December 2002
- Towards virtual worlds ... (and the failure of the current industry) Marc De Mesel
- Towards virtual worlds ... (and the failure of the current industry) Rayzam
- Towards virtual worlds ... (and the failure of the current industry) Dave Rickey
- Towards virtual worlds ... (and the failure of the current industry) Jon A. Lambert
- Towards virtual worlds ... (and the failure of the current industry) Richard A. Bartle
- Retention without Addiction? Paul Schwanz
- Retention without Addiction? Madrona Tree
- Retention without Addiction? Paul Schwanz
- Retention without Addiction? Ted L. Chen
- Retention without Addiction? Terrence Martin
- Retention without Addiction? Acius
- Retention without Addiction? Freeman, Jeff
- Retention without Addiction? shren
- Retention without Addiction? Matthew Dobervich
- Retention without Addiction? Koster, Raph
- Retention without Addiction? shren
- Retention without Addiction? Marc Fielding
- Retention without Addiction? Ted L. Chen
- Retention without Addiction? Marc Fielding
- Retention without Addiction? Damion Schubert
- Retention without Addiction? Sasha Hart
- Retention without Addiction? Dave Rickey
- Retention without Addiction? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Retention without Addiction? Marc Fielding
- Retention without Addiction? Koster, Raph
- Retention without Addiction? Sean Kelly
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? Valerio Santinelli
- Retention without Addiction? shren
- Retention without Addiction? Valerio Santinelli
- Retention without Addiction? shren
- Retention without Addiction? sean@ffwd.cx
- Retention without Addiction? sean@ffwd.cx
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? Valerio Santinelli
- Retention without Addiction? Amanda Walker
- Retention without Addiction? Matthew Dobervich
- Retention without Addiction? Dave Trump
- Retention without Addiction? Koster, Raph
- Retention without Addiction? Kwon Ekstrom
- Retention without Addiction? Sean Kelly
- Retention without Addiction? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Retention without Addiction? Freeman, Jeff
- Retention without Addiction? Brian Hook
- Retention without Addiction? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Retention without Addiction? Amanda Walker
- Retention without Addiction? Lars Duening
- Retention without Addiction? amanda@alfar.com
- Retention without Addiction? bradley newton haug
- Retention without Addiction? Jessica Mulligan
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? Wes Connell
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? Koster, Raph
- Retention without Addiction? bradley newton haug
- Retention without Addiction? Koster, Raph
- Retention without Addiction? Wes Connell
- Retention without Addiction? Freeman, Jeff
- Retention without Addiction? shren
- Retention without Addiction? Paul Schwanz
- Retention without Addiction? ceo@grexengine.com
- Retention without Addiction? Tom Hubina
- Retention without Addiction? Sage
- Retention without Addiction? Acius
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? brian hook
- Retention without Addiction? Koster, Raph
- Retention without Addiction? Chris Holko
- Retention without Addiction? Koster, Raph
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? Marian Griffith
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? Paul Schwanz
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Retention without Addiction? Sasha Hart
- Retention without Addiction? Ted L. Chen
- Retention without Addiction? Madrona Tree
- Retention without Addiction? Rayzam
- Retention without Addiction? Koster, Raph
- Retention without Addiction? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Retention without Addiction? Vincent Archer
- Retention without Addiction? Lars Duening
- Retention without Addiction? Eric Hu
- Retention without Addiction? Sasha Hart
- Retention without Addiction? Eric Hu
- Retention without Addiction? Sasha Hart
- Retention without Addiction? Ted L. Chen
- Retention without Addiction? Eric Hu
- Retention without Addiction? shren
- Retention without Addiction? Dave Rickey
- Retention without Addiction? Sasha Hart
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? Paul Schwanz
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? Ted L. Chen
- Retention without Addiction? Ted L. Chen
- Retention without Addiction? Koster, Raph
- Retention without Addiction? Sage
- Retention without Addiction? Madrona Tree
- Retention without Addiction? Clay
- Retention without Addiction? rayzam
- Retention without Addiction? Kwon Ekstrom
- Retention without Addiction? Jessica Mulligan
- Retention without Addiction? Amanda Walker
- Retention without Addiction? Jessica Mulligan
- Retention without Addiction? bradley newton haug
- Retention without Addiction? Sasha Hart
- Retention without Addiction? rayzam
- Retention without Addiction? Sasha Hart
- Retention without Addiction? rayzam
- Retention without Addiction? Amanda Walker
- Retention without Addiction? Marc Fielding
- Retention without Addiction? Matt Mihaly
- Retention without Addiction? Sasha Hart
- Retention without Addiction? bradley newton haug
- Retention without Addiction? Koster, Raph
- Retention without Addiction? bradley newton haug
- Gamespy - Mod Support in the Game World Frank Crowell
- Free FFT Christopher Kohnert
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Dave Rickey
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Koster, Raph
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Dave Rickey
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Marc Fielding
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism shren
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Sean Kelly
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Koster, Raph
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism amanda@alfar.com
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Dave Rickey
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Vincent Archer
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Marc Hernandez
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Matt Mihaly
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Andrew L. Tepper
- Online Games Fighting Terrorism Amanda Walker
- AI not worth doing in our games? Sasha Hart
- AI not worth doing in our games? Freeman, Jeff
- AI not worth doing in our games? amanda@alfar.com
- AI not worth doing in our games? Marc Fielding
- AI not worth doing in our games? Kwon Ekstrom
- AI not worth doing in our games? Freeman, Jeff
- AI not worth doing in our games? shren
- AI not worth doing in our games? Kwon Ekstrom
- AI not worth doing in our games? Sean Kelly
- AI not worth doing in our games? Sasha Hart
- AI not worth doing in our games? Freeman, Jeff
- AI not worth doing in our games? Ted L. Chen
- AI not worth doing in our games? Sasha Hart
- AI not worth doing in our games? Robert Zubek
- AI not worth doing in our games? David H. Loeser Jr.
