May 2002
- Random Resets John Robert Arras
- Random Resets Kwon Ekstrom
- Random Resets John Robert Arras
- [MLP] The use of ecology models Rayzam
- Interesting things to do (was: Player Accounts on a Non-Commercial MUD) John Buehler
- Apple WWDC? amanda@alfar.com
- Apple WWDC? Nathan F. Yospe
- Apple WWDC? Amanda Walker
- Apple WWDC? Sasha Hart
- Apple WWDC? amanda@alfar.com
- Apple WWDC? Brian Hook
- Apple WWDC? John A. Bertoglio
- Apple WWDC? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Apple WWDC? Matt Mihaly
- Apple WWDC? shren
- Apple WWDC? Matt Mihaly
- Apple WWDC? John A. Bertoglio
- Apple WWDC? James Edward Gray II
- Apple WWDC? Brian Hook
- Encouraging groups without grouping Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Introduction and My solution to Powergamers, Treadmills, and Content Devaluation. Ken Raisor
- The audience is the medium. For now. John Szeder
- The audience is the medium. For now. John Buehler
- The audience is the medium. For now. Damion Schubert
- The audience is the medium. For now. Ted L. Chen
- The audience is the medium. For now. Shane Gough
- The audience is the medium. For now. Michael Tresca
- The audience is the medium. For now. Ted L. Chen
- The audience is the medium. For now. Marian Griffith
- The audience is the medium. For now. Vincent Archer
- The audience is the medium. For now. Damion Schubert
- The audience is the medium. For now. David B. Held
- The audience is the medium. For now. Ted L. Chen
- The audience is the medium. For now. Marian Griffith
- The audience is the medium. For now. F. Randall Farmer
- The audience is the medium. For now. J C Lawrence
- The audience is the medium. For now. Frank Crowell
- Ownership of characters Jasper McChesney
- Explorers? (Was: Codename Blue & Facets - Nick Yee's new studies) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Befriending Critters (was: Random Resets) Arthaey
- Questions about server design Ben Chambers
- Questions about server design Michael Bayne
- Questions about server design Sean Middleditch
- Questions about server design Mike Shaver
- Questions about server design Kwon Ekstrom
- Questions about server design szii@sziisoft.com
- Questions about server design F. Randall Farmer
- Questions about server design James Edward Gray II
- Questions about server design Shane Gough
- Extensibility Ben Chambers
- Extensibility Ammon Lauritzen
- Extensibility Kwon Ekstrom
- Extensibility Ben Chambers
- Extensibility "Christopher {siege} " OBrien
- Extensibility Sean Middleditch
- Extensibility Sean Kelly
- Extensibility John Buehler
- Extensibility shren
- Extensibility John Buehler
- Extensibility szii@sziisoft.com
- Extensibility John Buehler
- Extensibility szii@sziisoft.com
- Extensibility Mike Shaver
- Question: Any published research on Sims type game personae? susan wu
- [MLP] Why care about levels? (was: The use of ecolo Richard Woolcock
- [MLP] Why care about levels? (was: The use of ecolo gy models) Jon Lambert
- Component Design (was: Extensibility) Scion Altera
- [BIZ] Selling Stock (formerly Blacksnow revisted ) Robert A. Rice, Jr.
