August 2002

• TECH: Path MTU Discovery Eli Stevens
• Matt's java problems.... Adam
• Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
• • Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
  • Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
    • • Non-traditional monsters? Kwon Ekstrom
      • Non-traditional monsters? eric
      • • Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
      • Non-traditional monsters? Damion Schubert
  • Non-traditional monsters? Bruce Mitchener
  • Non-traditional monsters? Edward Glowacki
  • Non-traditional monsters? szii@sziisoft.com
  • Non-traditional monsters? Nathan F. Yospe
• OT: Gen Con? Michael Tresca
• Unique items vs. item references Brian Hook
• • Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
  • • Unique items vs. item references shren
    • • Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
      • • Unique items vs. item references lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
        • Unique items vs. item references Bruce Mitchener
        • • Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
      • Unique items vs. item references fred@clift.org
      • • Unique items vs. item references shren
        • • Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
          • Unique items vs. item references Damion Schubert
          • • Unique items vs. item references Freeman, Jeff
            • Unique items vs. item references Harrok
            • Unique items vs. item references Zach Collins {Siege}
            • • Unique items vs. item references Rayzam
          • Unique items vs. item references fred@clift.org
      • Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
    • Unique items vs. item references Koster, Raph
    • Unique items vs. item references Dave Rickey
    • • Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
      • • Unique items vs. item references Dave Rickey
  • Unique items vs. item references Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • Unique items vs. item references Sean Kelly
  • Unique items vs. item references Damion Schubert
  • Unique items vs. item references Smith, David {Lynchburg}
  • • Unique items vs. item references Sean Kelly
• Character skill amplifying player skill Brian Hook
• • Character skill amplifying player skill Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • Character skill amplifying player skill Ling Lo
• narrative Bruce Mitchener
• • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
  • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
    • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
      • • narrative John Buehler
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
        • narrative Jeff Lindsey
        • narrative Bruce Mitchener
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
          • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
          • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
        • narrative Nathan F. Yospe
      • narrative Joe Andrieu
      • • narrative Dave Rickey
        • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
          • • narrative Dave Rickey
            • narrative John Robert Arras
            • • narrative Dave Rickey
              • • narrative Jeremy Noetzelman
                • • narrative dmiles@users.sourceforge.net
                • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                • • narrative Dave Rickey
          • narrative Joe Andrieu
        • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
        • • narrative Brad Roberts
          • • narrative Matt Mihaly
            • • narrative dmiles@users.sourceforge.net
              • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • • narrative Vincent Archer
                  • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                    • • narrative Vincent Archer
                    • narrative Damion Schubert
                • narrative Ron Gabbard
                • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                  • narrative Matt Mihaly
        • narrative John Robert Arras
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
          • • narrative John Robert Arras
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
  • narrative Robert Zubek
  • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
    • • narrative Robert Zubek
      • narrative Ted L. Chen
    • narrative dmiles@users.sourceforge.net
  • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
  • • narrative Joe Andrieu
    • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
      • • narrative Joe Andrieu
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
          • • narrative Freeman, Jeff
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • narrative John Buehler
              • narrative Vincent Archer
              • narrative Paul E. Schwanz, II
            • narrative Amanda Walker
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Jeremy Noetzelman
                • narrative Amanda Walker
                • narrative Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
                • narrative Zach Collins {Siege}
                • narrative Dave Rickey
              • narrative Ron Gabbard
              • • narrative Amanda Walker
                • • narrative Sasha Hart
            • narrative Christopher Kohnert
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                  • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                    • narrative Damion Schubert
                    • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • narrative Zach Collins {Siege}
          • narrative Bruce Mitchener
          • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
            • narrative Joe Andrieu
    • narrative Nathan F. Yospe
  • narrative Sasha Hart
  • narrative Benjamin Tolputt
• [Fwd: [Algorithms] ANNOUNCE: updated Chunked LOD demo] Bruce Mitchener
• (no subject) Jack Britt
• • (no subject) Brandon J. Van Every
  • • (no subject) Jack Britt
    • • (no subject) Jeff Lindsey
      • (no subject) Karl Bastiman
    • (no subject) Zach Collins {Siege}
• Advertising Thread Rayzam
• • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
    • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
    • Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
    • • Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
      • • Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
        • • Advertising Thread Kristen Koster
    • Advertising Thread Rayzam
    • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
      • • Advertising Thread Shannon Appelcline
        • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
        • Advertising Thread Rayzam
        • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
        • • Advertising Thread Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
          • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
            • • Advertising Thread Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
            • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
            • • Advertising Thread Jeremy Noetzelman
              • Advertising Thread Amanda Walker
              • • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
            • Advertising Thread Jeremy Gaffney
        • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
        • • Advertising Thread Michael Tresca
  • Advertising Thread Dave Rickey
  • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
• skills (was (no subject)) Travis Casey
• The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Derek Licciardi
• • The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Crosbie Fitch
  • The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Valerio Santinelli
  • The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Russ Whiteman
• Socket Code Stephen Miller
• • Socket Code Smith, David {Lynchburg}
  • Socket Code Blane Bramble
• Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
• • Origins of "carebear" Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • • Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
  • Origins of "carebear" Madrona Tree
  • • Origins of "carebear" Calandryll
    • Origins of "carebear" Dave Trump
  • Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
• The total DBMS approach Aaron "the mad man" Weeks
• • The total DBMS approach Derek Licciardi
  • • The total DBMS approach Hanz, Rob
    • • The total DBMS approach Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
      • • The total DBMS approach Sean Kelly
        • The total DBMS approach Hanz, Rob
        • The total DBMS approach Elia Mörling
  • The total DBMS approach Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • The total DBMS approach Ian Macintosh
• Otherland Richard A. Bartle
• • Otherland shren
  • • Otherland Richard A. Bartle
    • • Otherland shren
  • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • • Otherland Richard A. Bartle
    • • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • Otherland Dan Homerick
• Efficiency in providing entertainment John Buehler
• Noncombat(and combat) skills WAS: (no subject) "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
• Mountaineering and Athletics Brandon J. Van Every
• • Mountaineering and Athletics Damion Schubert
  • • Mountaineering and Athletics John Buehler
    • • Mountaineering and Athletics Poe, Lawrence
  • Mountaineering and Athletics Vincent Archer
• Noncombat(and combat) skills Jo Dillon
• • Noncombat(and combat) skills "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
• They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Jack Britt
• • They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Brandon J. Van Every
  • They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Artovil
  • They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Zach Collins {Siege}
• What Ever Happened to Imaginary Realities? Phillip Lenhardt
• • What Ever Happened to Imaginary Realities? Richard A. Bartle
• Butterfly.net Matt Mihaly
• • Butterfly.net Freeman, Jeff
  • • Butterfly.net Luca Girardo
  • Butterfly.net Luca Girardo
• Mythology Articles Shannon Appelcline
• Item handling (was: Advertising Thread) Jeff Lindsey
• Advertising Thread Brad McQuaid
• • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Advertising Thread Damion Schubert
    • • Advertising Thread Marc Bowden
      • • Advertising Thread Damion Schubert
      • Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
  • Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
  • • Advertising Thread Brad McQuaid
    • • Advertising Thread Dave Rickey
      • • Advertising Thread Marc LaFleur
        • • Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
          • • Advertising Thread Marc LaFleur
            • • Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
        • Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
        • • Advertising Thread Zach Collins {Siege}
          • • Advertising Thread Ron Gabbard
  • Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
• Social Networks Dave Rickey
  I was discussing a MMOG design idea with someone offlist, and
  realized that I was going through yet another variant of the "The
  game is the community" loop, but this time with some variation.
  What we started with was the idea (often discussed on this list)
  that fantasy-themed OLRPG's are limiting their market, because
  swords and dragon and magic are too "out there" for most people.
  