- AI not worth doing in our games? Damion Schubert
- AI not worth doing in our games? David H. Loeser Jr.
- AI not worth doing in our games? rayzam
- AI not worth doing in our games? Marian Griffith
- AI not worth doing in our games? Damion Schubert
- AI not worth doing in our games? David H. Loeser Jr.
- AI not worth doing in our games? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- AI not worth doing in our games? Matt Mihaly
- AI not worth doing in our games? Damion Schubert
- AI not worth doing in our games? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- AI not worth doing in our games? Kwon Ekstrom
- AI not worth doing in our games? Matt Mihaly
- AI not worth doing in our games? Travis Casey
- AI not worth doing in our games? amanda@alfar.com
- AI not worth doing in our games? Damion Schubert
- AI not worth doing in our games? Sasha Hart
- AI not worth doing in our games? Christer Enfors
- Total Annilation of Downtime shren
- Total Annilation of Downtime amanda@alfar.com
- Total Annilation of Downtime Koster, Raph
- Total Annilation of Downtime Matthew Dobervich
- Total Annilation of Downtime Koster, Raph
- Total Annilation of Downtime Jessica Mulligan
- Total Annilation of Downtime Justin Quimby
- Total Annilation of Downtime Matt Mihaly
- Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Total Annilation of Downtime Chris Holko
- Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Total Annilation of Downtime Wes Connell
- Total Annilation of Downtime J C Lawrence
- Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Total Annilation of Downtime Sanvean
- Total Annilation of Downtime Matt Mihaly
- Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Total Annilation of Downtime Matt Mihaly
- Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Total Annilation of Downtime Eric Hu
- Total Annilation of Downtime Steven J. Owens
- Total Annilation of Downtime Eric Hu
- Total Annilation of Downtime Marc Fielding
- Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Total Annilation of Downtime Wes Connell
- Total Annilation of Downtime Marc Fielding
- Total Annilation of Downtime Matt Mihaly
- Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Total Annilation of Downtime Marc Fielding
- Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Total Annilation of Downtime Brad McQuaid
- Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Total Annilation of Downtime Brad McQuaid
- Total Annilation of Downtime Frank Crowell
- Total Annilation of Downtime shren
- Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Total Annilation of Downtime Freeman, Jeff
- Total Annilation of Downtime Vincent Archer
- Total Annilation of Downtime shren
- Total Annilation of Downtime Eric Hu
- Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Total Annilation of Downtime Matt Mihaly
- Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Total Annilation of Downtime Damion Schubert
- Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Retention without Addiction? (Koster, Raph) Dr. Cat
- MudDev FAQ - part I Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ - part II Marian Griffith
- But wait, there's more... Dave Rickey
- Where are raids from? Where are they going? Vladimir Cole
- MMOG Production Costs vs. Audience Growth (was Online Games Fighting Terrorism) Marc Fielding
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Brian Hook
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Sean Kelly
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Damion Schubert
- Yikes Amanda Walker
- reputation system references Bruce Mitchener
- expansion packs Matt Mihaly
- expansion packs Marc Fielding
- expansion packs Wes Connell
- expansion packs Dave Rickey
- expansion packs Marc Fielding
- expansion packs Koster, Raph
- expansion packs Wes Connell
- expansion packs Eric Hu
- expansion packs Wes Connell
- expansion packs Eric Hu
- expansion packs Wes Connell
- expansion packs Eric Hu
- expansion packs Damion Schubert
- expansion packs Derek Licciardi
- expansion packs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- expansion packs Marc Fielding
- expansion packs kressilac@insightbb.com
- (no subject) Kent Peterson
- (no subject) Rayzam
- New Scientist Article... B.Beuger
- New Scientist Article... Rayzam
- New Scientist Article... Marc Fielding
- Questing (was AI not worth doing in our games?) Vincent Archer
- Description Content was: Total Annilation of Downtime Wes Connell
- Complexities of Retention without Addiction? WAS Retention Without Addiction bradley newton haug
- Complexities of Server Implementation? WAS Retention Without Addiction bradley newton haug
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot bradley newton haug
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Matt Mihaly
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Justice Ocker
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot John Robert Arras
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Justice Ocker
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Marc Fielding
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot John Robert Arras
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Damion Schubert
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Matt Mihaly
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot bradley newton haug
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Wes Connell
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Damion Schubert
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Matt Mihaly
- Pay for Item MMOG : Entropia article on Slashdot Matt Mihaly
- Instancing, or Franchising? Dr. Cat
- Questions about my MUD design Christer Enfors
- Questions about my MUD design Peter Harkins
- Questions about my MUD design kressilac@insightbb.com
- Questions about my MUD design Wes Connell
- Questions about my MUD design eric leaf
- Questions about my MUD design Timothy Dang
- Questions about my MUD design Christer Enfors
- Questions about my MUD design marsian@desert-island.m.isar.de
- Towards virtual worlds (and the failure of the current industry) Marcdemesel@hotmail.com
--<cut>--
Note: This message was written via the list web archives. There is
no guarantee that the claimed author is actually the author.
--<cut>--
Original message: http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2002Q4/msg00324.php
In relation to the article 'Sins of an Empire'
(http://www.stratics.com/content/editorials/articles/sins.shtml)
I just got an email from the author, Darien Kane, in which she
forwarded an email exchange she had with Brad McQuaid, producer of
Everquest. It's an interesting read:
<EdNote: The original quoting format was inconsistent and somewhat
confusing. I've normalised as best I could. My apologies for any
errors.>
--<cut>--
To: darienkane@stratics.com
From: Brad McQuaid [mailto:bmcquaid@sigilgames.com]
Date: segunda-feira, 2 de dezembro de 2002 06:19
Subject: Sins of the Empire
Hi there,
First, a few questions:
Do you want a reality simulation or a game?
