March 2002
- ADMIN: Sorry for the delays J C Lawrence
- progress quest matt hellige
- progress quest Frank Crowell
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Dan MacDonald
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Vincent Archer
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Fred Clift
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Dan MacDonald
- Thank you from MudWorld ucmm@inetsolve.com
- [rpg-create] Female Gamers (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Time Theory David C.Z. Wacks
- Time Theory Marc Bowden
- Time Theory Travis Nixon
- Time Theory Marc Bowden
- Time Theory Koster, Raph
- Time Theory Freeman, Jeff
- Time Theory Eli Stevens
- Time Theory Matt Mihaly
- Time Theory Peter Tyson
- Time Theory Mats Lidstrom
- Time Theory Anderson, David
- Time Theory Mats Lidstrom
- Time Theory Vincent Archer
- Time Theory David Kennerly
- Time Theory Torgny Bjers
- [GameDesign] "How to tell if a game design is good or bad" (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [decentralization] time may have structure (fwd) J C Lawrence
- EQ RPG Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Rapture Matt Mihaly
- Re:Time Theory Talies the Wanderer
- Re:Time Theory Travis Nixon
- Re:Time Theory Leland Hulbert II
- MMORPG Comparison Elia Mörling
- More Prevalent and Effective Emotes Paul Schwanz
- More Prevalent and Effective Emotes John Buehler
- Meridian 59 re-launched! Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- MUD-Dev GDC dinner and Pseudo-META BBQ J C Lawrence
- [Meta] EQ RPG J C Lawrence
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Jessica Mulligan
- Blacksnow revisted Jeff Cole
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted amanda@alfar.com
- Blacksnow revisted Zach Collins {Siege}
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted amanda@alfar.com
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Marian Griffith
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted amanda@alfar.com
- Blacksnow revisted Eli Stevens
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Mark Eaton
- Blacksnow revisted Kylotan
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Travis Casey
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Marc Bowden
- Blacksnow revisted Paul Schwanz
- Blacksnow revisted Kylotan
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted shaver@mozilla.org
- Blacksnow revisted Patrick Black
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Amanda Walker
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Amanda Walker
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted Ron Gabbard
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Paul Schwanz
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Paul Schwanz
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted Paul Schwanz
- Blacksnow revisted Jessica Mulligan
- Blacksnow revisted Christopher Kohnert
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Bill Williamson
- Blacksnow revisted Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted fred@clift.org
- Blacksnow revisted Stefan Ripperger
- Blacksnow revisted Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
----- Original Message -----
From: <Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com>
> From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock [mailto:caliban@darklock.com]
>> From: <Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com>
>>> In the Anarchy Online case, the items they were selling were
>>> apparently all duped/farmed using exploits which is how the BSI
>>> characters were identified.
>> The AO statement about exploitation isn't really relevant to the
>> Mythic case. The Mythic case is about Dark Age of Camelot, and no
>> similar allegation was raised by Mythic.
> So its forunate I'm discussing the AO side of things here right?
> ;)
Well, I really didn't want to discuss the AO side of things, because
it's a whole different issue. Whether BSI was selling goods or
selling services is kind of irrelevant to whether they were
cheating.
>>> Does it really matter if BSI is allowed to sell things online -
>>> the issue in this case is if games are allowed to ban players
>>> when it can be demonstrated such action will cause financial
>>> loss.
>> That's an instructive way of putting it. I don't think anyone
>> would dispute that someone who cheats at some game or other
>> should be banned and the game's administration is perfectly
>> justified in doing it.
> Thats exactly what black snow are arguing in the AO case. They are
> arguing that its causing them enormous financial loss. Whether or
> not they take it to court we don't yet know as frankly solicitor's
> letters are worthless by themselves.
This is my whole problem with BSI.
They're morons.
They have something of a point in the Mythic case, but they're
*really* stupid.
I'm concerned that this is going to cause a problem in acceptance of
the decision. If the judge says they're right, will the community
bitch about how this is a travesty because BSI is clearly wrong
about everything they say? If the judge says they're wrong, will the
community applaud even if the decision is clearly flawed?
I worry.
>> Ultimately, however, only one or two issues will be resolved. The
>> rest of them will stay up in the air for people like us to
>> discuss on lists like this. ;)
> One has to wonder if they can actually run their business
> profitably without cheating.
That's an issue I suspect is much more useful than whether you can
sell what you acquire on the game. I don't think anyone *can* run a
profitable business with in-game items without either cheating or
violating very basic rules of in-game conduct, if not both. And
since both of these practices are outlawed in and of themselves, why
do we need to outlaw selling items at all?
