May 2002

• Random Resets John Robert Arras
• • Random Resets Kwon Ekstrom
  • • Random Resets John Robert Arras
• [MLP] The use of ecology models Rayzam
• Interesting things to do (was: Player Accounts on a Non-Commercial MUD) John Buehler
• • Interesting things to do (was: Player Accounts on a Non-Commercial MUD) Damion Schubert
• Apple WWDC? amanda@alfar.com
• • Apple WWDC? Nathan F. Yospe
  • • Apple WWDC? Amanda Walker
    • • Apple WWDC? Sasha Hart
      • • Apple WWDC? amanda@alfar.com
        • • Apple WWDC? Brian Hook
          • Apple WWDC? John A. Bertoglio
          • • Apple WWDC? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
            • Apple WWDC? Matt Mihaly
            • • Apple WWDC? shren
              • • Apple WWDC? Matt Mihaly
              • Apple WWDC? John A. Bertoglio
            • Apple WWDC? James Edward Gray II
        • Apple WWDC? Brian Hook
• Encouraging groups without grouping Brian 'Psychochild' Green
• Introduction and My solution to Powergamers, Treadmills, and Content Devaluation. Ken Raisor
• • Introduction and My solution to Powergamers, Treadmills, and Content Devaluation. shren
  • Introduction and My solution to Powergamers, Treadmills, and Content Devaluation. Gladimir
  • Introduction and My solution to Powergamers, Treadmills, and Content Devaluation. szii@sziisoft.com
• The audience is the medium. For now. John Szeder
• • The audience is the medium. For now. John Buehler
  • • The audience is the medium. For now. Damion Schubert
    • • The audience is the medium. For now. Ted L. Chen
      • • The audience is the medium. For now. Shane Gough
        • The audience is the medium. For now. Michael Tresca
        • • The audience is the medium. For now. Ted L. Chen
          • • The audience is the medium. For now. Marian Griffith
            • The audience is the medium. For now. Vincent Archer
  • The audience is the medium. For now. Damion Schubert
  • The audience is the medium. For now. David B. Held
  • The audience is the medium. For now. Ted L. Chen
    Hi,
    
    I'm new on the list so bear with me if formatting and structuring seems a
    bit off while I get used to the existing standard.
    
    
    From: John Szeder
    
    > With the recent discussion revolving around explorers, and Nick
    > Yee's studies, etc, it raised an interesting question in my mind.
    
    > How many people have experimented with having a venue for
    > "Observers" in their game?
    
    > Admittedly you have GM tools etc that let you be invisible, and in
    > Ultima Online you can ghost around with impunity as well.
    
    > Has anyone really cottoned to the idea of enabling this more in
    > their games?
    
    > A lot of people who I talk to who are outside of the hardcore
    > gamer area struggle with the notion that the audience is the
    > medium.
    
    > Why not introduce the concept of an audience into the game?
    
    Just to deconstruct, a key factor of this idea here is that
    Observers cannot influence the mechanics or interact with the game
    in any direct way. So why would an Observers be drawn to the game?
    Taking a cue from non-interactive media such as movies, I posit that
    the basic draw is the ability to see character actions translate
    directly into consequences. Movies that distinctly lack this
    behavior are said to be 'confusing' and possibly 'artsy' (in a
    derogatory fashion).
    
    However, this seems to be only a necessary condition to draw a
    majority of Observer types to watch it, not a sufficient one for
    critical acclaim or retention. The sufficiency comes when you
    factor in an implicit generation of intent. That is, the Observer
    attempts to map some form of goal or intent on the character's
    action and then measures whether the action->consequence was
    effective in matching those goals. If not, then the Observer chalks
    it up as a bad choice. This opens up many possibilities such as
    internal score-keeping (as done when watchers of a football game
    critique a bad play) or a meta-game where the Observer plays a guess
    and check game with the system that she is observing (the
    suspenseful climax of guessing who is going to be voted off the
    island).
    
