August 2002
- TECH: Path MTU Discovery Eli Stevens
- Matt's java problems.... Adam
- Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
- Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
- Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
- Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
- Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
- Non-traditional monsters? Kwon Ekstrom
- Non-traditional monsters? eric
- Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
- Non-traditional monsters? Damion Schubert
- Non-traditional monsters? Bruce Mitchener
- Non-traditional monsters? Edward Glowacki
- Non-traditional monsters? szii@sziisoft.com
- Non-traditional monsters? Nathan F. Yospe
- OT: Gen Con? Michael Tresca
- Unique items vs. item references Brian Hook
- Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
- Unique items vs. item references shren
- Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
- Unique items vs. item references lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- Unique items vs. item references Bruce Mitchener
- Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
- Unique items vs. item references fred@clift.org
- Unique items vs. item references shren
- Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
- Unique items vs. item references Damion Schubert
- Unique items vs. item references Freeman, Jeff
- Unique items vs. item references Harrok
- Unique items vs. item references Zach Collins {Siege}
- Unique items vs. item references fred@clift.org
- Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
- Unique items vs. item references Koster, Raph
- Unique items vs. item references Dave Rickey
- Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
- Unique items vs. item references Dave Rickey
- Unique items vs. item references Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Unique items vs. item references Sean Kelly
- Unique items vs. item references Damion Schubert
- Unique items vs. item references Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- Unique items vs. item references Sean Kelly
- Character skill amplifying player skill Brian Hook
- Character skill amplifying player skill Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Character skill amplifying player skill Ling Lo
- narrative Bruce Mitchener
- narrative Brandon J. Van Every
- narrative Robert Zubek
- narrative Brandon J. Van Every
- narrative Sasha Hart
- narrative Benjamin Tolputt
- [Fwd: [Algorithms] ANNOUNCE: updated Chunked LOD demo] Bruce Mitchener
- (no subject) Jack Britt
- (no subject) Brandon J. Van Every
- (no subject) Jack Britt
- (no subject) Jeff Lindsey
- (no subject) Karl Bastiman
- (no subject) Zach Collins {Siege}
- Advertising Thread Rayzam
- Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
- Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
- Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
- Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
- Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
- Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
- Advertising Thread Kristen Koster
- Advertising Thread Rayzam
- Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
- Advertising Thread Shannon Appelcline
- Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
- Advertising Thread Rayzam
- Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
- Advertising Thread Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
- Advertising Thread Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
- Advertising Thread Jeremy Noetzelman
- Advertising Thread Amanda Walker
- Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
- Advertising Thread Jeremy Gaffney
- Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
- Advertising Thread Michael Tresca
- Advertising Thread Dave Rickey
- Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
- skills (was (no subject)) Travis Casey
- The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Derek Licciardi
- The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Crosbie Fitch
- The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Valerio Santinelli
- The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Russ Whiteman
- Socket Code Stephen Miller
- Socket Code Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- Socket Code Blane Bramble
- Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
- Origins of "carebear" Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
- Origins of "carebear" Madrona Tree
- Origins of "carebear" Calandryll
- Origins of "carebear" Dave Trump
- Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
- The total DBMS approach Aaron "the mad man" Weeks
- The total DBMS approach Derek Licciardi
- The total DBMS approach Hanz, Rob
- The total DBMS approach Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- The total DBMS approach Sean Kelly
- The total DBMS approach Hanz, Rob
- The total DBMS approach Elia Mòˆrling
- The total DBMS approach Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- The total DBMS approach Ian Macintosh
- Otherland Richard A. Bartle
- Efficiency in providing entertainment John Buehler
- Noncombat(and combat) skills WAS: (no subject) "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
- Mountaineering and Athletics Brandon J. Van Every
- Mountaineering and Athletics Damion Schubert
- Mountaineering and Athletics John Buehler
- Mountaineering and Athletics Poe, Lawrence
