March 2002
- ADMIN: Sorry for the delays J C Lawrence
- progress quest matt hellige
- progress quest Frank Crowell
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Dan MacDonald
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Vincent Archer
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Fred Clift
- Synchronizing Client and Server... Dan MacDonald
- Thank you from MudWorld ucmm@inetsolve.com
- [rpg-create] Female Gamers (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Time Theory David C.Z. Wacks
- Time Theory Marc Bowden
- Time Theory Travis Nixon
- Time Theory Marc Bowden
- Time Theory Koster, Raph
- Time Theory Freeman, Jeff
- Time Theory Eli Stevens
- Time Theory Matt Mihaly
- Time Theory Peter Tyson
- Time Theory Mats Lidstrom
- Time Theory Anderson, David
- Time Theory Mats Lidstrom
- Time Theory Vincent Archer
- Time Theory David Kennerly
- Time Theory Torgny Bjers
- [GameDesign] "How to tell if a game design is good or bad" (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [decentralization] time may have structure (fwd) J C Lawrence
- EQ RPG Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Rapture Matt Mihaly
- Re:Time Theory Talies the Wanderer
- Re:Time Theory Travis Nixon
- Re:Time Theory Leland Hulbert II
- MMORPG Comparison Elia Mörling
- More Prevalent and Effective Emotes Paul Schwanz
- More Prevalent and Effective Emotes John Buehler
- Meridian 59 re-launched! Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- MUD-Dev GDC dinner and Pseudo-META BBQ J C Lawrence
- [Meta] EQ RPG J C Lawrence
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Jessica Mulligan
- Blacksnow revisted Jeff Cole
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted amanda@alfar.com
- Blacksnow revisted Zach Collins {Siege}
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted amanda@alfar.com
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Marian Griffith
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted amanda@alfar.com
- Blacksnow revisted Eli Stevens
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Mark Eaton
- Blacksnow revisted Kylotan
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Travis Casey
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Marc Bowden
- Blacksnow revisted Paul Schwanz
- Blacksnow revisted Kylotan
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted shaver@mozilla.org
- Blacksnow revisted Patrick Black
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Amanda Walker
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Amanda Walker
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted Ron Gabbard
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Paul Schwanz
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Paul Schwanz
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted shren
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Damion Schubert
- Blacksnow revisted Paul Schwanz
- Blacksnow revisted Jessica Mulligan
- Blacksnow revisted Christopher Kohnert
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Bill Williamson
- Blacksnow revisted Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted fred@clift.org
- Blacksnow revisted Stefan Ripperger
From: Fred <fred@clift.org>
> You seem to be making the assumption, or rather declaring a
> statement that, blacksnow _does_ own the data. Among other
> things, this is the point of the lawsuit and that hasn't been
> decided (in court - it clearly has been decided in your mind...)
> Let me draw an anaolgy. Say I am and entrprising 8 yr old and I
> decide to charge neighborhood kids to allow them to come to my
> house and play with my legos. Say I charge them $10/month for the
> right to play with my legos. Are you saying that the neighborhood
> kids own the things they build with my legos at my house? Do they
> own the design? perhaps, do they own the legos? Of course not.
> _IF_ they own the design they created with my legos, then as was
> suggested in another email, a printout or a binary object dump, on
> cd, or in a zip file or a paper-printout of the design of the
> character would be all they had a right to. Stretching the
> analogy, I'd say that they could even sell the design to others,
> but I dont have to give random people you sold the designs to
> pre-built lego models with that design...
> What if this were a free game - no money changed hands - would
> that change things?
The following text is my complex attempt to get a clear evidence of
the injustice of BSI.
Let's do a further splitting of the elments on intellectual property
rights within digital game content on a logical basis. Don't wonder
if it gets complicated but i'll try to get a view on the end of a
possible lawsuit :)
In the case of interactive games we have data generators or data
formulas. A player is using a software user interface of a game and
as a following procedure a data generator creates a character in
example. The player takes it like it is and begins with playing his
character in the game world, the dataset will be saved into the
databank of the host. The player is renting the possibility to
control one or more datasets exclusively related to the game
world. The worth of a game dataset is defined through the game world
itself and in case of persistent worlds additionally through the
ingame-situation developed by inhabiting players. A game dataset
influences different actions in the game world. Those actions have
the main purpose to entertain people, that is the main purpose of
all games (i know some games dont entertain their players but that
was not the designer's purpose, hehe). This is the explicit reason
we can say a game dataset has a solid use in the gameworld. Outside
the gameworld a game dataset has no solid use because its in a
format that no application other than the original game application
could read. So to summarize the content: A player owns the option
to use datasets within the gameworld. But he doesnt own the
datasets.