    << on a slightly related note, one might argue that The Sims
    employs this intent-action-consequence in a low-level form to
    capture the attention of Observers. Our hand of god mucks things
    around a bit, but ultimately, we're observing our Sims through the
    intent-action-consequence triplet. >>
    
    > There is some talk about a Starcraft channel someplace overseas,
    > as well as the new game channel people talk about over here.
    
    These channels will offer a basic action->consequence stimulus to
    the Observer. However, when the different types of
    "action->consequences" have all been seen, the Observer will lose
    interest unless there is something else to preoccupy her. This is
    where inferring the player's intent is important and something I'm
    unsure as to whether these game-channels can portray through the
    limited expressionism of the games they play.
    
    Granted, intent inference can be based on shared-experiences between
    two people who've played Starcraft. But the general public,
    especially those outside of the hardcore gamer area, will not share
    these similar experiences.
    
    > In a persistent world style game, how many people would pay a
    > reduced rate of 5.95 a month to have the ability to ghost around
    > the world and watch things happen?
    
    > Even more to the point, what if you tied into the ability for
    > audience people to award points periodically to players they see
    > doing cool things?
    
    > Essentially you would get people being able to along on these big
    > plane raids and experience vicariously the thrill of killing some
    > of the really big nasty monsters.
    
    > There are downsides to the idea of course. Some people don't like
    > being watched, and others are busy doing... well... what lots of
    > people like to do when they think no one is watching.
    
    Unless we can convey intent in our games (like good actors can on
    the silver screen), then I don't think people would consistently pay
    $5.95 a month. They may pay it once, treating it as akin to seeing
    a cheap summer blockbuster, but retention would be difficult at
    best. The question to ask is "is there value in seeing it again?"
    
    Which leads to a concern regarding the content that the Observer
    is... well... observing. In TV reality shows, which this form of
    entertainment would be drawing a strong analogy from, a lot of
    editing takes place. After all, a full day or weeks worth of
    material is compressed into a one hour show. Additionally, the
    editing pace and selection also imparts a bit of control over what
    the Observers infer about the characters.
    
    When we map this to a gaming world, we find a startling lack of
    editing. Everyone here is familiar with the long trek in the desert
    idea, and if it isn't fun for some players, how can it be fun to
    watch? Not to mention that big plane raids may be sporadic, both in
    time and in space. Unless a strong mechanism is in place in
    determining where the 'fun parts to watch' (possibly different from
    fun parts to play) are, observer modes put the onus of editing on
    the Observer. And as someone who has had to edit home movies before
    (oh yes, my insane plea to authority here), editing is a very boring
    job.
    
    And we haven't even gone into the topics such as propriety of the
    content (which you lightly touched :) upon), or even content
    continuity and cohesiveness (are we watching a mosaic, or a
    progression of events?)
    
    > I am certain that I am going to catch some flak here from the
    > "this is bad for the community" crowd too, but I am not sure on
    > what basis.
    
    It's not a bad idea to explore. It might get the juices flowing on
    better communication of intent in online games. Emotes currently
    serve this purpose, but don't translate too well for casual
    observers.
    
    Perhaps an argument can be made for something less extreme than a
    full-fledged non-player observer mode. That is, take the case of
    big events that players flock to where big MOBs are on a killing
    spree. A lot of criticism from players is that they're missing out
    of the event once they get killed by the MOB and respawn at their
    last bind-point. A possible solution to this complaint that borrows
    from the Observer idea can be to let players linger their view at
    the location of death to watch how their actions have translated
    into consequences. This partly side-steps the intent inference
    issue as it's the player that judges her own
    intent-action-consequence triplet. It also nicely avoids the
    editing problem.
    