  That's a common perception, and mostly accurate from a marketing
  perspective, but not directly relevant. Certainly there's some
  causality there, UO, EQ, and Camelot all got their initial seed
  populations from the hardcore fantasy fans. But that's not why they
  have succeeded. They've succeeded because the classic
  Tank/Healer/Nuker group dependancy triad is an extremely powerful
  engine for building social links.
  
  These games are communities. That's been said, but never really
  explained, mostly because even many of those who say it are simply
  stating an observation. They don't know *why* these games are
  communities, and something with broader appeal like online card
  games is not. But it all goes back to that Tank/Healer/Nuker triad.
  
  There's been a lot of research into the workings of networks
  (networks as a theoretical entity, not just electronic networks) in
  the last few years (and will likely be a few Nobel prizes handed out
  for some breakthroughs in that time). Much of this has been an
  analysis of social networks. One of the things that has been
  discovered is that social networks, left to themselves, tend to be
  lumpy. Social bonds can have various properties, and it is
  difficult to describe exactly what constitutes a "strong" link, but
  an overwhelming characteristic is that generally the strong bonds
  come in clusters, the people you have strong bonds with tend to have
  strong bonds to each other. For example, you probably have strong
  bonds with your parents, who have a strong bond with each other
  (even if divorced, social bonds indicate intensity of a relationship
  and no matter how your parents feel about each other it is unlikely
  they are indifferent), and with your siblings.
  