If you are trying to simulate reality in VR, then you have some
points, and looking back on history and how civilization evolved
is very valid.
If you are trying to create a game, which by definition is about
being entertained and having fun, then I think, with all due
respect, I'd throw much of what you quoted out :)
Let me be more specific and respond to your article more
specifically:
> Every society must be able to answer the basic biological needs
> of its members: food, drink, shelter, and medical care.
Brad: True, but finding food, drink, shelter, and medical care in
a game is typically not fun... these are realities we must endure
in RL and that most people want to escape from in games.
> Probably the most important of all, this prerequisite entails a
> number of flaws in current MMOGs that simply make realistic
> empire managing impossible. First off, the true importance of a
> society depends on its efficiency when supplying members with
> necessities; however, when characters don't need to eat or
> drink, this importance disappears… and they might as well live
> as hermits in the woods (as in fact most characters of current
> MMOGs do).
But they are not. Most players certainly are not hermits -- human
beings are social animals, and when you make a game, especially a
game that rewards interdependence, the majority do NOT act as
hermits. Finding food, drink, and shelter are NOT the only 'needs'
you can place into an MMOG to bring people together and I'm glad
they're not, because I honestly don't think it would much of an
entertaining experience.
> Therefore, here we have the first sin that stands in the way of
> a truly meaningful social projects: lack of biological
> necessities.
Are we making social projects or games? I guess if it's the
former, ignore this email, because I'm definitely biased here: I
want to make massively multiplayer games, not massively online
simulations of life. Why? Well, for one, I want to play in them
and have fun, and 2. I just don't see any big publishers wanting
to fund the latter :)
> Shelter has been poorly addressed so far. The human(oid) body is
> fragile; hence the tendency to band together and try to defeat
> the harsh conditions that nature presents. If the body is
> invulnerable to environmental hazards, there is simply no need
> for shelter. There is no actual need to housing, thus rendering
> habitation complexes - villages - completely useless… merely a
> nifty thing to do when you want to pretend your character needs
> a place to live. Based on these premises, the second sin that
> must be corrected for the ultimate social experience to succeed
> is: invulnerability to environmental hazards.
I respectfully disagree, unless you could make vulnerability to
environmental hazards FUN. If you can, cool, go for it. But,
regardless, these are certainly NOT the only reasons to encourage
people to build 'shelter'. UO already proved this: houses are
places to meet and socialize, they are places to store goods, and
they are a means to show off achievements to others (I have a
tower and you only have a house, ha!). And, trust me, UO has only
touched the tip of the iceberg when it comes to 'house' building.
> Medical care has the potential to enable an amazing experience
> if implemented correctly. As most of us have been told, an issue
> of great importance in the Middle Ages was proper
> sanitation. People that, for one reason or the other, lived
> outside the civilized areas were found to be much more
> vulnerable to diseases and other afflictions - often having a
> very short life span. Poorly treated wounds, reckless nutrition,
> and a generally mediocre lifestyle were a considerable drawback
> from living away from the cities.. unless, of course, you
> mastered the proper skills. In the towns, on the other hand,
> doctors hired by the State were usually able to stop plagues and
> ensure an average level of health to the population. This depth
> of health care has never been seen in any MMOG to date, digging
> another hole in path to meaningful empire building: shallow
> implementation of health problems and care.
Oh man, but who wants to get sick? Again, I have to ask are we
making Bubonic Plague simulators or games where you can wield
flaming swords or fly X-Wing fighters and blow up the Death Star,
saving thousands? Worrying about health care sucks enough in RL
-- I certainly don't want to see it in a game; rather I want to
have fun and, most importantly, partake in activities I can't in
real life.
> Every society must provide for the production and distribution
> of goods and services (perhaps through a division of labor,
> rules concerning property and trade, or ideas about the role of
> work). Once the need for biological necessities is
> acknowledged, actual ways of producing and transporting food is
> the next step. While this area has been reasonably covered in
> previous games, industrial scale food production requires a new
> level of variety and complexity. First off, resources MUST be
> limited in order to create an atmosphere of purposeful
> industrialization; where clever handling of resources is
> rewarded with profit/abundance. Unlimited resources end up
> creating a messy grab-and-go feast, with no concern for
> rationing, refining or careful evaluation of use.
Well, I don't think MMOGs have truly unlimited resources -- there
is a mechanism that limits the influx of resources and that is
time, just as the influx of resources in RL is controlled by
location, means to obtain the resource, distance to resource, etc.
I do think game designers could use a lot more of that to make
their games more interesting as LONG as what they end up doing is
FUN, and I know many are dabbing with item degradation, etc. But
they are also finding out that it's really hard to do so and keep
the game fun as well.
> Which points out one more defect in some systems of the present
> time: simplistic processes of refinement/ crafting.
I'll agree and disagree. I don't think it's a 'flaw' per se, but
rather an aspect insufficiently explored and advanced (like
everything else -- I don't think anything's near perfect in MMOGs,
but you probably could argue that crafting is one of the worst).
Yes, MMOGs should explore more detailed, complex, interesting,
rewarding and fun crafting systems.
> So the flaw here is: lack of fully methodical and varied ways of
> passing knowledge.
