August 2002

• TECH: Path MTU Discovery Eli Stevens
• Matt's java problems.... Adam
• Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
• • Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
  • Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Non-traditional monsters? Jack Britt
    • • Non-traditional monsters? Kwon Ekstrom
      • Non-traditional monsters? eric
      • • Non-traditional monsters? Brandon J. Van Every
      • Non-traditional monsters? Damion Schubert
  • Non-traditional monsters? Bruce Mitchener
  • Non-traditional monsters? Edward Glowacki
  • Non-traditional monsters? szii@sziisoft.com
  • Non-traditional monsters? Nathan F. Yospe
• OT: Gen Con? Michael Tresca
• Unique items vs. item references Brian Hook
• • Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
  • • Unique items vs. item references shren
    • • Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
      • • Unique items vs. item references lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
        • Unique items vs. item references Bruce Mitchener
        • • Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
      • Unique items vs. item references fred@clift.org
      • • Unique items vs. item references shren
        • • Unique items vs. item references Brandon J. Van Every
          • Unique items vs. item references Damion Schubert
          • • Unique items vs. item references Freeman, Jeff
            • Unique items vs. item references Harrok
            • Unique items vs. item references Zach Collins {Siege}
            • • Unique items vs. item references Rayzam
          • Unique items vs. item references fred@clift.org
      • Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
    • Unique items vs. item references Koster, Raph
    • Unique items vs. item references Dave Rickey
    • • Unique items vs. item references Vincent Archer
      • • Unique items vs. item references Dave Rickey
  • Unique items vs. item references Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • Unique items vs. item references Sean Kelly
  • Unique items vs. item references Damion Schubert
  • Unique items vs. item references Smith, David {Lynchburg}
  • • Unique items vs. item references Sean Kelly
• Character skill amplifying player skill Brian Hook
• • Character skill amplifying player skill Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • Character skill amplifying player skill Ling Lo
• narrative Bruce Mitchener
• • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
  • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
    • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
      • • narrative John Buehler
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
        • narrative Jeff Lindsey
        • narrative Bruce Mitchener
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
          • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
          • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
        • narrative Nathan F. Yospe
      • narrative Joe Andrieu
      • • narrative Dave Rickey
        • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
          • • narrative Dave Rickey
            • narrative John Robert Arras
            • • narrative Dave Rickey
              • • narrative Jeremy Noetzelman
                • • narrative dmiles@users.sourceforge.net
                • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                • • narrative Dave Rickey
          • narrative Joe Andrieu
        • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
        • • narrative Brad Roberts
          • • narrative Matt Mihaly
            • • narrative dmiles@users.sourceforge.net
              • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • • narrative Vincent Archer
                  • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                    • • narrative Vincent Archer
                    • narrative Damion Schubert
                • narrative Ron Gabbard
                • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                  • narrative Matt Mihaly
        • narrative John Robert Arras
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
          • • narrative John Robert Arras
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                    Matt Mihaly wrote:
                    > Brandon J. Van Every wrote:
                    >> John Robert Arras wrote:
                    
                    >>> I am not interested in writing stories.
                    
                    >> Then we're not on the same page. Maybe you could start a new
                    >> thread with a different title?
                    
                    > Why? It's called "Narrative" not "Writing". They aren't the same
                    > thing. Writing is just one way to convey a narrative, though you
                    > aren't willing to recognize that apparently.
                    
                    Ok, so it appears you're going to branch off into how people make up
                    their own narratives for themselves.
                    
                    > Frankly, for me at least, the sophistication of Morrowind is
                    > almost enough for me. I am having such a good time in that world,
                    > and the stories coming out of it are actually interesting to me. A
                    > good friend of mine who is also playing Morrowind and I have spent
                    > literally hours on the phone to each other eagerly relating our
                    > trials, tribulations, and triumphs of our characters, and to me,
                    > this is the best kind of storytelling.
                    