  Another property of networks is how much connectivity they have,
  basicly defined by how many links the average node has. An example
  of low vs. high connectivity would be to contrast old-style
  neighborhoods with modern suburbia. In the old neighborhoods,
  everyone knew everyone else around, by face and name, and knew their
  history and that of their family members. Virtually every member
  had a direct social link to everyone else in the neighborhood. This
  makes a dense social network. At the other extreme, I live in a
  townhouse development full of dual-income, no-kids households. I
  have only met the people living in the townhouse next door (with
  whom I share an interior wall) once, and I don't know their names.
  In the terminology of networks, I am a weakly connected leaf node,
  and my neighborhood is a sparse social network. I have no sense of
  "belonging" to that neighborhood, it is just one of many places I
  have lived in my life, and one I could leave at any time without a
  sense of loss.
  
  In the context of MMOG's, the strongest connections we can foster
  through direct game design are those built by cooperatively fighting
  together in pursuit of individual rewards (XP and loot, RP and
  glory). Even though the fighting is virtual, humans are hard-wired
  at a basic level to feel closely tied to those they have cooperated
  with in combat. Then, because good XP gain requires having members
  of the right classes operating off the same plan, guilds are formed
  so people can always find a "good" group (along with a lot of
  complaining about how the game "forces" them to group). The virtual
  intimacy of combat is then reinforced by the real social bonds of
  friendship as people spend their "downtime" chatting about their
  lives, both real and virtual. From that point on, people aren't
  paying to play the game, they're paying to hang out with their
  friends, the game is just something they do together.
  
  I believe the reason why Motor City Online has been so marginal is
  because it has no group objectives at all, only individual goals.
  WW2O, on the other hand, has the problem that its only meaningful
  goals are *too* group-centric, there is no small-scale
  organizational dynamic that is directly rewarded. If WW2O had some
  kind of graduated progression from individual combat to squad-level,
  the army-level combat that is the centerpiece of the of the game
  would be much more approachable (because battalions and regiments
  would be much easier to assemble, and people would already be
  integrated into the social mileau).
  
  The problem with the concepts thrown around for many potential
  MMOG's are not that the game appeals to people outside the geek
  fraternity, but because they offer no obvious hooks on which to hang
  a small-scale group experience, few social ties are generated and
  most of those tend to be of the weakest sort, the casual bantering
  of people who happen to be doing the same thing in the same "place".
  
  Now, that is not neccessarily an insurmountable barrier, certainly
  one could build a socializing core into many different games. But
  without building it around such a core and keeping it constantly in
  mind, you might have difficulty preventing some equivalent of the
  "Tankmage" problem where your social engine is stalled out by people
  who find the combination of gameplay elements that make them
  independant from your social ties. Once it is found, it will be
  widely used by players, because dependancy on others is seen at a
  gut level as a weakness. The downside of weakness is immediate and
  visceral, the upside of social ties is delayed and cerebral, and
  people in these games overwhelmingly pursue the short-term payoff.
  The result is a crowd of individuals with no social ties, who
  eventually reach the limit of your gameplay and leave. What's
  worse, they will reach the limits of that limited subset of your
  gameplay that can be pursued with the "solo" templates, which will
  happen much sooner that they could exhaust the entirety. There has
  been literally thousands of man-years of work put into perfecting
  the Tank/Nuker/Healer triad in a fantasy setting, millions if you
  count the player time spent breaking it in various games.
  
  What struck me as I was writing this the first time was how much
  more applicable network theory had been to this problem than any
  other approach I had seen. A previously intractable problem,
  explaining why some games developed robust communities and some
  didn't, becomes painfully obvious when analyzed as a problem in
  network theory (the magic word is "criticality"). I know Raph must
  have been looking into this field, from some remarks he made a few
  months back, but I'm wondering if anyone else has tried examining
  these games in terms of their network properties?
  