Well, again, not sure if I consider it a flaw... sure, it could be
better and games could promote the distribution of knowledge to a
greater degree, but it's very difficult. As important and key as
it is to MMOGs, it is also something that cannot be controlled
because MMOGs don't exist in a vacuum -- as long as players can
exit the virtual world and access information about that world
from web sites or spoiler books or what have you, it will be quite
a challenge. But I think we're up to it :)
> Every society must provide for the maintenance of internal and
> external order (laws, courts, police, wars,
> diplomacy). Understand this: human nature is chaotic. Our
> primary tendency is self-destruction. The challenge when
> building societies in RL is to overcome that tendency;
> therefore, it is just fair to expect the same in the virtual
> environment where the bad side of human nature is so much more
> evident. Now, one could read this and think: 'Well, so far MMOGs
> have been doing a good job in this sense, with flagging,
> reputation and all.' To these people I say: nothing could be
> farther from the truth. See, the very concept of law and order
> is subject to free interpretation. Different societies have
> completely different ideals of justice itself; forcing one
> inflexible system upon all the players is basically the worse
> approach one could possibly choose. Building an empire is about
> freedom to disagree, its about the ultimate in customization. If
> people cant have the liberty to choose what to believe in, we
> shall never get even close to a glimpse of roleplaying
> game. That said, the imperfection here is clearly: imposition of
> arbitrary legal systems and policing.
No offense, but didn't you end up contradicting yourself? The
'law' at the beginning states that you have to have law, courts,
police, etc. Then at the end you indict MMOGs for the imposition
of arbitrary legal systems and policing? And then earlier you
assert that law and order is up to free interpretation? Well, with
all due respect, no it's not, and for at least two reasons:
1. All civilizations come up with ultimately the same systems
because people inherently have in them a sense of right and
wrong... they may argue the specifics, degrees, and details, but
the core is there: don't kill me, take my stuff, harass me, etc.
2. MMOGs are GAMES. Games are not societies, which is why I
asked you up front what you are really after here. Do you want
a virtual world that is truly a society free to do certain
things, to own things, to basically mimic real life but inside a
virtual world? Great! So do we all. What was described in
Snowcrash and elsewhere is intriguing and I look forward to the
day when the technology on a variety of fronts is there so a
construct such as that can actually exist. But MMOGs are online
games... I guess I could ask this: are we taking about Soccer or
Football, or are we talking about the United States and
Australia? Definitely apples and oranges, though they could
theoretically exist both in real life and in a virtual world.
To that end, if we are talking about a game, there needs to be
rules to the game, lest the game is no fun. There needs to be a
body or group of people who are responsible for the integrity of
the game. And there needs to be a group of people within the
game that act as referees or umpires to make sure people aren't
cheating and/or to make judgments on issues where, on the
surface, it's unclear as to whether what's occurred is or isn’t
against the game's rules.
> Unfortunately, the conclusion is the same for both: when it
> comes to building an empire, the MMOG industry is a foul
> spectacle of incoherence, a true mockery of reason and logic.
Wow! With all due respect, sir, are you sure you're being fair?
They are in their infancy and despite their many flaws, over
800,000 people just in the United States not only regularly play
them but PAY to play them... I don't think a rational person would
do so were they engaging in foul spectacles of incoherence and
mockeries of reason and logic... no offense, but you're being a
bit rough on both us developers and players, methinks,
> But in a sunny morning in a near future, one mysterious company
> will stand up and announce a game of untold respect for human
> intelligence; the holy grail of online roleplaying. That
> morning, players will chant praises in one single voice,
> acknowledging the MMOG of all MMOGs. But until then, we count
> the days in front of the computer, shooting mongbats in the dark
> and helplessly watching as the bastions of creativity repeat the
> same errors all over again. Failing to realize that all these
> mistakes of other times are simply… the sins of the empire.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. Like many complex
constructs the world has developed over time, they usually advance
slowly but surely, building upon their predecessors, fixing
mistakes, trying new ideas, some of which work and some
don't... and then, over time, get pretty darn good (take the first
black & white movies with no sound vs. watching Episode 2 on a
progressive scan DVD on a sweet home theater system). A Ferrari
is a far cry better than a Model T, but then I'm sure glad Ford
made his car, and I sure hope there are cars in 40 years that
smoke today's Ferrari's :)
But do I think someone will come along and suddenly introduce some
radical paradigm shift that will instantly solve all the problems
and inadequacies found in today's MMOGs? No, I really
don't... forgive my cynicism, but as someone whose worked on a
variety of them for the last 6 years and who knows a great deal of
very smart people working on them, I just don't see it happening
(if it does, by the way, I’ll happily put my foot in my mouth and
sign on up to play) -- I see, rather, an exciting yet still
incremental path upward and onward until, one day, we or our
children or our children's children can truly escape into a
Holodeck of sorts and lose themselves into a completely immersive
world, civilization simulation or game... whatever they desire :)
A humble request: encourage gamers to support those who trying to
do just that rather than criticize them for not producing the
Messiah or Holy Grail of online games tomorrow, ok? Thanks :)
take care,
------------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
Original Producer and Co-Designer, EverQuest
President & CEO
Sigil Games Online, Inc.
------------------------------------------------
--<cut>--
<EdNote: The rest of this text appears to be a reply to Brad, but
was formatted and presented as a string of free text. I've
formatted it as if it were a message, forging the assumed header
block>
--<cut>--
To: Brad McQuaid [mailto:bmcquaid@sigilgames.com]
From: darienkane@stratics.com
Subject: Re: Sins of the Empire
Hey Brad,
Great points, all of them. Your view of affairs is very solid,
very concise. I will, of course, extend you the same courtesy you
showed by addressing my statements point-by-point, but I will ask
you to mind the fact that Sins of the Empires was written almost 2
years ago. Back then I couldnĀ“t count on the experience or the
perspective gained during the development of Archaean and the
projects that followed. Its safe to say I dropped much of the
idealism - and the harshness - you now see in these lines.
Nevertheless, there are some observations IĀ“d like to put on the
table.
> True, but finding food, drink, shelter, and medical care in a
> game is typically not fun... these are realities we must endure
> in RL and that most people want to escape from in games.
