May 2002
- Random Resets John Robert Arras
- Random Resets Kwon Ekstrom
- Random Resets John Robert Arras
- [MLP] The use of ecology models Rayzam
- Interesting things to do (was: Player Accounts on a Non-Commercial MUD) John Buehler
- Apple WWDC? amanda@alfar.com
- Apple WWDC? Nathan F. Yospe
- Apple WWDC? Amanda Walker
- Apple WWDC? Sasha Hart
- Apple WWDC? amanda@alfar.com
- Apple WWDC? Brian Hook
- Apple WWDC? John A. Bertoglio
- Apple WWDC? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Apple WWDC? Matt Mihaly
- Apple WWDC? shren
- Apple WWDC? Matt Mihaly
- Apple WWDC? John A. Bertoglio
- Apple WWDC? James Edward Gray II
- Apple WWDC? Brian Hook
- Encouraging groups without grouping Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Introduction and My solution to Powergamers, Treadmills, and Content Devaluation. Ken Raisor
- The audience is the medium. For now. John Szeder
- The audience is the medium. For now. John Buehler
- The audience is the medium. For now. Damion Schubert
- The audience is the medium. For now. Ted L. Chen
- The audience is the medium. For now. Shane Gough
- The audience is the medium. For now. Michael Tresca
- The audience is the medium. For now. Ted L. Chen
- The audience is the medium. For now. Marian Griffith
- The audience is the medium. For now. Vincent Archer
- The audience is the medium. For now. Damion Schubert
- The audience is the medium. For now. David B. Held
- The audience is the medium. For now. Ted L. Chen
- The audience is the medium. For now. Marian Griffith
- The audience is the medium. For now. F. Randall Farmer
- The audience is the medium. For now. J C Lawrence
- The audience is the medium. For now. Frank Crowell
- Ownership of characters Jasper McChesney
- Explorers? (Was: Codename Blue & Facets - Nick Yee's new studies) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Befriending Critters (was: Random Resets) Arthaey
- Questions about server design Ben Chambers
- Questions about server design Michael Bayne
- Questions about server design Sean Middleditch
- Questions about server design Mike Shaver
- Questions about server design Kwon Ekstrom
- Questions about server design szii@sziisoft.com
- Questions about server design F. Randall Farmer
- Questions about server design James Edward Gray II
- Questions about server design Shane Gough
- Extensibility Ben Chambers
- Extensibility Ammon Lauritzen
- Extensibility Kwon Ekstrom
- Extensibility Ben Chambers
- Extensibility "Christopher {siege} " OBrien
- Extensibility Sean Middleditch
- Extensibility Sean Kelly
- Extensibility John Buehler
- Extensibility shren
- Extensibility John Buehler
- Extensibility szii@sziisoft.com
- Extensibility John Buehler
- Extensibility szii@sziisoft.com
- Extensibility Mike Shaver
- Question: Any published research on Sims type game personae? susan wu
- [MLP] Why care about levels? (was: The use of ecolo Richard Woolcock
- [MLP] Why care about levels? (was: The use of ecolo gy models) Jon Lambert
- Component Design (was: Extensibility) Scion Altera
- [BIZ] Selling Stock (formerly Blacksnow revisted ) Robert A. Rice, Jr.
- Games are Hot. Period Michael Tresca
- Games are Hot. Period Gladimir
- Games are Hot. Period Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Games are Hot. Period Freeman, Jeff
- Games are Hot. Period Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Games are Hot. Period Koster, Raph
- Games are Hot. Period Vincent Archer
- Games are Hot. Period Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Games are Hot. Period Matt Mihaly
- fun Matt Mihaly
- [TECH] Shortest Path William Murdick
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Eli Stevens
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Jon Leonard
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Robert Zubek
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction ceo@grexengine.com
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Koster, Raph
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Rudy Neeser
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Matt Mihaly
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Mike Shaver
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction amanda@alfar.com
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Koster, Raph
- [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Combat with Style (was Player Accounts on a Non-Commercial MUD) lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- Playskins Koster, Raph
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. Sasha Hart
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. John Buehler
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?=
- People were talking about resets.. shren
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. David B. Held
- People were talking about resets.. shren
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. Michael Tresca
- People were talking about resets.. Fred Clift
- People were talking about resets.. Lars Duening
- People were talking about resets.. Michael Tresca
- People were talking about resets.. Rayzam
- People were talking about resets.. Matt Mihaly
- People were talking about resets.. Tand'a-ur
- People were talking about resets.. John Buehler
- People were talking about resets.. Leland Hulbert II
- People were talking about resets.. lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- People were talking about resets.. Jason Murdick
- People were talking about resets.. Jeff Lindsey
- People were talking about resets.. Ben Chambers
- People were talking about resets.. Sasha Hart
- People were talking about resets.. David B. Held
- People were talking about resets.. Sasha Hart
