rickey
                  From: "Jeff Cole" <jeff.cole@mindspring.com>
                  > From: Dave Rickey
                  
                  >> But the social network is a collection of individuals, you cannot
                  >> separate questions of network behavior from the link-creation
                  >> behaviour of the nodes.
                  
                  > I think that it has been demonstrated time and again that humans
                  > are socially inclined. Certainly, within the context of
                  > multiplayer games, a developer can safely assume that every node
                  > seeks, to whatever extent, a social experience.
                  
                  Can we? UO guilds never approached the size of EQ and Camelot
                  guilds, even though it had similar server populations.
                  
                  > Assuming the number of links an individual establishes represents
                  > (rough, even?) measure of the individual's fitness (your
                  > socialness), then it is the manner in which individuals are not
                  > equally fit (the link distribution) that is so important: fitness
                  > follows a power curve.
                  
                  I think network fitness is sharply separated from individual
                  "fitness" (I'm not sure individual fitness is relevant in this
                  context). Altough the hub is more important to the integrity of the
                  network than other nodes, it is not inherently more fit. Yes, here
                  we're verging on "group selection", but it is entirely possible that
                  group selection does operate on human social networks, through
                  learned and emulated behaviour.
                  
                  >> I've been thinking of it in terms of "defining social conflict".
                  >> There is something that individuals want that they can only
                  >> achieve through cooperation of a larger scale. In EQ, it was
                  >> managing the spawns of high-level encounters, in Camelot it is
                  >> control of relics and access to Darkness Falls. The problem in
                  >> both cases seems to be that they have nothing *else* to do that
                  >> requires that level of organization, and a limited scope of
                  >> activity that contributes to that goal.
                  
                  >> I've been trying to think of ways to establish multiple hubs.
                  
                  > While evolution in content is indeed important, I think it begs
                  > the question of whether the existing content is efficiently or
                  > effectively implemented.
                  
                  I was basicly asking the question of what would constitute
                  "effective implementation". Unless we have defined that, we cannot
                  judge whether we have achieved it.
                  
                  > That a social network is scale free, implies that the fitness
                  > curve is going to largely depend on the nodes and not the content;
                  > that is, that additional or different content is not going to
                  > drastically change the networks link distribution.
                  
                  I'm not sure that social networks are neccessarily scale-free.
                  Scale-free networks seem to be a property of systems that are
                  required to adapt, but that carryineffieincies that make them
                  non-ideal for particular cases. In the absence of selection
                  pressures, or more accurately if selection pressures do not change,
                  scale-free networks are not neccessarily more fit. What is the
                  environment for a social network, what determines if it is more fit?
                  More specifically, what is the environment for the social networks
                  in these games?
                  
                  > Decreasing the transaction cost associated with demonstrating
                  > fitness-- and, therefore, establishing links-- would have a much
                  > more profound effect on the distribution. Also, decreasing such
                  > costs would increase the likelihood that a network could recover
                  > from the loss of a hub insofar as remaining nodes could more
                  > easily and quickly establish new links.
                  
                  So, in this context DAoC's "looking for group" system (possibly)
                  reduced transactional costs of establishing links compared to EQ's
                  "/shout 35 Paladin LFG" method, which was superior to that in UO
                  (which had very limited communications tools)? And our
                  auto-promotion for guilds with MIA Guildmasters reduces the costs of
                  perpetuating the network after the loss of the primary hub. I can
                  buy that. Nonetheless, a particular link forms for a particular
                  reason, and is strengthened compared to other links for other
                  reasons, and I don't think it's going very far to say that the
                  design of the game can have a significant impact on those reasons.
                  
                  > Currently, the costs associated with demonstrating fitness and
                  > establishing links are a far higher hurdle than lack of incentive
                  > or content.
                  
                  From the viewpoint of nodes (players), the fitness of a link can and
                  probably often does turn on whether that link better enables that
                  player to pursue his goals. Not that players won't form bonds just
                  because they want to, I'm saying that the choices the player makes
                  in what links to strengthen and peretuate can be influenced by the
                  restrictions placed on his goal-seeking by the game.
                  
                  >> What I find myself wondering is, if we can create explicit
                  >> support (or even encouragement) of multiple hubs and more
                  >> cross-cluster random links, will that make guilds less likely to
                  >> migrate?
                  
                  > Hmm. Now, *this* is where content is a solution. The stronger
                  > you make the network, the more likely it is the network will
                  > migrate if the hubs migrate.
                  
                  Well, I think we can assume that players will move in whatever
                  direction they are most "pulled" in, when it comes to game-migration
                  issues. Very few guilds remained divided between EQ and Camelot for
                  long, eventually they went with either one or the other. In most
                  cases, it was whatever game the Guildmaster preferred. What I'm
                  wondering is if the game encouraged other hubs inside of the guild
                  structure, is it possible that 1 person would no longer be the
                  deciding factor?
                  