I think this is where we bump into one of those root beliefs about
gaming that will virulently undermine our discussion if we donĀ“t
get it out of the way now. Perhaps what draws people to play
games is not just an urge to escape reality, but also an awareness
of inconsequence. An awareness that no matter what unfolds in that
environment, they are safe from real-world outcomes and the labels
that come with them. TheyĀ“re free, not necessarily to be elves or
cyborgs, but to be rejected by a date (see The Sims) or to be
killed by afghan terrorists (see the load of games on the subject
even with all thatĀ“s been going on, no, because of all thatĀ“s been
going on).
Think about it, Brad. Lead psychologists all over the globe agree
that the underlying cause for all sorts of psychiatric disorders
is a chronic loss of perspective on life - an addiction to seeing
erradication behind one falling tree. Taking out the fear we all
have of reality is already enough to enliven a context, and to
turn failure and victory into shades of gray. Not everyone is
trying to escape from a context in games, to blast off into a
world of orcs and spells -- some people are merely looking to
phase out the life-threatening component that comes in the package
of Life, and try out that same context under the light of
inconsequence.
> But they are not. Most players certainly are not hermits --
> human beings are social animals, and when you make a game,
> especially a game that rewards interdependence, the majority do
> NOT act as hermits.
Human beings are indeed social animals, and, not surprisingly,
much of that is owed to the specifics that define us as a race:
the need for food, drink, shelter, and medical
care. Anthropologically speaking - and please bear with me on the
anthropology part - these factors gave birth to a chain of events
that are ultimately responsible for the way humankind turned out
to be after all these million years. WeĀ“re social largely because
we must, in the face of adversity. Some MMOGs force players to
band together in order to fend off monsters or get through
trap-ridden caves - the game of life lacks dungeons and dragons,
but excels in offering open-ended and non-linear challenges in the
form of physiological needs. Who can say which one is more fun?
Perhaps weĀ“re so biased to believe games are all about escape that
we never got to explore the value of inconsequence.
> Finding food, drink, and shelter are NOT the only 'needs' you
> can place into an MMOG to bring people together and I'm glad
> they're not, because I honestly don't think it would much of an
> entertaining experience.
It would be foolishly stoicist of me to say that there isnĀ“t an
intrinsically social component to the way we coexist - the
uncondicional human bond. At the risk of being accused of
overanalyzing human relationships, IĀ“ll dare to name that
component, which is the third of the three fundamental appeals
games in general offer (preceded by escape and inconsequence):
that would be unpredictability. This is truly what all humans
seek, in the form of exploration, reasoning, storytelling, gaming
and of course, socializing. So humans will seek humans to play
with, as a general rule, because of the unpredictability no
algorythm can fully provide. There is nothing you or I can do to
ever change that.
So let us get ourselves on the same page here, Brad. What IĀ“m
professing is that the humans will play together without any
incentive whatsoever -- the characters wonĀ“t. The humans will play
together simply because they want to, propelled by
unpredictability, and theyĀ“ll control their characters to reflect
that desire. But Brad... the characters have no such
motivations. But because they are controlled by the humans, their
behavior seems erratic, disconnected, uncharacteristic. Unhappy
with that trend, players all over the world started making up
excuses, little fancies to justify their charactersĀ“ behavior:
guilds, housing, player towns, wars, you name it. Chimeras with no
real backing to support them, but that make their behavior fit the
context. Even more accurate: they changed the context to receive
their behavior.
What I want, Brad, is just to extend to characters the same
motivation players have the luxury to afford. Right now, the
characters are hermits, the players are not. By using the tools of
the developer to aid customers in creating their chimeras, maybe
we can engineer a world that truly molds itself to embrace the
playersĀ“ unique behavioral patterns. Only then our games will be
wholly immersive, for their workings will feel so real customers
will never have to concoct tricks that will make them feel
in-character again. I sure overdid it in the last paragraph of my
ill-fated article, but I truly believe the paradigm of MMORPGs
wonĀ“t feature seventy races, two thousand spells or anything one
might expect... but an innocent respect for the ways man deals
with man, and an awareness that creativity is only a gift when its
not a demand.
> No offense, but didn't you end up contradicting yourself? The
> 'law' at the beginning states that you have to have law, courts,
> police, etc. Then at the end you indict MMOGs for the
> imposition of arbitrary legal systems and policing? And then
> earlier you assert that law and order is up to free
> interpretation? Well, with all due respect, no it's not, and
> for at least two reasons:
> 1. All civilizations come up with ultimately the same systems
> because people inherently have in them a sense of right and
> wrong... they may argue the specifics, degrees, and details,
> but the core is there: don't kill me, take my stuff, harass
> me, etc.
I donĀ“t think this is so, Brad. And I believe the difference
between paying a fine, losing your right hand and being put to
death would hardly be construed as a Ā“detail` by a player whose
character was found guilty.
> 2. MMOGs are GAMES. Games are not societies, which is why I
> asked you up front what you are really after here. Do you
> want a virtual world that is truly a society free to do
> certain things, to own things, to basically mimic real life
> but inside a virtual world? Great! So do we all. What was
> described in Snowcrash and elsewhere is intriguing and I look
> forward to the day when the technology on a variety of fronts
> is there so a construct such as that can actually exist. But
> MMOGs are online games... I guess I could ask this: are we
> taking about Soccer or Football, or are we talking about the
> United States and Australia? Definitely apples and oranges,
> though they could theoretically exist both in real life and in
> a virtual world. To that end, if we are talking about a game,
> there needs to be rules to the game, lest the game is no fun.
I may be guilty of trying to erect societies instead of games
here, yes. IĀ“ll concede here. But if fun is what weĀ“re ultimately
after - and youĀ“ve made it evident that this is the case here -
then merely reestating that something Ā“is a game` may not serve
the best interests of that purpose. Game is a sorely broad word,
Brad, you understand - it is a dynamic of options. It is said that
mathematics is the only science that exists by the force of
intention alone. Likewise, game is the only form of art that
exists from the moment two or more options make themselves
available. The strength of the game is therefore determined by the
quantity of said options, and their disposition amongst
themselves. That which detracts from the score of options is thus
proven to be detrimental to the game - that which only adds, is
good.