- Games are Hot. Period Michael Tresca
- Games are Hot. Period Gladimir
- Games are Hot. Period Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Games are Hot. Period Freeman, Jeff
- Games are Hot. Period Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Games are Hot. Period Koster, Raph
- Games are Hot. Period Vincent Archer
- Games are Hot. Period Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Games are Hot. Period Matt Mihaly
- fun Matt Mihaly
- [TECH] Shortest Path William Murdick
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Eli Stevens
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Jon Leonard
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Robert Zubek
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction ceo@grexengine.com
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Koster, Raph
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Rudy Neeser
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Matt Mihaly
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Mike Shaver
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction amanda@alfar.com
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Koster, Raph
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Combat with Style (was Player Accounts on a Non-Commercial MUD) lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- Playskins Koster, Raph
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. Sasha Hart
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. John Buehler
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?=
- People were talking about resets.. shren
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. David B. Held
- People were talking about resets.. shren
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. Michael Tresca
- People were talking about resets.. Fred Clift
- People were talking about resets.. Lars Duening
- People were talking about resets.. Michael Tresca
- People were talking about resets.. Rayzam
- People were talking about resets.. Matt Mihaly
- People were talking about resets.. Tand'a-ur
- People were talking about resets.. John Buehler
- People were talking about resets.. Leland Hulbert II
- People were talking about resets.. lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- People were talking about resets.. Jason Murdick
- People were talking about resets.. Jeff Lindsey
- People were talking about resets.. Ben Chambers
- People were talking about resets.. Sasha Hart
- People were talking about resets.. David B. Held
- People were talking about resets.. Sasha Hart
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. David B. Held
- People were talking about resets.. Acius
- People were talking about resets.. Marian Griffith
- Question about copyovers. Anderson, David
- Question about copyovers. Tand'a-ur
- Question about copyovers. Anderson, David
- Question about copyovers. Kwon Ekstrom
- Question about copyovers. Adam
- Question about copyovers. Oliver Jowett
- Question about copyovers. Kwon Ekstrom
- Question about copyovers. Lars Duening
- Question about copyovers. Jon Lambert
- Question about copyovers. fred@clift.org
- Question about copyovers. Zach Collins {Siege}
- Question about copyovers. Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- non-violent activities (was People were talking about resets..) Ammon Lauritzen
- References on personality and emotion models Robert Zubek
- Multimodal interface conference. Rayzam
- Hyperbolies R Us shren
- Hyperbolies R Us Matt Mihaly
- TECH: Systems Administration Issues Thomas Leavitt
- Questions about ... XML as data format Adam
- Questions about ... XML as data format Anderson, David
- Questions about ... XML as data format Kwon Ekstrom
- R&D Matt Mihaly
- Conversation logs? Robert Zubek
- Conversation logs? Rudy Fink
- Conversation logs? Vincent Archer
- Conversation logs? Shane Gough
- DGN: Elastic Advancement in MUDs? Jeff Lindsey
- DGN: Elastic Advancement in MUDs? David B. Held
- Building histories off civilizations automatically adam Martin
- ADMIN: Virii and mail forgeries J C Lawrence
- Hi from the Dragon Empire's CLM Peter Tyson
- Linux gaming ( was Apple WWDC? ) Kevin Mack
- [TECH] Preferred LPC replacement? Jeff Bachtel
- [TECH] Preferred LPC replacement? Damion Schubert
- Who `owns' conversation logs? Joshua Judson Rosen
- The Online Gaming Life for Me! Michael Tresca
- Boredom Ben Chambers
- Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility [was Boredom] Ron Gabbard
- Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility [was Boredom] Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- "MMOG" Bible Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- "MMOG" Bible David Kennerly
- TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Philip Mak
- TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Bruce Mitchener
- TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Bruce Mitchener
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Clay
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] apollyon
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishi ng Marginal Utility] Koster, Raph
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Michael Tresca
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Paul Schwanz
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Martin C. Martin
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Dave Rickey
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Sanvean
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Matt Mihaly
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Michael Tresca
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Kwon Ekstrom
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Marian Griffith
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Yannick Jean
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Marian Griffith
On Thu 06 Jun, Yannick Jean wrote:
> From: Coyote
>> Of course, there's always the chance that you DON'T want to be
>> around other people, or want to show off that shield made from
>> the scales of the dragon. If not, then single player games are
>> ideal.
>> The people that play Online games are generally people that want
>> the social interaction. Want the chance to show off when they
>> accomplish things. They put up with griefers, campers, and
>> technical problems because of this, that they can interact with
>> some people that aren't bad.
> From: "Marian Griffith"
>> Socialising is the opposite from being bored. Well, not the
>> opposite actually as these are entirely different things, but the
>> fact remains that socialising implies an entertaining ac- tivity.
> Ok, I'll jump in the fray here.
> Quite many of you recently stated (as seen above) that player who
> don't really like contact with other players are a rarity in
> Multiplayer Environnement and that single player game are the
> place they belongs.
I am sorry, but I can not read that in the two quotes you gave, not
did I get the impression that anybody actually meant that from any
of the posts to this subject.
> Wrong. I am sorry to say, but it's simply wrong. I know many
> players in current MMORPG who socialize like any others from times
> to times but who mainly shy away from any social obligations like
> "Forced grouping", Guilds and they are even reluctant to interact
> with PC merchant/crafters.
I, at least, never meant to even suggest that this is true. What I
meant instead was that socialising did not occur because players are
bored, but rather that it is an entertaining activity in its own
right.
Others said that social interaction is what sets a multiplayer ga-
me apart from other games, and what is its strong point, because in
all honesty the basic principles of muds makes it different to
provide the sort of experience that a single player game can. If
you want a thrilling story or well balanced character development
then muds have great difficulty to provide that. There are too ma-
ny shortcuts and ways to get around the system to really control the
experience, and most of them are caused by the very fact that there
are other players to help you.