                    Oh dear! We are most definitely *not* on the same page. So pardon
                    if I don't respond further to any of your points, and instead refer
                    you to my long rants about the storytelling problems of Morrowind:
                    
                    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=hFlY8.13073%24Kx3.3991%40newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net
                    
                    <EdNote: Quoted>
                    
                    --<cut>--
                    From: Brandon Van Every (vanevery@3DProgrammer.com)
                    Subject: MW - what's the point?
                    Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg
                    Date: 2002-07-14 14:02:23 PST
                    
                    Last week I binge played Morrowind to the exclusion of most other
                    life activities, including sleep. I uninstalled it once and
                    reinstalled it. My positive takeaways were:
                    
                    - interesting scenery. The graphics are good. But, having said
                    that, they're not infinitely good and they do get old.
                    Particularly when elements are reused, like Vivee style waistwork
                    buildings, and every shop looks like every other shop. Actually
                    I'd even criticize the lighting, coloration, and texture as far
                    too uniform. It looks pretty the first time you see it. It looks
                    pretty the 100th time you see it. It gets old the 1000th time
                    you've seen it. Morrowind offers a lot graphically, but it's not
                    the be-all end-all of either aesthetic achievement or artistic
                    variety.
                    
                    - found a shrine that allows me to fly for a really, really long
                    time. Well, at least it seemed like a long time to me! I hadn't
                    done any flying, and it seemed like my potions only lasted 60
                    seconds or whatever. With this shrine, I flew halfway across the
                    continent. I could have made it the whole way, but I stopped to
                    look at things and to get out of the way of cliff racers. I
                    thought it was cool to get bird's eye access to the entire world
                    model.
                    
                    - murdered many townspeople. I liked wearing fucked up
                    cross-dressing outfits and one of my characters was named Silence
                    Of The Lambs. But, having said that, it wasn't as much fun after
                    the 20th victim or so. People take too long to die, they die in
                    the same way, and they have bad fighting dialogue. I'd like to
                    make a CRPG someday that is more rewarding for those playing
                    serial killer, but isn't explicitly about serial killing. Like, I
                    got a real thrill in Thief the 1st time I knocked someone out,
                    then threw their body over my shoulder, dragged them down a dark
                    hole, and dumped 'em in the river. They drowned, it was so evil!
                    I didn't succeed at my ultimate goal however, which was to murder
                    everybody. First off, the guards are too tough. I levelled up a
                    lot, it took a long time, I could probably beat a single guard but
                    it would take awhile and I'd have to use a bunch of magic items,
                    healing potions, blah blah blah. Second, "murder everybody?" I
                    started to realize how many people that would be, and how un-fun
                    it would be. Like I said, it got old after the 20th victim or so.
                    
                    - I stole a lot. I know where pretty much all the good stuff in
                    all the shops is. Problem is, stealing everything, selling
                    everything, and then training everything takes a long time. It
                    got old.
                    
                    In contrast to these positives, I found the quests I went on
                    completely boring. Thieves' Guild quests suck! Like running out
                    for coffee. The only thing you get out of that is a rank, and I
                    have no idea if the rank is worth anything, only that it's painful
                    and tedious to get. It certainly isn't worth the money, they don't
                    pay you shit for what you steal compared to what you can do for
                    yourself. As for levelling up, I seriously don't think it's worth
                    the time, because if you're making a lot of money you can buy your
                    experience, and if you just spend tons of time you'll level up
                    anyways.
                    
                    I never actually did the Blades quests. For a long time, getting
                    the Dwemer Cube was way too hard. I'd get fried just by the stupid
                    magician at the bridge! So I'd go steal everything instead. Made a
                    lot of money, learned that Thieves' Guild quests suck, so I figured
                    Blade quests probably suck too. Now I've got a guy who's powerful
                    enough to kick a lot of things ass, but what's the point? I've seen
                    the Dwemer scenery, iron doors and all of that. The outsides look
                    kinda cool but the insides? Big deal. It's not really very good
                    level stuff as compared to Thief II for instance.
                    