> There needs to be a body or group of people who are responsible
> for the integrity of the game. And there needs to be a group of
> people within the game that act as referees or umpires to make
> sure people aren't cheating and/or to make judgments on issues
> where, on the surface, it's unclear as to whether what's
> occurred is or isn't against the game's rules.
Again, we may be talking about two different issues here,
Brad. There must be referees or umpires to look after the world
and its health. I donĀ“t dispute that. But consider that, ideally,
that groupĀ“s allegiance is sworn to the world, not to individual
players and their characters. As such, their jurisdiction is
limited to protecting the worldĀ“s welfare, that is, the principle
of universal balance. This is done by making sure no player
procures advantages that are not normally available to the other
members of that world - cheating and hacking fall in this
category.
The second type of Ā“infraction` in MMOGs is much trickier, and
source of great controversy. IĀ“m painfully aware people can never
fully agree on whatĀ“s acceptable and whatĀ“s not among players -
thankfully so. But IĀ“ve laid out a two-item Ā“code of honor` to
making that distinction that you might find interesting, if
anything for the party story ;)
1. Does the action affect world balance?
If an action does not instantly put the perpetrator one notch
above the rest of the world in a universal comparison, it does
not threaten world balance. Duping a sword affects world
balance, since because that course of action is not available
to everyone, it benefits the perpetrator from outside the
context. Killing a fellow PC does not.
2. Does the action draw from character stats to determine its
success?
If so, the perpetrator may be merely reaping the fruit of
his/her contextual development. Who is to say someone who
breaks into a house and steals a gem is not just exercising
his right to interact with the world?
If the answer to 1. was Ā“no`, and the answer to 2. was Ā“yes`, then
there is a chance the action is better left to be judged by the
players themselves.
I sincerely believe you see the beauty I refer to in this issue,
Brad. Come on, weĀ“re both passionate gamers - weĀ“re both after the
same thing, on the same side. DonĀ“t you look forward to that game
where a player town wonĀ“t be defined by the color of its walls or
a charter on some website... but by its citizens` visions of
justice, expression and prosperity?
IĀ“ll save housing and distribution of knowledge for another time,
lest youĀ“ll be smothered with abstracts. If you should e-mail me
again (as I hope you will), feel free to use
darienlkane@netzero.net instead of my Stratics address - I donĀ“t
know for how long theyĀ“ll keep that forwarding active.
Be well, Darien
--<cut>-- - Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Matthew Dobervich
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Sean Kelly
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Matthew Dobervich
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Sean Kelly
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Valerio Santinelli
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Matthew Dobervich
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Valerio Santinelli
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Dubious Advocate
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Valerio Santinelli
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Dubious Advocate
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without A ddiction?) Koster, Raph
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Dubious Advocate
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Zach Collins {Siege}
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Dubious Advocate
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) shren
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Matthew Dobervich
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Dave Rickey
- Persistent worlds in NWN (was: Retention without Addiction?) Valerio Santinelli
- Complexities of MMOG Servers WAS Retention Without Addiction bradley newton haug
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. ra-whiteside@attbi.com
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. Kwon Ekstrom
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. Dave Rickey
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. Damion Schubert
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. Matt Mihaly
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. Josh Goldshlag
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. shren
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. Marc LaFleur
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. Sean Kelly
- Is database access a bottleneck? Prevayler. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Is database access a bottleneck? bradley newton haug
- Is database access a bottleneck? Koster, Raph
- Is database access a bottleneck? bradley newton haug
- Is database access a bottleneck? Ted L. Chen
- Is database access a bottleneck? Koster, Raph
- Is database access a bottleneck? Ted L. Chen
- Is database access a bottleneck? Sean Kelly
- Is database access a bottleneck? bradley newton haug
- Is database access a bottleneck? Amanda Walker
- Is database access a bottleneck? bradley newton haug
- Is database access a bottleneck? Robert Zubek
- Is database access a bottleneck? Ted L. Chen
- Is database access a bottleneck? Marc Fielding
- Is database access a bottleneck? Koster, Raph
- Is database access a bottleneck? Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Is database access a bottleneck? Koster, Raph
- Is database access a bottleneck? Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Is database access a bottleneck? Derek Licciardi
- Is database access a bottleneck? Amanda Walker
- Is database access a bottleneck? Dave Rickey
- Is database access a bottleneck? Amanda Walker
- Is database access a bottleneck? bradley newton haug
- Is database access a bottleneck? Sean Kelly
- Is database access a bottleneck? ceo@grexengine.com
- Is database access a bottleneck? Amanda Walker
- Is database access a bottleneck? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Is database access a bottleneck? Sean Kelly
- Is database access a bottleneck? Travis Nixon
- Is database access a bottleneck? Travis Nixon
- Is database access a bottleneck? Bruce Mitchener
- Is database access a bottleneck? Miroslav Silovic
- Is database access a bottleneck? Chris Holko
- Is database access a bottleneck? Amanda Walker
- Java Serialization ceo@grexengine.com
- Java Serialization Kwon Ekstrom
- Habitat papers? Richard A. Bartle
- Habitat papers? J C Lawrence
- Habitat papers? Koster, Raph
- Habitat papers? Damion Schubert
- Habitat papers? Richard A. Bartle
- Habitat papers? F. Randall Farmer
- Habitat papers? Richard A. Bartle
- ADMIN: Post formatting J C Lawrence
- Software Styles (was: Is database access a bottleneck) Kebernet
- Software Styles (was: Is database access a bottleneck) bradley newton haug
- Game industry (was Software Styles (was: Is database access a bottleneck)) Amanda Walker
- Wired Article on Reality Breakdown Dave Rickey
- Wired Article on Reality Breakdown Marc Fielding
- Wired Article on Reality Breakdown Wes Connell
- Wired Article on Reality Breakdown Marc Fielding
- Wired Article on Reality Breakdown Richard A. Bartle
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Brian Hook
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Marc Fielding
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Brian Hook
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Brian Hook
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Marc Fielding
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Koster, Raph
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Dave Rickey
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Valerio Santinelli
- AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Christopher Kohnert
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Wes Connell
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Dubious Advocate
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Serve rs) Koster, Raph
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Dubious Advocate
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Amanda Walker
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOGServer s) Koster, Raph
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOGServers) Jon A. Lambert
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOGServers) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOGServer s) Koster, Raph
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Matt Mihaly
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Martin Bassie
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOGServers) Corey Crawford
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOGServers) Dave Rickey
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime brian hook
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Marc Fielding
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Brian Hook
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Anni lation of Downtime Hanz, Rob
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Anni lation of Downtime Koster, Raph
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Christopher Allen
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Anni lation of Downtime Koster, Raph
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Travis Nixon