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Kyle Leithoff
- Blacksnow revisted Christopher Allen
- Blacksnow revisted Stefan Ripperger
- Blacksnow revisted Fred Clift
- Blacksnow revisted Mike Shaver
- [Meta] EQ RPG Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- [Meta] EQ RPG Dave Rickey
- [Meta] EQ RPG Vincent Archer
- Blacksnow revisited John Robert Arras
- Blacksnow revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisited Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Blacksnow revisited Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Blacksnow revisited Mike Mormando
- Blacksnow revisited Matt Mihaly
- Re Moved: [Meta] EQ RPG szii@sziisoft.com
- Re Moved: [Meta] EQ RPG Rogue_Buddha
- Re Moved: [Meta] EQ RPG Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisited Robert A. Rice Jr.
- [PR] Skotos Releases Hegemony Strategic Game Christopher Allen
- Skotos Seven StoryBuilder Obstacles & Openings Christopher Allen
- NEWS: mooix beta 1 released (successor to perlmoo) Joey Hess
- NEWS: mooix beta 1 released (successor to perlmoo) Fred Clift
- NEWS: mooix beta 1 released (successor to perlmoo) F. Randall Farmer
- Prediction (Was: Quake II has gone GPL) T o F
- Emminent Wisdom Mike Povoski
- Emminent Wisdom shannona@skotos.net
- Schubert's law of player expections John Szeder
- Re Moved: [Meta] EQ RPG Jason Booth
- Money matters Jean, Yannick (îlot)
- Money matters eric rhea
- Alternatives to Permadeath Jon Leonard
- Alternatives to Permadeath Richard A. Bartle
- Alternatives to Permadeath Blane Bramble
- Alternatives to Permadeath szii@sziisoft.com
- Alternatives to Permadeath Casbaria
- Alternatives to Permadeath Mordengaard
- Alternatives to Permadeath Brian Bilek
- Alternatives to Permadeath Jason Booth
- Alternatives to Permadeath Richard A. Bartle
- Alternatives to Permadeath Sasha Hart
- Alternatives to Permadeath Travis Casey
- Alternatives to Permadeath T o F
- User-created content ownership Edward Glowacki
- User-created content ownership Zach Collins {Siege}
- User-created content ownership Christopher Allen
- User-created content ownership Richard A. Bartle
- User-created content ownership Christopher Allen
- User-created content ownership Sean Kelly
- User-created content ownership Richard A. Bartle
- User-created content ownership Blane Bramble
- User-created content ownership Jon Lambert
- Black Snow Revisited Jessica Mulligan
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Jeff Cole
- Black Snow Revisited Jeff Cole
- Black Snow Revisited ghovs
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Marian Griffith
- Black Snow Revisited John Buehler
- Black Snow Revisited Rudy Fink
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited ghovs
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Norman Short
- Black Snow Revisited Kristen L. Koster
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Norman Short
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Adam
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Derek Licciardi
- Black Snow Revisited Adam
- Black Snow Revisited Koster, Raph
- Black Snow Revisited Richard Woolcock
- Black Snow Revisited Derek Licciardi
- Black Snow Revisited Adam
- Black Snow Revisited Dan Merillat
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Jeremy Noetzelman
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Jeremy Noetzelman
- Black Snow Revisited Zach Collins {Siege}
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited John Robert Arras
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Jon Lambert
- Black Snow Revisited David H. Loeser Jr.
- Black Snow Revisited Brian Bilek
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Marian Griffith
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Conference of possible interest for commercial games Rayzam
- BIZ NEWS: Virtual kingdom richer than Bulgaria Kylotan
- HELP WANTED! Roger Hicks
- HELP WANTED! Shane Gough
- Black Snow Revisited Dave Rickey
- Black Snow Revisited Brad McQuaid
- Black Snow Revisited Leverett, William
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Dr. Cat
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Jason Booth
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Black Snow Revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- GDC articles Koster, Raph
- GDC articles Koster, Raph
- TECH: Complex NPCs * * * * * *
- TECH: Complex NPCs Acius
- TECH: Complex NPCs Dave Rickey
- TECH: Complex NPCs tryguy74@hotmail.com
- TECH: Complex NPCs Sasha Hart
- TECH: Complex NPCs Sean Kelly
- TECH: Complex NPCs tryguy74@hotmail.com
- TECH: Complex NPCs John Robert Arras
- TECH: Complex NPCs tryguy74@hotmail.com
- TECH: Complex NPCs Rudy Neeser
- TECH: Complex NPCs Robert Zubek
- TECH: Complex NPCs Madrona Tree
- TECH: Complex NPCs tryguy74@hotmail.com
- TECH: Complex NPCs Sasha Hart
- TECH: Complex NPCs Sean Kelly
- More GDC Koster, Raph
- My GDC talks Koster, Raph
- My GDC talks Koster, Raph