- Mountaineering and Athletics Vincent Archer
- Noncombat(and combat) skills Jo Dillon
- Noncombat(and combat) skills "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
- They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Jack Britt
- They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Brandon J. Van Every
- They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Artovil
- They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Zach Collins {Siege}
- What Ever Happened to Imaginary Realities? Phillip Lenhardt
- What Ever Happened to Imaginary Realities? Richard A. Bartle
- Butterfly.net Matt Mihaly
- Butterfly.net Freeman, Jeff
- Butterfly.net Luca Girardo
- Butterfly.net Luca Girardo
- Mythology Articles Shannon Appelcline
- Item handling (was: Advertising Thread) Jeff Lindsey
- Advertising Thread Brad McQuaid
- Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
- Advertising Thread Damion Schubert
- Advertising Thread Marc Bowden
- Advertising Thread Damion Schubert
- Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
- Advertising Thread Brad McQuaid
- Advertising Thread Dave Rickey
- Advertising Thread Marc LaFleur
- Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
- Advertising Thread Marc LaFleur
- Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
- Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Advertising Thread Zach Collins {Siege}
- Advertising Thread Ron Gabbard
- Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Social Networks Dave Rickey
- Social Networks Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Social Networks Dave Rickey
- Social Networks Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Social Networks Bruce Mitchener
Hi Dave and Brian,
Dave Rickey wrote:
> From: "Brian 'Psychochild' Green" <brian@psychochild.org>
>> Actually, how well you connect to the social fabric tends to be a
>> function of size, in my experience. People in smaller towns
>> still do know everyone in town and new people tend to be absorbed
>> into the social fabric easier. In larger towns, you tend to get
>> a lot more of the impersonal feeling you describe.
> I was actually thinking of urban neighborhoods rather than small
> towns. I'm not sure absolute size really has as much to do with
> it on that level, so much as there is nothing in my neighborhood
> to make us want to interact, or even have much opportunity. Why
> would I want to interact with my neighbors, and when would I do
> it?
>> One reason is due to the frequency of contact with other people.
>> In a smaller town, you are much more likely to run into your
>> neighbors on your way to work (or even at work), at a restaurant,
>> or at the local watering hole. In a large city, you could
>> potentially never run into your neighbors while you are out and
>> about in town. I've heard many stories about people talking
>> about the same effect in online RPGs; they meet a friendly face
>> once then never see that person again.
> An alternative theory is that as increased mobility and
> communication made it easier to form relationships with people
> other than those most physically proximate to you, the density of
> neighborhood links inevitably declined.
In the early 1960s, Jane Jacobs wrote _The Death and Life of Great
American Cities_ that dealt partially with this sort of topic.
For some broad overview information on the book:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/08/17/reviews/jacobs.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/067974195X
She starts the book by discussing the role of sidewalks in fostering
safety:
"Sidewalks, their bordering uses, and their users, are active
participants in the drama of civilization vs barbarism in
cities. To keep the city safe is a fundmental task of a city's
streets and its sidewalks."
Quoting from the NY TImes review:
"Big cities she says, are full of strangers. Citizens and
strangers alike must enjoy security on city streets. This
security, she insists, will never come just from a vigilant
police force. It requires an intricate social system, which
automatically achieves this effect. You get it from "public
actors," from habitual street watchers, such as storekeepers,
doormen and interested neighbors, and from more or less
constant use at different hours, which is possible only if
there is a rich mixture of activities in buildings of varying
age and character."
She goes on to discuss the ineffectiveness of police and special
guards being the only guardian force against barbarism and fear:
"No amount of police can enforce civilization where the normal,
casual enforcement of it has broken down."
Some factors that she claims play a role in the safety of a city,
based on some anecdotal stories, are:
* Presence of passers-by, kibitzers, shopkeepers to intervene
(or prevent by their presence) in criminal acts.
* A lack of the above, with a history of danger, leading people
to remain away or leave, dullness or dispiritedness
of the district of the city encouraging people to leave, all
combining to increase the crime rate.
Both of these are directly related to the strength of the social fabric
in a given district in the city.
How can we go about shaping the world and how we
structure/organize/present that world to help create a stronger social
fabric? Jane Jacobs argues that:
* There must be a clear separation between public and
private space.