This does not mean that you can not play solo on a mud, but merely
that you can not have a "longest journey" or "Final Fantasy IX" like
experience on a mud.
Seeing that, it does make sense to discuss the means by which you
can encourage and strengthen the social experience of players of a
mud, and it does make sense to say that socialising is *important*
on a mud.
> Question: how many people on this list are lurker and like to
> watch what's = being discussed without actually interacting
> themselve ? Answer: Again a whole lot of them... (clearly the
> majority in fact)
You can not, really, compare a discussion list like this, with a
mud.
> Many players like me and many other have limited playing time and
> the idea when logging in is to be entertained. Careful there, I do
> not mean cheap entertainement (read mindless hack-and-slash), this
> could be meaningful, thought-provoking, entertainement but it
> should entertain the player without large time investment. Is this
> really a suprise that many players are not entertained by
> socializing ? Online socializing is often as mindless and
> superficial as the previously mentionned hack-and-slash and, by
> the way, many people in RL are not at all that found of
> superficial chatters.
Ah, but socialising is not at all the same as chatting. Socialising
is interacting with other players in a way not directly related to
game-play. If you taunt an acquintance who did something monomentu-
ally stupid, you are socialing. If you congratulate a stranger on
doing something remarkable you are already socialising. It does not
all have to be guilds and plane raids and realm versus realm. Run-
ning a shop implies that I am interacting socially with other play-
ers, even if *they* see it as a requirement for their own play. One
does not exclude the other.
> I sincerly think that immersion is what lure and retain playes in
> an online RPG. Socializer see the chance to meet real peoples
> (and that beat any NPCs by far), Explorer hope to see vast
> persistent living world (not the realm of single player game),
> Achiever want to play a game with an advancement ladder (be it be
> equipments, levels, skills, etc.) designed to last for months or
> more, Killer play for the sheer competition of having to compete
> with other players... The short version, is many player do not
> play online game to socialize at all and they haven't the time to
> dedicate themselve to any serious social in-game relationship.
These things *draw* players to a game, but in the end it is their
social network (not necessarily socialising !) that *keeps* them
there. Because sooner or later, the activities provided by the game
are going to become stale. Sooner or later you have seen everything
there is to see, killed everything there is to kill, attacking any
other player is so easy there is no thrill to it left. By that time
the only reason you continue to play is because your friends do.
> The sanbox principle has been stated and overstated, but designers
> must really be careful before pretending to know what peoples
> enjoy and do not enjoy about games, particulary games as complex
> as current MUD and MMORPG.
Of course, but that does not mean they can not be right about things
occasionally :)
marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...
Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Marian Griffith
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Ron Gabbard
- Game shows Peter Tyson
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Martin C. Martin
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Rudy Fink
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Martin C. Martin
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Joshua Judson Rosen
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Ron Gabbard
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Marc Bowden
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Joshua Judson Rosen
- What keeps people interested in social muds? lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Richard A. Bartle
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Martin C. Martin
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Richard A. Bartle
- New Beginings Drylar Levre
- New Beginings Acius
- New Beginings ceo@grexengine.com
- New Beginings Bruce Mitchener
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
- New Beginings Sean Kelly
- New Beginings Lars Duening
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Lars Duening
- New Beginings Bruce Mitchener
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
- New Beginings Paul Schwanz
- New Beginings Zach Collins {Siege}
- New Beginings Miroslav Silovic
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Draymoor a Vin il'Rogina
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
- New Beginings Bruce Mitchener
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Richard Krush
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Acius
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Edward Glowacki
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Kwon Ekstrom
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Edward Glowacki
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Fred Clift
- [DGN] Creating a MUD David Bennett
- [DGN] Creating a MUD fred@clift.org
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Damion Schubert
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Taylor
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Matt Mihaly
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On the creation of constructive/social behaviours in online games! Marc Demesel
- [DGN] MUD Books James Edward Gray II
- [DGN] MUD Books Scion Altera
- [DGN] MUD Books Jeremy Noetzelman
- [DGN] MUD Books Tand'a-ur
- Positive reinforcement for socializing [was In de fense of "soloability" ] Jeff Lindsey
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Ron Gabbard
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Vincent Archer
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs John Buehler
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Sean Kelly
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Ron Gabbard
- Space partitioning, R-Trees? Dread Quixadhal
- Space partitioning, R-Trees? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Space partitioning, R-Trees? Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Space partitioning, R-Trees? Crosbie Fitch