                  But after more thought, it doesn't seem too promising. It seems
                  like it will be more effective to try and allow the guild as an
                  entity to establish a presence that isn't portable. As Raph has
                  pointed out, player-controlled in-world content seems a likely
                  avenue. Giving up a place on a raid rotation is one thing, giving
                  up a castle and land would be quite another.
                  
                  Basicly, we need to think of the guilds themselves as players of a
                  meta-game, a layer of gameplay over and above that the players see.
                  The guild has goals (at a minimum, to perpetuate itself by gaining
                  members at around the same rate it loses them), and to achieve that
                  it tries to aid the pursuit of goals by the individuals within it.
                  Guilds as group-providers works well up to a point. What effect can
                  changes in the goals of individuals have on the structure of the
                  guilds? Is it possible for the guild itself to have goals other
                  than self-perpetuation through satisfaction of individual goals?
                  
                  --Dave
        • Social Networks Jeff Cole
      • Social Networks Sasha Hart
  • Social Networks Nicolai Hansen
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
  • Social Networks Paul E. Schwanz, II
  • • Social Networks Sasha Hart
    • • Social Networks paul.schwanz@sun.com
      • • Social Networks Sasha Hart
      • Social Networks Matt Mihaly
    • Social Networks John Buehler
• Advertising Thread Edward Glowacki
• • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
• Histories and Legends paul.schwanz@sun.com
• • Histories and Legends Koster, Raph
  • • Histories and Legends Paul Schwanz
    • Histories and Legends Matt Mihaly
    • • Histories and Legends Paul Schwanz
    • Histories and Legends Val Trullinger
  • Histories and Legends apollyon
  • • Histories and Legends Matthew Dobervich
    • • Histories and Legends Koster, Raph
      • Histories and Legends Edward Glowacki
      • • Histories and Legends Sasha Hart
• Advertising Thread Richard A. Bartle
• Where do you get you numbers? NetEngels@aol.com
• • Where do you get you numbers? Dave Rickey
• Mud Advertising Matt Mihaly
• • Mud Advertising Christopher Allen
  • • Mud Advertising Brian 'Psychochild' Green
• Online World Timeline slashdotted Koster, Raph
• • Online World Timeline slashdotted Lars Duening
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Dave Rickey
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Ted L. Chen
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Russ Whiteman
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Jon A. Lambert
• TECH: Trusting Network Clients Fox McCloud
• • TECH: Trusting Network Clients "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Jeremy Noetzelman
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Nicolai Hansen
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
    • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Freeman, Jeff
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Vincent Archer
        • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Brack, J. Allen
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Kwon J. Ekstrom
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients brian hook
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Koster, Raph
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sasha Hart
        • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Phillip Lenhardt
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sasha Hart
        • TECH: Trusting Network Clients apollyon
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Travis Nixon
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sean Kelly
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Koster, Raph
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sean Kelly
          • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Paul Schwanz
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Justin Quimby
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Steve Dieter
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Jesus Lopez
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Nicolai Hansen
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Tess Snider
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christohe Badoit
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Bruce Mitchener
    • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christophe Badoit
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Fox McCloud
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christophe Badoit
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Edward Glowacki
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients James Ross Nicoll
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Phillip Lenhardt
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Russ Whiteman
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Ian Macintosh
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients damon baker
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Benjamin Tolputt
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients David H. Loeser Jr.
• Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
• • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
  • • Natural Selection and Communities Koster, Raph
    • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
    • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
    • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
      • • Natural Selection and Communities Dave Rickey
        • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
          • • Natural Selection and Communities Dave Rickey
            • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
              • • Natural Selection and Communities Crosbie Fitch
        • Natural Selection and Communities Koster, Raph
        • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
          • • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
            • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
        • Natural Selection and Communities Dave Trump
        • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
        • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
          • • Natural Selection and Communities Damion Schubert
      • Natural Selection and Communities Ron Gabbard
  • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
  • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
    • • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
      • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
        • • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
  • Natural Selection and Communities David Kennerly
  • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
    • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
• Peer-to-peer hosting of player created content in persistant worlds. Matthew Dobervich
• Sales data Richard A. Bartle
• • Sales data Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • Sales data Luca Girardo
  • Sales data Richard A. Bartle
  • • Sales data Rayzam
  • Sales data Robert A. Rice, Jr.
• Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
• • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
  • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
    • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
      • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sasha Hart
        • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
          • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sasha Hart
        • Cans of Achievements and Quests Justin Quimby
        • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
      • Cans of Achievements and Quests Paul Schwanz
      • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
        • • Cans of Achievements and Quests damon baker
          • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
            • Cans of Achievements and Quests Michael Tresca
  • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
• Muds and High School Textbooks Jon A. Lambert
• Unruly Players (fwd) J C Lawrence