* The streets must be watched. Both the buildings along
the street and the people in them must face the street.
* The streets must be in use and have a fair number of users.
* This means that they need to provide services that
people need: shops, food, drink, transportation,
entertainment.
* The streets need to be interesting. People don't
tend to linger or socialize or just watch the world
around them as much if everything is dull and boring.
There are numerous problems with applying these ideas to a game:
* Encouraging that level of socialization amongst players
who may just be focused on their own tasks and happy to
ignore everything around them.
* Morality in an online world may differ substantially from
morality in our every day regular world.
* The nature of the interface with the game may not make
actions of socialization.
* Possible lack of strong enough deterrents and long term
effects on people who are 'bad'?
* Cities in games serve different purposes from cities
in the real world. How much overlap is there between
those purposes and where are those overlaps in areas
that are suitable for some of the ideas that Jacobs
supports? To what extent would it be valuable to
make cities play a more vital role in online worlds?
Her discussion of the role of the sidewalks in assimilating children
into society and socializing them in the process, rather than
relying upon separate areas and equipment such as playgrounds is
interesting, and may be comparable to the use of newbie areas to
attempt to introduce new players into the gameworld.
She goes on and on with many further topics: role of public parks,
neighborhoods, the need for diversity (in population, in the types
of buildings, in the uses that a district is put to, and so on), the
value of having a dense population.
I really recommend reading the book. It is pretty easy reading,
full of anecdotal stories, and more enjoyable writing than mine.
This post only begins to scratch the surface of what she talks
about.
All of this has a bit of a relation to aspects of Jessica Mulligan's
recent Biting the Hand, which can be found at:
http://www.skotos.net/articles/BTH_32.shtml
where she talks about the role of gift economies in online games:
"That common good may represent the prosaic, such as the
aforementioned English commons land, or the unusual, such as
the development of the Internet, USEnet and World Wide Web
before 1993 by the contributions of many individuals with no
expectation of monetary profit. The beauty of the gift exchange
economy is that anyone can contribute and anyone can benefit
from the results; it isn't owned, in the normal sense of the
word. Rather than diminishing supply by removing something from
the economy and causing it to change hands, gift exchange
contributions tend to stack up geometrically, creating more and
more benefits to the community as a whole. No one really cares
whether people 'free ride' or not; the object is to build the
base of information, land, tools, whatever, which provides
benefits to the common use and good. Think of it as a
transaction of the collective soul, rather than a transaction
of the individual wallet.
"As an example of how this might work in a persistent world,
imagine that a number of citizens portion off a section of
unused 'land' in the game, create a park and are then able to
trip a flag that makes the confines of park and some portion of
the surrounding area incapable of player-versus-player (PvP)
combat. One or more players might donate buffed-out NPC guards
to patrol the park and keep the player-killers from hanging at
the edges of the PvP zone to attack those entering or
leaving. Another might contribute the deed to a gazebo, and
another a fountain, others might donate tables, chairs and
other decorations. Some players might donate 'sweat equity' in
the form of leveling the terrain, so fountain and gazebo can be
laid down in advantageous positions, or donating time to act as
supplemental guards over the area. And perhaps someone donates
a metal forge, free for use by all at no cost, other than
bringing in your own raw materials to be worked. The end result
would be a safe harbor that any citizen could enjoy, and which
would probably be used for unplanned purposes, such player
weddings, picnics, meetings and other events (such 'non-game'
events are quite popular in persistent worlds)."
Thoughts?