  --Dave
• • Social Networks Brian 'Psychochild' Green
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
    • • Social Networks Brian 'Psychochild' Green
      • Social Networks Bruce Mitchener
      • • Social Networks Harrok
        • • Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
          • Social Networks Sage
          • • Social Networks Damion Schubert
          • Social Networks Matt Mihaly
          • • Social Networks Harrok
            • • Social Networks Matt Mihaly
        • Social Networks Tess Snider
        • • Social Networks Paul Schwanz
          • • Social Networks Bruce Mitchener
            • • Social Networks Paul Schwanz
              • • Social Networks Michael Tresca
                • Social Networks Marian Griffith
                • • Social Networks Zach Collins {Siege}
  • Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
  • Social Networks Koster, Raph
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
  • Social Networks Sasha Hart
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
    • • Social Networks Koster, Raph
      • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
        • • Social Networks Koster, Raph
          • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
            • • Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
              • Social Networks Jeff Cole
              • • Social Networks Koster, Raph
                • • Social Networks Jeff Cole
                • Social Networks Matthew Dobervich
                • • Social Networks Jeff Cole
                • Social Networks Dave Rickey
        • Social Networks Jeff Cole
      • Social Networks Sasha Hart
  • Social Networks Nicolai Hansen
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
  • Social Networks Paul E. Schwanz, II
  • • Social Networks Sasha Hart
    • • Social Networks paul.schwanz@sun.com
      • • Social Networks Sasha Hart
      • Social Networks Matt Mihaly
    • Social Networks John Buehler
• Advertising Thread Edward Glowacki
• • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
• Histories and Legends paul.schwanz@sun.com
• • Histories and Legends Koster, Raph
  • • Histories and Legends Paul Schwanz
    • Histories and Legends Matt Mihaly
    • • Histories and Legends Paul Schwanz
    • Histories and Legends Val Trullinger
  • Histories and Legends apollyon
  • • Histories and Legends Matthew Dobervich
    • • Histories and Legends Koster, Raph
      • Histories and Legends Edward Glowacki
      • • Histories and Legends Sasha Hart
• Advertising Thread Richard A. Bartle
• Where do you get you numbers? NetEngels@aol.com
• • Where do you get you numbers? Dave Rickey
• Mud Advertising Matt Mihaly
• • Mud Advertising Christopher Allen
  • • Mud Advertising Brian 'Psychochild' Green
• Online World Timeline slashdotted Koster, Raph
• • Online World Timeline slashdotted Lars Duening
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Dave Rickey
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Ted L. Chen
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Russ Whiteman
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Jon A. Lambert
• TECH: Trusting Network Clients Fox McCloud
• • TECH: Trusting Network Clients "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Jeremy Noetzelman
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Nicolai Hansen
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
    • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Freeman, Jeff
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Vincent Archer
        • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Brack, J. Allen
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Kwon J. Ekstrom
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients brian hook
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Koster, Raph
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sasha Hart
        • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Phillip Lenhardt
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sasha Hart
        • TECH: Trusting Network Clients apollyon
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Travis Nixon
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sean Kelly
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Koster, Raph
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sean Kelly
          • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Paul Schwanz
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Justin Quimby
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Steve Dieter
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Jesus Lopez
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Nicolai Hansen
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Tess Snider
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christohe Badoit
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Bruce Mitchener
    • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christophe Badoit
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Fox McCloud
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christophe Badoit
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Edward Glowacki
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients James Ross Nicoll
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Phillip Lenhardt
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Russ Whiteman
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Ian Macintosh
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients damon baker
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Benjamin Tolputt
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients David H. Loeser Jr.
• Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
• • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
  • • Natural Selection and Communities Koster, Raph
    • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
    • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
    • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
      • • Natural Selection and Communities Dave Rickey
        • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
          • • Natural Selection and Communities Dave Rickey
            • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
              • • Natural Selection and Communities Crosbie Fitch
        • Natural Selection and Communities Koster, Raph
        • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
          • • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
            • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
        • Natural Selection and Communities Dave Trump
        • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
        • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
          • • Natural Selection and Communities Damion Schubert
      • Natural Selection and Communities Ron Gabbard
  • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
  • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
    • • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
      • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
        • • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
  • Natural Selection and Communities David Kennerly
  • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
    • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
• Peer-to-peer hosting of player created content in persistant worlds. Matthew Dobervich
• Sales data Richard A. Bartle
• • Sales data Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • Sales data Luca Girardo
  • Sales data Richard A. Bartle
  • • Sales data Rayzam
  • Sales data Robert A. Rice, Jr.
• Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
• • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
  • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
    • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
      • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sasha Hart
        • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
          • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sasha Hart
        • Cans of Achievements and Quests Justin Quimby
        • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
      • Cans of Achievements and Quests Paul Schwanz
      • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
        • • Cans of Achievements and Quests damon baker
          • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
            • Cans of Achievements and Quests Michael Tresca
  • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
• Muds and High School Textbooks Jon A. Lambert
• Unruly Players (fwd) J C Lawrence