If someone grants "somebody" the option to control a fabrication
unit within a legal agreement for the sole purpose that the
"somebody" is entertained by dealing with a simple lever (switching
it on and off = proceeding with fabrication and stopping it again
and again) how would you decide as a judge if the "somebody" claims
to legally own the wares fabricated in the time he was dealing with
the lever (..and being entertained)? Imho the judge would take the
sole purpose of the agreement (= Entertainment) into consideration
for all of his further judgements.
To go a little further, computer and videogames are not pure
entertainment, they are "interactive entertainment".
I haven't found any definition about the term "interactivity" but
about the adjective "interactive"
Meriam Websters Dictionary:
of, relating to, or being a two-way electronic communication
system (as a telephone, cable television, or a computer) that
involves a user's orders (as for information or merchandise) or
responses (as to a poll)
WordNet Dictionary:
adj 1: used especially of drugs or muscles that work together so
the total effect is greater than the sum of the two (or more)
[syn: synergistic] [ant: antagonistic] 2: capable of acting on
or influencing each other [syn: interactional]
Free On-line Dictionary of Computing:
<programming> A term describing a program whose input and output
are interleaved, like a conversation, allowing the user's input
to depend on earlier output from the same run. The interaction
with the user is usually conducted through either a text-based
interface or a graphical user interface. Other kinds of
interface, e.g. using speech recognition and/or speech
synthesis, are also possible.
So i derive the definitions to the term "interactivity" in a simple
way: One element is using an element to influence itself, a "third"
element or a number of other elements. Two or more elements are
influencing each other, are acting together to influence theirself
or a number of other element(s) around them. [Element = a living
being, object, item, landscape]
Therefore i state that with acting in an interactive manner, you
don't create elements but you change elements or different
situations. If you change a situation the result (possible element)
of that situation isn't meant to be exclusively yours. In the case
of an online game you're giving an order through the user interface
and this order (its the interactive procedure of the element Player)
is processed by a data formula within the serverside code which is
exclusive property to the host. The graphics data on the clientside
has the purpose to visualize the dynamic server datasets the player
is able to control and the purpose to simplify the controlling
process of the player-to-character within the game.
An acquired game item can't belong to a player because the player
didn't gained it. The only thing the player did, was starting an
interaction with his character dataset on the server and a following
interaction from the character dataset to another dataset (i.e.: a
monster) on a server. This 2 phasing interaction resulted in the
gain of an item which belongs to the character dataset of the player
but not to the player himself. I think here we have a clear
advantage to the game developers. The best here is to say: The
player is the iniator of actions not the executive part!
Additionally:
The software we as game developers or publishers are selling is
not just software like Photoshop which you're using to design
textures (royalty free). I'll call it "producing software"
now. Our game software is officially called "interactive
entertainment software" and the purpose of this software is to be
entertained, not to produce something. Groups that want to produce
something out of an existing interactive entertainment product
(with the straight purpose to be commercial successfull) and make
money with it, will always broke the laws.
If you are a third party developer developing expansions or addons
with provided "ingame tools" of the original game and you want to
make money out of that, you'll have to make an agreement with the
developer or publisher of the original game software otherwise
you'll be break the copyrights and will be persecuted by the
law. I know there is a huge black market for such (mission) addons
and the original developers can't trace all of them back but as i
know most of them are illegal at least here in germany. An
agreement between a developer and a third party developer will
always warrant that all products are on the same line in regard to
the purpose, vision, quality or whatever of the game.
To another point in a lawsuit:
If a developer like Mythic Entertainment or Funcom has to defend
itself on the court it has to do the following: You as a developer
must proof that the "commercialization" of your "ingame-elements"
by others results in a damaging of the "host-client-relationship"
or in a negative affect on the play-ground that you can't
compensate. If you can proof this clearly BSI won't have any
chance on court.
With my pregoing mail about the legitimation of the EULA through a
simple info on the product box the matchpoints should eagerly go to
developers like Mythic.
ok this was my small statement for today ;)
Stefan Ripperger aka "Drakewl" - Blacksnow revisted Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Blacksnow revisted Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Blacksnow revisted Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisted Stefan Ripperger
- Blacksnow revisted Kyle Leithoff
- Blacksnow revisted Christopher Allen
- Blacksnow revisted Stefan Ripperger
- Blacksnow revisted Fred Clift
- Blacksnow revisted Mike Shaver
- [Meta] EQ RPG Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- [Meta] EQ RPG Dave Rickey
- [Meta] EQ RPG Vincent Archer
- Blacksnow revisited John Robert Arras
- Blacksnow revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blacksnow revisited Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Blacksnow revisited Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Blacksnow revisited Mike Mormando
- Blacksnow revisited Matt Mihaly
- Re Moved: [Meta] EQ RPG szii@sziisoft.com
- Re Moved: [Meta] EQ RPG Rogue_Buddha
- Re Moved: [Meta] EQ RPG Matt Mihaly
- Blacksnow revisited Robert A. Rice Jr.