- Bruce - Social Networks Harrok
- Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
- Social Networks Sage
- Social Networks Damion Schubert
- Social Networks Matt Mihaly
- Social Networks Harrok
- Social Networks Matt Mihaly
- Social Networks Tess Snider
- Social Networks Paul Schwanz
- Social Networks Bruce Mitchener
- Social Networks Paul Schwanz
- Social Networks Michael Tresca
- Social Networks Marian Griffith
- Social Networks Zach Collins {Siege}
- Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
- Social Networks Koster, Raph
- Social Networks Dave Rickey
- Social Networks Sasha Hart
- Social Networks Dave Rickey
- Social Networks Koster, Raph
- Social Networks Dave Rickey
- Social Networks Koster, Raph
- Social Networks Dave Rickey
- Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
- Social Networks Jeff Cole
- Social Networks Koster, Raph
- Social Networks Jeff Cole
- Social Networks Matthew Dobervich
- Social Networks Jeff Cole
- Social Networks Dave Rickey
- Social Networks Jeff Cole
- Social Networks Sasha Hart
- Social Networks Nicolai Hansen
- Social Networks Dave Rickey
- Social Networks Paul E. Schwanz, II
- Social Networks Sasha Hart
- Social Networks paul.schwanz@sun.com
- Social Networks Sasha Hart
- Social Networks Matt Mihaly
- Social Networks John Buehler
- Advertising Thread Edward Glowacki
- Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
- Histories and Legends paul.schwanz@sun.com
- Histories and Legends Koster, Raph
- Histories and Legends Paul Schwanz
- Histories and Legends Matt Mihaly
- Histories and Legends Paul Schwanz
- Histories and Legends Val Trullinger
- Histories and Legends apollyon
- Histories and Legends Matthew Dobervich
- Histories and Legends Koster, Raph
- Histories and Legends Edward Glowacki
- Histories and Legends Sasha Hart
- Advertising Thread Richard A. Bartle
- Where do you get you numbers? NetEngels@aol.com
- Where do you get you numbers? Dave Rickey
- Mud Advertising Matt Mihaly
- Mud Advertising Christopher Allen
- Mud Advertising Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Online World Timeline slashdotted Koster, Raph
- Online World Timeline slashdotted Lars Duening
- Online World Timeline slashdotted Dave Rickey
- Online World Timeline slashdotted Ted L. Chen
- Online World Timeline slashdotted Russ Whiteman
- Online World Timeline slashdotted Jon A. Lambert
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Fox McCloud
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Jeremy Noetzelman
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Nicolai Hansen
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Freeman, Jeff
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Vincent Archer
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Brack, J. Allen
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Kwon J. Ekstrom
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients brian hook
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Koster, Raph
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sasha Hart
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Phillip Lenhardt
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sasha Hart
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients apollyon
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Travis Nixon
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sean Kelly
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Koster, Raph
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sean Kelly
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Paul Schwanz
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Justin Quimby
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Steve Dieter
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Jesus Lopez
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Nicolai Hansen
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Tess Snider
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christohe Badoit
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Bruce Mitchener
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christophe Badoit
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Fox McCloud
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christophe Badoit
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Edward Glowacki
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients James Ross Nicoll
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Phillip Lenhardt
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Russ Whiteman
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Ian Macintosh
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients damon baker
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients Benjamin Tolputt
- TECH: Trusting Network Clients David H. Loeser Jr.
- Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
- Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
- Natural Selection and Communities Koster, Raph
- Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
- Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
- Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
- Natural Selection and Communities Dave Rickey
- Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
- Natural Selection and Communities Dave Rickey
- Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
- Natural Selection and Communities Crosbie Fitch
- Natural Selection and Communities Koster, Raph
- Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
- Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
- Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
- Natural Selection and Communities Dave Trump
- Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
- Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
- Natural Selection and Communities Damion Schubert
- Natural Selection and Communities Ron Gabbard
- Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
- Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
- Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
- Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
- Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
- Natural Selection and Communities David Kennerly
- Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
- Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
- Peer-to-peer hosting of player created content in persistant worlds. Matthew Dobervich
- Sales data Richard A. Bartle
- Sales data Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Sales data Luca Girardo
- Sales data Richard A. Bartle
- Sales data Rayzam
- Sales data Robert A. Rice, Jr.
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Sasha Hart
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Sasha Hart
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Justin Quimby
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Paul Schwanz
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
- Cans of Achievements and Quests damon baker
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Michael Tresca
- Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
- Muds and High School Textbooks Jon A. Lambert
- Unruly Players (fwd) J C Lawrence