                    Really, I've gotten no story out of Morrowind. Well, no *focused*
                    story. There's plenty of backstories and atmospherics. But what
                    the hell am I doing here? Why should I care about any of the quests
                    at all? My attitude is ok, I've seen what everything looks like, so
                    I've extracted the play value from the game. Is there something
                    spectacular that I'm missing here? If there is, then Morrowind does
                    a lousy job of delivering it and making me aware that it's
                    available.
                    
                    Really, you get off the boat and are told to "go here." Well, like,
                    why should I care about that?
                    --<cut>--
                    
                    
                    Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
                    Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA
                    
                    20% of the world is real.
                    80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
  • narrative Robert Zubek
  • • narrative Bruce Mitchener
    • • narrative Robert Zubek
      • narrative Ted L. Chen
    • narrative dmiles@users.sourceforge.net
  • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
  • • narrative Joe Andrieu
    • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
      • • narrative Joe Andrieu
        • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
          • • narrative Freeman, Jeff
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • narrative John Buehler
              • narrative Vincent Archer
              • narrative Paul E. Schwanz, II
            • narrative Amanda Walker
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Jeremy Noetzelman
                • narrative Amanda Walker
                • narrative Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
                • narrative Zach Collins {Siege}
                • narrative Dave Rickey
              • narrative Ron Gabbard
              • • narrative Amanda Walker
                • • narrative Sasha Hart
            • narrative Christopher Kohnert
            • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
              • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
                  • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                    • narrative Damion Schubert
                    • • narrative Matt Mihaly
                • narrative Zach Collins {Siege}
          • narrative Bruce Mitchener
          • • narrative Brandon J. Van Every
            • narrative Joe Andrieu
    • narrative Nathan F. Yospe
  • narrative Sasha Hart
  • narrative Benjamin Tolputt
• [Fwd: [Algorithms] ANNOUNCE: updated Chunked LOD demo] Bruce Mitchener
• (no subject) Jack Britt
• • (no subject) Brandon J. Van Every
  • • (no subject) Jack Britt
    • • (no subject) Jeff Lindsey
      • (no subject) Karl Bastiman
    • (no subject) Zach Collins {Siege}
• Advertising Thread Rayzam
• • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
    • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
    • Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
    • • Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
      • • Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
        • • Advertising Thread Kristen Koster
    • Advertising Thread Rayzam
    • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
      • • Advertising Thread Shannon Appelcline
        • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
        • Advertising Thread Rayzam
        • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
        • • Advertising Thread Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
          • • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
            • • Advertising Thread Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
            • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
            • • Advertising Thread Jeremy Noetzelman
              • Advertising Thread Amanda Walker
              • • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
            • Advertising Thread Jeremy Gaffney
        • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
        • • Advertising Thread Michael Tresca
  • Advertising Thread Dave Rickey
  • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
• skills (was (no subject)) Travis Casey
• The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Derek Licciardi
• • The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Crosbie Fitch
  • The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Valerio Santinelli
  • The total DBMS approach (was: Unique items vs. item references) Russ Whiteman
• Socket Code Stephen Miller
• • Socket Code Smith, David {Lynchburg}
  • Socket Code Blane Bramble
• Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
• • Origins of "carebear" Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • • Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
  • Origins of "carebear" Madrona Tree
  • • Origins of "carebear" Calandryll
    • Origins of "carebear" Dave Trump
  • Origins of "carebear" Koster, Raph
• The total DBMS approach Aaron "the mad man" Weeks
• • The total DBMS approach Derek Licciardi
  • • The total DBMS approach Hanz, Rob
    • • The total DBMS approach Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
      • • The total DBMS approach Sean Kelly
        • The total DBMS approach Hanz, Rob