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Dubious Advocate
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Anni lation of Downtime Koster, Raph
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Anni lation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Valerio Santinelli
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Marc Fielding
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Valerio Santinelli
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Ling Lo
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Ted L. Chen
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Zach Collins {Siege}
- Subject Skewage was: Total Annilation of Downtime Wes Connell
- Is database access a bottleneck? Amanda Walker
- Is database access a bottleneck? Jo Dillon
- Is database access a bottleneck? bradley newton haug
- Is database access a bottleneck? Jo Dillon
- Is database access a bottleneck? bradley newton haug
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Koster, Raph
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Lars Duening
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Valerio Santinelli
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Wes Connell
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Acius
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Lars Duening
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Wes Connell
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Lars Duening
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dave Rickey
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Travis Nixon
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Damion Schubert
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Travis Nixon
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Mike Shaver
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Mike Shaver
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Travis Nixon
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Travis Nixon
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Damion Schubert
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Damion Schubert
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Kent Peterson
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Ron Gabbard
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Ron Gabbard
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Damion Schubert
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Peter Harkins
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marian Griffith
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server John Erskine
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server John Erskine
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Travis Nixon
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Damion Schubert
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server frosty@its.to
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Justin Stocks
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server rayzam
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Justin Stocks
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server rayzam
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Ron Gabbard
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Eric Hu
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server rayzam
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Madrona Tree
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Ted L. Chen
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server rayzam
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server amanda@alfar.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Eric Hu
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Madrona Tree
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Madrona Tree
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marian Griffith
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marian Griffith
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Travis Nixon
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Sasha Hart
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Koster, Raph
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Koster, Raph
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Travis Nixon
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Felix A. Croes
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server shren
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marian Griffith
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marian Griffith
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marian Griffith
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Lars Duening
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server shren
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Koster, Raph
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server shren
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dave Trump
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dave Rickey
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Hulbert, Leland
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Rayzam
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Rayzam
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dave Scheffer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Rayzam
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Rayzam
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Koster, Raph
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server John Robert Arras
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Sasha Hart
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server John Robert Arras
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server tomi.sarvela@iki.fi
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dave Scheffer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Tess Lowe
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Scott A. Farley
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Justin Stocks
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server bradley newton haug
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server bradley newton haug
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Kristen Koster
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Lars Duening
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Lars Duening
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Josh Goldshlag
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dave Rickey
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dave Rickey
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Koster, Raph
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dave Rickey
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dave Rickey
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dave Rickey
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Paul Schwanz
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Paul Schwanz
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Damion Schubert
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Paul Schwanz
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Travis Nixon
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Rayzam
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Travis Nixon
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Travis Nixon
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Koster, Raph
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Keith Brewer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Madrona Tree
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Freeman, Jeff
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Freeman, Jeff
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marian Griffith
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marian Griffith
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Freeman, Jeff
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Dubious Advocate
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Michael Tresca
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Valerio Santinelli
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Paul Schwanz
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Vincent Archer
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Damion Schubert
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Zach Collins {Siege}
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marian Griffith
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Matt Mihaly
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Paul Schwanz
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Ron Gabbard
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Ben Hoyt
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Ron Gabbard
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Sasha Hart
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Marc Fielding
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Jeff Cole
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Sasha Hart
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Jeff Cole
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Sasha Hart
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server adam
- Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Amanda Walker
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Jessica Mulligan
- Inspecting (was Total Annilation of Downtime) Amanda Walker
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOGServers) Amanda Walker
- Killology (Was: Retention without Addiction?) apollyon .