- [PR] Skotos Releases Hegemony Strategic Game Christopher Allen
- Skotos Seven StoryBuilder Obstacles & Openings Christopher Allen
- NEWS: mooix beta 1 released (successor to perlmoo) Joey Hess
- NEWS: mooix beta 1 released (successor to perlmoo) Fred Clift
- NEWS: mooix beta 1 released (successor to perlmoo) F. Randall Farmer
- Prediction (Was: Quake II has gone GPL) T o F
- Emminent Wisdom Mike Povoski
- Emminent Wisdom shannona@skotos.net
- Schubert's law of player expections John Szeder
- Re Moved: [Meta] EQ RPG Jason Booth
- Money matters Jean, Yannick (îlot)
- Money matters eric rhea
- Alternatives to Permadeath Jon Leonard
- Alternatives to Permadeath Richard A. Bartle
- Alternatives to Permadeath Blane Bramble
- Alternatives to Permadeath szii@sziisoft.com
- Alternatives to Permadeath Casbaria
- Alternatives to Permadeath Mordengaard
- Alternatives to Permadeath Brian Bilek
- Alternatives to Permadeath Jason Booth
- Alternatives to Permadeath Richard A. Bartle
- Alternatives to Permadeath Sasha Hart
- Alternatives to Permadeath Travis Casey
- Alternatives to Permadeath T o F
- User-created content ownership Edward Glowacki
- User-created content ownership Zach Collins {Siege}
- User-created content ownership Christopher Allen
- User-created content ownership Richard A. Bartle
- User-created content ownership Christopher Allen
- User-created content ownership Sean Kelly
- User-created content ownership Richard A. Bartle
- User-created content ownership Blane Bramble
- User-created content ownership Jon Lambert
- Black Snow Revisited Jessica Mulligan
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Jeff Cole
- Black Snow Revisited Jeff Cole
- Black Snow Revisited ghovs
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Marian Griffith
- Black Snow Revisited John Buehler
- Black Snow Revisited Rudy Fink
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited ghovs
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Norman Short
- Black Snow Revisited Kristen L. Koster
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Norman Short
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Adam
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Derek Licciardi
- Black Snow Revisited Adam
- Black Snow Revisited Koster, Raph
- Black Snow Revisited Richard Woolcock
- Black Snow Revisited Derek Licciardi
- Black Snow Revisited Adam
- Black Snow Revisited Dan Merillat
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Jeremy Noetzelman
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Jeremy Noetzelman
- Black Snow Revisited Zach Collins {Siege}
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited John Robert Arras
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Jon Lambert
- Black Snow Revisited David H. Loeser Jr.
- Black Snow Revisited Brian Bilek
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Marian Griffith
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Conference of possible interest for commercial games Rayzam
- BIZ NEWS: Virtual kingdom richer than Bulgaria Kylotan
- HELP WANTED! Roger Hicks
- HELP WANTED! Shane Gough
- Black Snow Revisited Dave Rickey
- Black Snow Revisited Brad McQuaid
- Black Snow Revisited Leverett, William
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited amanda@alfar.com
- Black Snow Revisited Dr. Cat
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Jason Booth
- Black Snow Revisited Fred Clift
- Black Snow Revisited Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Black Snow Revisited Matt Mihaly
- Black Snow Revisited Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Black Snow Revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- GDC articles Koster, Raph
- GDC articles Koster, Raph
- TECH: Complex NPCs * * * * * *
- TECH: Complex NPCs Acius
- TECH: Complex NPCs Dave Rickey
- TECH: Complex NPCs tryguy74@hotmail.com
- TECH: Complex NPCs Sasha Hart
- TECH: Complex NPCs Sean Kelly
- TECH: Complex NPCs tryguy74@hotmail.com
- TECH: Complex NPCs John Robert Arras
- TECH: Complex NPCs tryguy74@hotmail.com
- TECH: Complex NPCs Rudy Neeser
- TECH: Complex NPCs Robert Zubek
- TECH: Complex NPCs Madrona Tree
- TECH: Complex NPCs tryguy74@hotmail.com
- TECH: Complex NPCs Sasha Hart
- TECH: Complex NPCs Sean Kelly
- More GDC Koster, Raph
- My GDC talks Koster, Raph
- My GDC talks Koster, Raph