        • The total DBMS approach Elia Mörling
  • The total DBMS approach Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • The total DBMS approach Ian Macintosh
• Otherland Richard A. Bartle
• • Otherland shren
  • • Otherland Richard A. Bartle
    • • Otherland shren
  • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • • Otherland Richard A. Bartle
    • • Otherland Steve {Bloo} Daniels
  • Otherland Dan Homerick
• Efficiency in providing entertainment John Buehler
• Noncombat(and combat) skills WAS: (no subject) "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
• Mountaineering and Athletics Brandon J. Van Every
• • Mountaineering and Athletics Damion Schubert
  • • Mountaineering and Athletics John Buehler
    • • Mountaineering and Athletics Poe, Lawrence
  • Mountaineering and Athletics Vincent Archer
• Noncombat(and combat) skills Jo Dillon
• • Noncombat(and combat) skills "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
• They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Jack Britt
• • They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Brandon J. Van Every
  • They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Artovil
  • They fight! And bite! They fight and bite and fight! Fight fight fight! Bite bite bite! Zach Collins {Siege}
• What Ever Happened to Imaginary Realities? Phillip Lenhardt
• • What Ever Happened to Imaginary Realities? Richard A. Bartle
• Butterfly.net Matt Mihaly
• • Butterfly.net Freeman, Jeff
  • • Butterfly.net Luca Girardo
  • Butterfly.net Luca Girardo
• Mythology Articles Shannon Appelcline
• Item handling (was: Advertising Thread) Jeff Lindsey
• Advertising Thread Brad McQuaid
• • Advertising Thread Brandon J. Van Every
  • • Advertising Thread Damion Schubert
    • • Advertising Thread Marc Bowden
      • • Advertising Thread Damion Schubert
      • Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
  • Advertising Thread Russ Whiteman
  • • Advertising Thread Brad McQuaid
    • • Advertising Thread Dave Rickey
      • • Advertising Thread Marc LaFleur
        • • Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
          • • Advertising Thread Marc LaFleur
            • • Advertising Thread Koster, Raph
        • Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
        • • Advertising Thread Zach Collins {Siege}
          • • Advertising Thread Ron Gabbard
  • Advertising Thread Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
• Social Networks Dave Rickey
• • Social Networks Brian 'Psychochild' Green
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
    • • Social Networks Brian 'Psychochild' Green
      • Social Networks Bruce Mitchener
      • • Social Networks Harrok
        • • Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
          • Social Networks Sage
          • • Social Networks Damion Schubert
          • Social Networks Matt Mihaly
          • • Social Networks Harrok
            • • Social Networks Matt Mihaly
        • Social Networks Tess Snider
        • • Social Networks Paul Schwanz
          • • Social Networks Bruce Mitchener
            • • Social Networks Paul Schwanz
              • • Social Networks Michael Tresca
                • Social Networks Marian Griffith
                • • Social Networks Zach Collins {Siege}
  • Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
  • Social Networks Koster, Raph
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
  • Social Networks Sasha Hart
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
    • • Social Networks Koster, Raph
      • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
        • • Social Networks Koster, Raph
          • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
            • • Social Networks Freeman, Jeff
              • Social Networks Jeff Cole
              • • Social Networks Koster, Raph
                • • Social Networks Jeff Cole
                • Social Networks Matthew Dobervich
                • • Social Networks Jeff Cole
                • Social Networks Dave Rickey
        • Social Networks Jeff Cole
      • Social Networks Sasha Hart
  • Social Networks Nicolai Hansen
  • • Social Networks Dave Rickey
  • Social Networks Paul E. Schwanz, II
  • • Social Networks Sasha Hart
    • • Social Networks paul.schwanz@sun.com
      • • Social Networks Sasha Hart
      • Social Networks Matt Mihaly
    • Social Networks John Buehler
• Advertising Thread Edward Glowacki
• • Advertising Thread Matt Mihaly
• Histories and Legends paul.schwanz@sun.com
• • Histories and Legends Koster, Raph
  • • Histories and Legends Paul Schwanz
    • Histories and Legends Matt Mihaly
    • • Histories and Legends Paul Schwanz
    • Histories and Legends Val Trullinger
  • Histories and Legends apollyon
  • • Histories and Legends Matthew Dobervich
    • • Histories and Legends Koster, Raph
      • Histories and Legends Edward Glowacki
      • • Histories and Legends Sasha Hart
• Advertising Thread Richard A. Bartle
• Where do you get you numbers? NetEngels@aol.com
• • Where do you get you numbers? Dave Rickey
• Mud Advertising Matt Mihaly
• • Mud Advertising Christopher Allen
  • • Mud Advertising Brian 'Psychochild' Green
• Online World Timeline slashdotted Koster, Raph
• • Online World Timeline slashdotted Lars Duening
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Dave Rickey
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Ted L. Chen
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Russ Whiteman
  • Online World Timeline slashdotted Jon A. Lambert
• TECH: Trusting Network Clients Fox McCloud