- People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
- People were talking about resets.. David B. Held
- People were talking about resets.. Acius
- People were talking about resets.. Marian Griffith
- Question about copyovers. Anderson, David
- Question about copyovers. Tand'a-ur
- Question about copyovers. Anderson, David
- Question about copyovers. Kwon Ekstrom
- Question about copyovers. Adam
- Question about copyovers. Oliver Jowett
- Question about copyovers. Kwon Ekstrom
- Question about copyovers. Lars Duening
- Question about copyovers. Jon Lambert
- Question about copyovers. fred@clift.org
- Question about copyovers. Zach Collins {Siege}
- Question about copyovers. Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- non-violent activities (was People were talking about resets..) Ammon Lauritzen
- References on personality and emotion models Robert Zubek
- Multimodal interface conference. Rayzam
- Hyperbolies R Us shren
- Hyperbolies R Us Matt Mihaly
- TECH: Systems Administration Issues Thomas Leavitt
- Questions about ... XML as data format Adam
- Questions about ... XML as data format Anderson, David
- Questions about ... XML as data format Kwon Ekstrom
- R&D Matt Mihaly
- Conversation logs? Robert Zubek
- Conversation logs? Rudy Fink
- Conversation logs? Vincent Archer
- Conversation logs? Shane Gough
- DGN: Elastic Advancement in MUDs? Jeff Lindsey
- DGN: Elastic Advancement in MUDs? David B. Held
- Building histories off civilizations automatically adam Martin
- ADMIN: Virii and mail forgeries J C Lawrence
- Hi from the Dragon Empire's CLM Peter Tyson
- Linux gaming ( was Apple WWDC? ) Kevin Mack
- [TECH] Preferred LPC replacement? Jeff Bachtel
- [TECH] Preferred LPC replacement? Damion Schubert
- Who `owns' conversation logs? Joshua Judson Rosen
- The Online Gaming Life for Me! Michael Tresca
- Boredom Ben Chambers
- Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility [was Boredom] Ron Gabbard
From: "Ben Chambers"
> What do you do to prevent players getting bored? It is inevitable
> that at some point they will become so good that the areas and
> monsters you have made just don't challenge them... Generated
> quests just won't be difficult enough, and you won't be able to
> churn out new areas to explore and new scripted/programmed quests
> to do. How do you keep a player like that entertained?
I've actually thought about this exact topic a lot as a means for
analyzing different in-game systems and procedures.
As you stated, every player of every game will eventually become
bored and leave. It's inevitable given the Law of Diminishing
Marginal Utility that states that every unit consumed of a good will
give a lower level of satisfaction (utility) than the previously
consumed unit. While the downward sloping line will have a
different shape for each person, it's a fact that every player's
line slopes downward and that they have a horizontal line on this
graph that represents the level of utility of other options for the
use of their leisure time. The player will leave the game when the
utility received from playing a particular MUD falls below that
line.
As a game developer, there are only two things that you can offer
the player -- mental stimulation and emotional satisfaction through
the acquisition of virtual wealth, skill wealth, and human capital
in a challenging and immersive environment.
Imagine a MUD that has only one facet -- level up the character. In
this MUD, the satisfaction from earning level 2 is higher that
earning level 3 which is higher than that for earning level 4, and
so on. The result is that the amount of time a player is willing to
invest in earning each subsequent level becomes less and less
corresponding to the utility gained from acquiring that next level.
This is counter to the standard XP curve that requires a larger and
larger investment of time for each subsequent 'level'.
So, the developer adds new skills to the game where the player is
rewarded for achieving certain 'levels'. In this example, let's say
that at level 5 the player receives the spell Fireball and they can
put away that bloodied stick they have been using to whack the local
flora and fauna. Thus, you get a spike in mental stimulation and
emotional satisfaction (thus, overall utility) because the player
now has a new skill to learn and can more effectively destroy the
local flora and fauna. Now, this is where using skills to add
utility gets tricky.
Assume that this MUD's player progression model is such that the
player gets new skills every five levels. This model will result in
a spike in the player's overall utility curve every 5 levels when
they get their new skill. However, if the new skill is just an
upgraded version of the skill gained at level 5, the marginal
utility will be less than if it were a completely new skill. For
example... If the player learned Fireball1 at level 5 that is able
to do 30% damage to mobiles his/her level, learning Fireball2 that
is able to do 30% damage to mobiles his/her level will give less
satisfaction than learning 'Invisibility' or some other spell that
offers new utility. This is the trap that many MUDs fall into where
player skills increase by X% and the corresponding mob difficulty
also increases by X% (or even X+1%). Thus, the player stays in the
status quo (or is penalized) and the 'spike' in utility from gained
new skills becomes negligible as it is also affected by the Law of
Diminishing Marginal Utility.
Thus, the game developer adds loot to their MUD. Loot is often
implemented in the same manner that Skills are implemented in MUDs
and is a primary reason why a 'robust' economy is so important. A
level 1 mobile will drop X coin, a level 2 mob will drop 2X, etc.