    TLC
  • The audience is the medium. For now. Marian Griffith
  • The audience is the medium. For now. F. Randall Farmer
  • • The audience is the medium. For now. J C Lawrence
  • The audience is the medium. For now. Frank Crowell
• Ownership of characters Jasper McChesney
• Explorers? (Was: Codename Blue & Facets - Nick Yee's new studies) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
• • Explorers? (Was: Codename Blue & Facets - Nick Yee's new studies) Matt Mihaly
• Befriending Critters (was: Random Resets) Arthaey
• • Befriending Critters (was: Random Resets) Rayzam
  • Befriending Critters (was: Random Resets) shren
• Questions about server design Ben Chambers
• • Questions about server design Michael Bayne
  • Questions about server design Sean Middleditch
  • Questions about server design Mike Shaver
  • Questions about server design Kwon Ekstrom
  • Questions about server design szii@sziisoft.com
  • Questions about server design F. Randall Farmer
  • • Questions about server design James Edward Gray II
  • Questions about server design Shane Gough
• Extensibility Ben Chambers
• • Extensibility Ammon Lauritzen
  • Extensibility Kwon Ekstrom
  • Extensibility Ben Chambers
  • • Extensibility "Christopher {siege} " OBrien
  • Extensibility Sean Middleditch
  • Extensibility Sean Kelly
  • • Extensibility John Buehler
    • • Extensibility shren
      • • Extensibility John Buehler
    • Extensibility szii@sziisoft.com
    • • Extensibility John Buehler
      • • Extensibility szii@sziisoft.com
  • Extensibility Mike Shaver
• Question: Any published research on Sims type game personae? susan wu
• • Question: Any published research on Sims type game personae? Robert Zubek
• [MLP] Why care about levels? (was: The use of ecolo Richard Woolcock
• [MLP] Why care about levels? (was: The use of ecolo gy models) Jon Lambert
• Component Design (was: Extensibility) Scion Altera
• [BIZ] Selling Stock (formerly Blacksnow revisted ) Robert A. Rice, Jr.
• Games are Hot. Period Michael Tresca
• • Games are Hot. Period Gladimir
  • • Games are Hot. Period Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
    • • Games are Hot. Period Freeman, Jeff
      • • Games are Hot. Period Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
      • Games are Hot. Period Koster, Raph
      • • Games are Hot. Period Vincent Archer
        • Games are Hot. Period Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
  • Games are Hot. Period Matt Mihaly
• fun Matt Mihaly
• [TECH] Shortest Path William Murdick
• [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
• • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
  • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
    • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
  • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
  • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Eli Stevens
    • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Jon Leonard
      • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
      • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Robert Zubek
      • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction ceo@grexengine.com
  • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
    • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Koster, Raph
      • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
        • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
  • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Rudy Neeser
  • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
  • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Matt Mihaly
  • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
    • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
      • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Ted L. Chen
        • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
        • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction Mike Shaver
        • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction John Buehler
          • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Reconstruction amanda@alfar.com
        • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Koster, Raph
        • • [TECH] Voice in MO* - Phoneme Decomposition and Rec onstruction Steve {Bloo} Daniels
• Combat with Style (was Player Accounts on a Non-Commercial MUD) lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
• Playskins Koster, Raph
• People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
• • People were talking about resets.. Sasha Hart
  • • People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
  • People were talking about resets.. John Buehler
  • People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
  • People were talking about resets.. Arnau Rossell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?= Castell=?US-ASCII?Q?=F3?=
  • • People were talking about resets.. shren
    • People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
    • • People were talking about resets.. David B. Held
  • People were talking about resets.. shren