• • TECH: Trusting Network Clients "Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?="< arocas@alumni.uv.es>
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Jeremy Noetzelman
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Nicolai Hansen
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
    • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Freeman, Jeff
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Vincent Archer
        • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Brack, J. Allen
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Kwon J. Ekstrom
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients brian hook
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Koster, Raph
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sasha Hart
        • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Phillip Lenhardt
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sasha Hart
        • TECH: Trusting Network Clients apollyon
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Travis Nixon
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sean Kelly
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Koster, Raph
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Sean Kelly
          • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Paul Schwanz
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Justin Quimby
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Steve Dieter
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Jesus Lopez
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Nicolai Hansen
      • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Tess Snider
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Crosbie Fitch
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christohe Badoit
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Bruce Mitchener
    • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christophe Badoit
      • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Fox McCloud
        • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Christophe Badoit
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Edward Glowacki
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients James Ross Nicoll
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Phillip Lenhardt
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Russ Whiteman
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Ian Macintosh
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients damon baker
  • • TECH: Trusting Network Clients Benjamin Tolputt
  • TECH: Trusting Network Clients David H. Loeser Jr.
• Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
• • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
  • • Natural Selection and Communities Koster, Raph
    • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
    • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
    • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
      • • Natural Selection and Communities Dave Rickey
        • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
          • • Natural Selection and Communities Dave Rickey
            • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
              • • Natural Selection and Communities Crosbie Fitch
        • Natural Selection and Communities Koster, Raph
        • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
          • • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
            • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
        • Natural Selection and Communities Dave Trump
        • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
        • • Natural Selection and Communities John Buehler
          • • Natural Selection and Communities Damion Schubert
      • Natural Selection and Communities Ron Gabbard
  • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
  • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
    • • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
      • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
        • • Natural Selection and Communities Matt Mihaly
  • Natural Selection and Communities David Kennerly
  • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
    • • Natural Selection and Communities Paul Schwanz
• Peer-to-peer hosting of player created content in persistant worlds. Matthew Dobervich
• Sales data Richard A. Bartle
• • Sales data Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • Sales data Luca Girardo
  • Sales data Richard A. Bartle
  • • Sales data Rayzam
  • Sales data Robert A. Rice, Jr.
• Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
• • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
  • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
    • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
      • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sasha Hart
        • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sean Kelly
          • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Sasha Hart
        • Cans of Achievements and Quests Justin Quimby
        • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
      • Cans of Achievements and Quests Paul Schwanz
      • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
        • • Cans of Achievements and Quests damon baker
          • • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
            • Cans of Achievements and Quests Michael Tresca
  • Cans of Achievements and Quests Rayzam
• Muds and High School Textbooks Jon A. Lambert
• Unruly Players (fwd) J C Lawrence