- Killology (Was: Retention without Addiction?) Damion Schubert
- Killology (Was: Retention without Addiction?) Sasha Hart
- Killology (Was: Retention without Addiction?) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Brian Hook
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Ted L. Chen
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Travis Nixon
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Ted L. Chen
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Ted L. Chen
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Ted L. Chen
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers ) Koster, Raph
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) sama@perchetopi.org
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) ceo@grexengine.com
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities ofMMOGServers) ceo@grexengine.com
- Heightfield vs. mesh was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Damion Schubert
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Dubious Advocate
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Serv ers) Koster, Raph
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Dubious Advocate
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Serv ers) Koster, Raph
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Dubious Advocate
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) shren
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Dubious Advocate
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Jeremy Noetzelman
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Dubious Advocate
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) Damion Schubert
- Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers) shren
- FW: Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Brian Hook
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Amanda Walker
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation ofDowntime eric leaf
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation ofDowntime John Buehler
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation ofDowntime Madrona Tree
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation ofDowntime John Buehler
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation ofDowntime Dave Rickey
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation ofDowntime Christopher Kohnert
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation ofDowntime Sean Kelly
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation ofDowntime Amanda Walker
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation ofDowntime Amanda Walker
- Scale was AC2 was Total Annilation of Downtime Marc Fielding
- Is database access a bottleneck? Amanda Walker
- Geometric Inconsistency was AC2 was Total... Martin Bassie
- Geometric Inconsistency was AC2 was Total... Dave Rickey
- Geometric Inconsistency was AC2 was Total... Amanda Walker
- Geometric Inconsistency was AC2 was Total... Martin Bassie
- Geometric Inconsistency was AC2 was Total... Steven J. Owens
- The changing nature of fun brian hook
- The changing nature of fun Chris Holko
- The changing nature of fun Christer Enfors
- The changing nature of fun Dread Quixadhal
- The changing nature of fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The changing nature of fun Ted L. Chen
- The changing nature of fun Amanda Walker
- The changing nature of fun Ted L. Chen
- The changing nature of fun Arnau RossellX CastellX
- The changing nature of fun John Buehler
- The changing nature of fun Brian Hook
- The changing nature of fun John Buehler
- The changing nature of fun Brian Hook
- The changing nature of fun John Buehler
- The changing nature of fun Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The changing nature of fun Marc Fielding
- The changing nature of fun Kwon Ekstrom
- The changing nature of fun Dubious Advocate
- The changing nature of fun Scott A. Farley
- The changing nature of fun Rayzam
- Furcadia and IGF John Robert Arras
- Furcadia and IGF Dr. Cat
- New Bartle Series Completed Shannon Appelcline
- [Off-list] Killology (Was: Retention without Addiction?) Sasha Hart
- [Off-list] Killology (Was: Retention without Addiction?) shren
- [Off-list] Killology (Was: Retention without Addiction?) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [Off-list] Killology (Was: Retention without Addiction?) Harrok
- [Off-list] Killology (Was: Retention without Addiction?) Steven J. Owens
- Casual player socialization (was: Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server) John Buehler
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers)) Amanda Walker
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Dubious Advocate
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Amanda Walker
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (was Complexities of MMOG Servers)) Jessica Mulligan
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Koster, Raph
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Szii
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Matt Mihaly
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Koster, Raph
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Ted L. Chen
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Matt Mihaly
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Ted Milker
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Dubious Advocate
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Koster, Raph
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Sasha Hart
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Koster, Raph
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) bhoyt47@hotmail.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Paul Schwanz
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Ted L. Chen
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Koster, Raph
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Marc Fielding
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) holding99@mindspring.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Travis Nixon
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Rayzam
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Michael Tresca
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) holding99@mindspring.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Sasha Hart
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) holding99@mindspring.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Marc Fielding
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Robert Zubek
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) holding99@mindspring.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Ted L. Chen
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) holding99@mindspring.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Robert Zubek
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) holding99@mindspring.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) szii@sziisoft.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) holding99@mindspring.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Sasha Hart
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Paul Schwanz
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) szii@sziisoft.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Koster, Raph
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) szii@sziisoft.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Rayzam
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Dave Rickey
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) bhoyt47@hotmail.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Marc Fielding
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Rayzam
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Dave Rickey
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Dubious Advocate
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Dave Rickey
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) szii@sziisoft.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Amanda Walker
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComp lexities of MMOG Servers)) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Marian Griffith
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Marian Griffith
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Koster, Raph
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Dubious Advocate
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Amanda Walker
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Marian Griffith
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Eric Hu
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Jacob Cord
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Damion Schubert
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) andrea.glorioso@binary-only.com
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Eric Hu
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Koster, Raph
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Eric Hu
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Dave Rickey
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Matthew Dobervich
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Amanda Walker
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) P S
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) shren
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Ron Gabbard
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Marian Griffith
- Crafting Money (was: Star Wars Galaxies: 1 characte r per server) Freeman, Jeff
- Crafting Money (was: Star Wars Galaxies: 1 characte r per server) Andrew L. Tepper
- Enforcing roleplay on small muds Arnau RosselloĢ CastelloĢ
- Enforcing roleplay on small muds Oliver Newland
- Enforcing roleplay on small muds Arnau RossellX CastellX
- Enforcing roleplay on small muds Blane Bramble
- Enforcing roleplay on small muds Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Enforcing roleplay on small muds Arnau RossellX CastellX
- Enforcing roleplay on small muds Marc Fielding
- Enforcing roleplay on small muds Sasha Hart
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM (wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Amanda Walker
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Matthew Dobervich
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Dubious Advocate
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Damion Schubert
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) John Szeder
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Russell Lewis
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Eric Hu
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Damion Schubert
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Arnau RossellX CastellX
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) shren
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasCompl exities of MMOG Servers)) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Travis Casey
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Ryan S. Dancey
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Amanda Walker
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Marc Fielding
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Damion Schubert
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Marc Fielding
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Rayzam
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Damion Schubert
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Rayzam
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasCompl exities of MMOG Servers)) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasCompl exities of MMOG Servers)) Lars Duening
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasCompl exities of MMOG Servers)) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Damion Schubert
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasCompl exities of MMOG Servers)) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Jeff Freeman
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Marc Fielding
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasCompl exities of MMOG Servers)) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasCompl exities of MMOG Servers)) Sannio
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasCompl exities of MMOG Servers)) Quinn, Keith
- Brand Loyalty (was Requirements for MM(wasComplexities of MMOG Servers)) Marc Fielding
- ADMIN: Issues of character J C Lawrence
- CORBA in MMOGs (and why Grex doesn't use it) ceo@grexengine.com
- DAOC is Disneyland? :) Scale of enviornment ceo@grexengine.com
- Puzzle Pirates Matt Mihaly
- Online Gaming in Asia Eric Hu