  • • People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
    • • People were talking about resets.. Michael Tresca
      • • People were talking about resets.. Fred Clift
        • • People were talking about resets.. Lars Duening
          • People were talking about resets.. Michael Tresca
          • • People were talking about resets.. Rayzam
            • • People were talking about resets.. Matt Mihaly
  • People were talking about resets.. Tand'a-ur
  • • People were talking about resets.. John Buehler
    • People were talking about resets.. Leland Hulbert II
  • People were talking about resets.. lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
  • People were talking about resets.. Jason Murdick
  • • People were talking about resets.. Jeff Lindsey
    • People were talking about resets.. Ben Chambers
  • People were talking about resets.. Sasha Hart
  • • People were talking about resets.. David B. Held
    • • People were talking about resets.. Sasha Hart
      • • People were talking about resets.. Anderson, David
        • People were talking about resets.. David B. Held
        • • People were talking about resets.. Acius
          • • People were talking about resets.. Marian Griffith
• Question about copyovers. Anderson, David
• • Question about copyovers. Tand'a-ur
  • • Question about copyovers. Anderson, David
    • • Question about copyovers. Kwon Ekstrom
      • • Question about copyovers. Adam
        • Question about copyovers. Oliver Jowett
        • • Question about copyovers. Kwon Ekstrom
          • • Question about copyovers. Adam
      • Question about copyovers. Lars Duening
  • Question about copyovers. Jon Lambert
  • Question about copyovers. fred@clift.org
  • • Question about copyovers. Zach Collins {Siege}
  • Question about copyovers. Smith, David {Lynchburg}
• non-violent activities (was People were talking about resets..) Ammon Lauritzen
• References on personality and emotion models Robert Zubek
• Multimodal interface conference. Rayzam
• Hyperbolies R Us shren
• • Hyperbolies R Us Matt Mihaly
• TECH: Systems Administration Issues Thomas Leavitt
• Questions about ... XML as data format Adam
• • Questions about ... XML as data format Anderson, David
  • Questions about ... XML as data format Kwon Ekstrom
  • • Questions about ... XML as data format Adam
• R&D Matt Mihaly
• • R&D Dave Rickey
  • • R&D apollyon
    • • R&D shren
    • R&D Zach Collins {Siege}
    • • R&D Sean Kelly
      • • R&D Matt Mihaly
        • • R&D Sean Kelly
        • R&D Derek Licciardi
        • R&D Brian Bilek
        • • R&D Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
          • • R&D Brian Bilek
            • • R&D Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
              • • R&D Brian Bilek
          • R&D Damion Schubert
          • R&D Matt Mihaly
          • • R&D Brian Bilek
            • • R&D amanda@alfar.com
              • • R&D Brian Bilek
                • • R&D Koster, Raph
                  • • R&D Ron Gabbard
                    • R&D Amanda Walker
                    • R&D Frank Crowell
              • R&D Dave Rickey
              • • R&D Brian Bilek
              • R&D Matt Mihaly
              • • R&D Dave Rickey
            • R&D Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
    • R&D Jessica Mulligan
    • R&D Damion Schubert
• Conversation logs? Robert Zubek
• • Conversation logs? Rudy Fink
  • • Conversation logs? Vincent Archer
  • Conversation logs? Shane Gough
• DGN: Elastic Advancement in MUDs? Jeff Lindsey
• • DGN: Elastic Advancement in MUDs? David B. Held
• Building histories off civilizations automatically adam Martin
• ADMIN: Virii and mail forgeries J C Lawrence
• Hi from the Dragon Empire's CLM Peter Tyson
• Linux gaming ( was Apple WWDC? ) Kevin Mack
• [TECH] Preferred LPC replacement? Jeff Bachtel
• • [TECH] Preferred LPC replacement? Damion Schubert
• Who `owns' conversation logs? Joshua Judson Rosen
• The Online Gaming Life for Me! Michael Tresca
• Boredom Ben Chambers
• • Boredom Michael Tresca
  • Boredom Matt Chatterley
• Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility [was Boredom] Ron Gabbard
• • Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility [was Boredom] Caliban Tiresias Darklock
• "MMOG" Bible Brian 'Psychochild' Green
• • "MMOG" Bible David Kennerly
• TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Philip Mak
• • TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Smith, David {Lynchburg}
  • TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Bruce Mitchener
  • • TECH: Single process v.s. multi process? Bruce Mitchener
• In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Clay
• • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] apollyon
  • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Caliban Tiresias Darklock
  • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishi ng Marginal Utility] Koster, Raph
  • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Jeff Cole
    • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Damion Schubert
    • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] John Buehler
    • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] amanda@alfar.com
      • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] John Buehler
  • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Michael Tresca
  • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Paul Schwanz
    • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Martin C. Martin
    • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Dave Rickey
      • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Vincent Archer
      • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Sanvean
      • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Matt Mihaly
      • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] F. Randall Farmer
        • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Matt Mihaly
      • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Michael Tresca
  • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Kwon Ekstrom
  • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Marian Griffith
    • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Yannick Jean
      • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Marian Griffith
  • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Ron Gabbard
  • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Sean Kelly
    • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Ron Gabbard
      • • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Sean Kelly
        • In defense of "soloability" [was Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility] Matt Mihaly
• Game shows Peter Tyson
• What keeps people interested in social muds? Martin C. Martin
• • What keeps people interested in social muds? Rudy Fink
  • • What keeps people interested in social muds? Martin C. Martin
    • • What keeps people interested in social muds? Joshua Judson Rosen
  • What keeps people interested in social muds? Ron Gabbard
  • What keeps people interested in social muds? Marc Bowden
  • What keeps people interested in social muds? Joshua Judson Rosen
  • • What keeps people interested in social muds? Matt Owen
  • What keeps people interested in social muds? lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
  • What keeps people interested in social muds? Richard A. Bartle
  • • What keeps people interested in social muds? Martin C. Martin
  • What keeps people interested in social muds? Richard A. Bartle
• New Beginings Drylar Levre
• • New Beginings Acius
  • New Beginings ceo@grexengine.com
  • • New Beginings Bruce Mitchener
    • New Beginings David B. Held
    • • New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
      • • New Beginings David B. Held
        • • New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
          • New Beginings Sean Kelly
      • New Beginings Lars Duening
      • • New Beginings David B. Held
        • • New Beginings Lars Duening
      • New Beginings Bruce Mitchener
      • • New Beginings David B. Held
        • • New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
          • New Beginings Paul Schwanz
          • • New Beginings Zach Collins {Siege}
          • New Beginings Miroslav Silovic
        • New Beginings David B. Held
  • New Beginings Draymoor a Vin il'Rogina
  • New Beginings David B. Held
  • • New Beginings Kwon Ekstrom
    • New Beginings Bruce Mitchener
• [DGN] Creating a MUD Richard Krush
• • [DGN] Creating a MUD Acius
  • [DGN] Creating a MUD Caliban Tiresias Darklock
  • • [DGN] Creating a MUD Edward Glowacki
    • • [DGN] Creating a MUD Kwon Ekstrom
  • [DGN] Creating a MUD Edward Glowacki
  • • [DGN] Creating a MUD Fred Clift
    • • [DGN] Creating a MUD David Bennett
      • • [DGN] Creating a MUD fred@clift.org
  • [DGN] Creating a MUD Damion Schubert
  • • [DGN] Creating a MUD Taylor
  • [DGN] Creating a MUD Matt Mihaly
  • • [DGN] Creating a MUD Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
• On the creation of constructive/social behaviours in online games! Marc Demesel
• [DGN] MUD Books James Edward Gray II
• • [DGN] MUD Books Scion Altera
  • [DGN] MUD Books Jeremy Noetzelman
  • [DGN] MUD Books Tand'a-ur
• Positive reinforcement for socializing [was In de fense of "soloability" ] Jeff Lindsey
• Character skill distribution and trade-offs Ron Gabbard
• • Character skill distribution and trade-offs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • Character skill distribution and trade-offs Vincent Archer
    • • Character skill distribution and trade-offs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
    • Character skill distribution and trade-offs John Buehler
    • Character skill distribution and trade-offs Sean Kelly
    • • Character skill distribution and trade-offs Ron Gabbard
      • • Character skill distribution and trade-offs Travis Casey
        • Character skill distribution and trade-offs Rayzam
• Space partitioning, R-Trees? Dread Quixadhal
• • Space partitioning, R-Trees? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • Space partitioning, R-Trees? Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • Space partitioning, R-Trees? Crosbie Fitch