The developer also adds 'rare drops' that a player can get when
receiving a particular level. However, like skills, these items
typically just maintain the status quo in terms of overall player
effectiveness. In addition, the real use for coin (number of
purchasable items with a greater utility than previously purchased
items) decreases over time due to shallow economies. Eventually,
the incremental value of that next gold piece becomes minimal and
the next 'phat loot' is needed just to maintain a player's
effectiveness. The Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility sets in
again and drives down the satisfaction gained from loot.
The same thing happens with the addition of mobiles, mob_Y and
mob_Z. There is a spike in overall utility as the player gains
mental stimulation from fighting the new beasts (even moreso if the
new mobiles have a different AI). However, the marginal utility
gained from killing mobiles Y & Z starts downward as well after the
first killing.
The next facet is immersiveness. While not a tangible/quantifiable
aspect of the game, immersiveness has a drastic impact on the
utility curve for most players. The greater the immersiveness, the
longer the player goes before hitting that "it's just a game" phase
of optimization, i.e., the overall utility curve doesn't start
sloping downward as soon and not as steeply as a game with a low
level of immersiveness. Immersiveness can't completely counter the
Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility forever but it can definitely
lengthen the amount of time a player will play a game.
The last part is the 'Human Capital' aspect of
MUD's... socialization and friendships. In my opinion, this is the
most critical area for encouraging player longevity in a MUD as it's
the only aspect that is not impacted by the Law of Diminishing
Marginal Utility. The value of the relationship between Bubba the
Warrior and Frank the Thief is greater after 3 months playing
together than it was after 2 days... and continues to increase over
time. While the impact of Human Capital will vary from player to
player, the 'cost' to the player of leaving those friends by
quitting the game lowers the value of their best alternative
activity, (that horizontal line representing the point at which they
quit).
This is why I am puzzled why so many commercial MUDs are striving
for 'soloability' of characters and minimal downtime. While I don't
know if I totally agree with Raph's "50% downtime" model, time for
socialization certainly needs to be greater than the "almost zero"
downtime found in some of the more recently released commercial
MUDs. And, it needs to be 'quality' downtime for socialization and
not downtime where the player goes AFK for 15 minutes (as in the
case of the 'boat' in EQ).
In short, I don't think the 'boredom' factor can be removed from
MUDs... it's inherent with every activity no matter how fun.
However, player development, skill progression, and the economy can
be developed in such a way that the effect of the Law of Diminishing
Marginal Utility is lessened by always keeping a 'carrot' in front
of the player.
Cheers,
Ron - Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility [was Boredom] Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- "MMOG" Bible Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- "MMOG" Bible David Kennerly
- TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Philip Mak
- TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Bruce Mitchener
- TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Bruce Mitchener
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Clay
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] apollyon
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishi ng Marginal Utility] Koster, Raph
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Michael Tresca
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Paul Schwanz
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Martin C. Martin
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Dave Rickey
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Sanvean
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Matt Mihaly
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Michael Tresca
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Kwon Ekstrom
- In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Ron Gabbard
- Game shows Peter Tyson
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Martin C. Martin
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Rudy Fink
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Martin C. Martin
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Joshua Judson Rosen
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Ron Gabbard
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Marc Bowden
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Joshua Judson Rosen
- What keeps people interested in social muds? lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Richard A. Bartle
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Martin C. Martin
- What keeps people interested in social muds? Richard A. Bartle
- New Beginings Drylar Levre
- New Beginings Acius
- New Beginings ceo@grexengine.com
- New Beginings Bruce Mitchener
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
- New Beginings Sean Kelly
- New Beginings Lars Duening
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Lars Duening
- New Beginings Bruce Mitchener
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
- New Beginings Paul Schwanz
- New Beginings Zach Collins {Siege}
- New Beginings Miroslav Silovic
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Draymoor a Vin il'Rogina
- New Beginings David B. Held
- New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
- New Beginings Bruce Mitchener
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Richard Krush
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Acius
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Edward Glowacki
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Kwon Ekstrom
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Edward Glowacki
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Fred Clift
- [DGN] Creating a MUD David Bennett
- [DGN] Creating a MUD fred@clift.org
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Damion Schubert
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Taylor
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Matt Mihaly
- [DGN] Creating a MUD Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On the creation of constructive/social behaviours in online games! Marc Demesel
- [DGN] MUD Books James Edward Gray II
- [DGN] MUD Books Scion Altera
- [DGN] MUD Books Jeremy Noetzelman
- [DGN] MUD Books Tand'a-ur
- Positive reinforcement for socializing [was In de fense of "soloability" ] Jeff Lindsey
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Ron Gabbard
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Vincent Archer
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs John Buehler
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Sean Kelly
- Character skill distribution and trade-offs Ron Gabbard
- Space partitioning, R-Trees? Dread Quixadhal
- Space partitioning, R-Trees? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Space partitioning, R-Trees? Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Space partitioning, R-Trees? Crosbie Fitch