October 2002

• MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article Joe Andrieu
• terrain rendering (was: Future of MMOGs) Bruce Mitchener
• Furcadia improvement (was: Massive Online Gaming magazine) Zach Collins {Siege}
• MudWorld News ucmm@inetsolve.com
• Furcadia improvement Dr. Cat
• • Furcadia improvement Ling Lo
• Inside the Serious Business of Online Gaming Michael Tresca
• Fw: [Nel] Would a complete gpl'ed and copylefted online gaming world be financialy succes? Valerio Santinelli
• Would a complete gpl'ed and copylefted online gaming world be financialy succes? Marc De Mesel
• • Would a complete gpl'ed and copylefted online gaming world be financialy succes? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Would a complete gpl'ed and copylefted online gaming world be financialy succes? shren
• 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Boyle, Paul
• • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Dave Rickey
  • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Dave Rickey
      • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Dave Rickey
          • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
            • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
            • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
              • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Dave Rickey
              • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Rayzam
                • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players shren
          • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
          • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
            • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Rayzam
                From: "Ola Fosheim Grøstad" <olag@ifi.uio.no>
                
                > What I need in order to be convinced that I am wrong is a good
                > example of immersion into a virtual world where you cannot apply
                > the concept of flow. Daydreaming in a virtual world, would either
                > be immersed roleplaying or it would be daydreaming in the physical
                > world. If it is roleplay then it would be flow, but not really
                > dependent on the world but the values you attribute to your
                > character. A roleplayer is primarily striving to stay immersed
                > into his character and the world is just inspiration/tools/hooks
                > for that activity. The roleplayer would grasp for "stuff" which
                > emphasis the valuessystem of his character and play down "stuff"
                > that is at odds with it (like those annoying OOC people). The flow
                > process is what makes it possible to ignore all that stuff which
                > is getting in the way (like your keyboard, the neighbours playing
                > music, OOC people, designflaws etc). You focus on something which
                > you believe you will be able to control if you put mental
                > resources into it.
                
                > If there is no challenge (stuff to pay attention to, stuff that
                > matters, stuff that captures your interest) in the world, then you
                > cannot have flow and immersion will start to fade... and you will
                > start to get annoyed over your neighbours etc.
                
                Attention is a mechanism for dealing with limited capacity. We
                wouldn't need attention if we could process everything coming our
                way simultaneously. With attention, we prioritize what we need to
                process, and preferentially process the most salient while skipping
                out on processing others.
                
                With that background, I am heading towards your point :) I agree
                that you need to have a world that captures your attention. But what
                this means in a design sense is to have enough things going on so
                that your capacity is overfilled. As you say, you can start to get
                annoyed at your neighbors. However, if the game is only keeping 1
                stream of information going to you, no matter how good it is, then
                your neighbors can still annoy you. So it's not just a challenge
                that creates immersion, but it's having enough streams of
                information, interaction, entertainment coming in with enough
                salience that random stimuli in the real world drop so far on the
                hierarchy they're unnoticed. That's when you truly become immersed
                in the world. We are creatures that like to fill up on the world. We
                push to fill our capacity.
                
                Let me try to give some real life examples. When I have a mundane
                chore to do, music helps. I can listen to the music to enjoy the
                sounds, sing along either out loud or internally, sway and move to
                it, and anticipate the next line of lyrics. This keeps me mentally
                busy, so I can do the chore without being distracted by everything
                around, or becoming annoyed by the mundanity of the chore
                itself. Some people like doing repetitive chores for silence and
                meditation. In that case, those people are concentrating internally,
                also keeping their circuits busy, closing down the outside
                world. That I can do when I cycle, others when they run.
                
                So how does this help with game design? In an age when things seem
                to be heading to the simpler design elements, I argue you need
                more. If I postulate needing 3 channels to keep someone immersed,
                how would that work? Well, in a standard party oriented combat: the
                tank monitors his hit points, he monitors the spell capabilities of
                the blasters and healers, and he's using this to determine when to
                temporarily retreat. Other party members have similar
                breakdowns. Additionally some one or more of them will monitor the
                NPC they're killing. When it comes to combat, most games have
                adequate channels. This can be improved upon, by adding combat
                styles or other facets of combat that require more active
                maintenance. NPC switches to slashing attacks, so you switch to
                parrying. Or the NPC modulates his spellshield to protect against
                fire, so you switch to casting lightning bolts.
                
                For Killers, it's easy. Others are the channels. If a Killer is
                alone in the woods, will anyone hear him scream in frustration?
                
                For Socializers, it's alo relatively easy. Other players are also
                the channels. But others can as easily be negative stimuli as
                positive. So the designer has to have ways for Socializers to
                interact with those they want, and avoid those they don't. Clan or
                guild channels, channels for chatting, talking, long distance tells,
                news to read and write, mail to send and receive. Nowadays, add
                IM-functions. Eventually, VoIP.
                
                For an explorer, 3 channels are either easy, or very
                hard. Everything an explorer can interact with becomes a viable
                channel. What matters is the salience, or personal value, the
                explorer puts on it. If an area has to be solved to get to the
                end/big monster, that has one level. But what if it has a lot of
                other things in it to interact with for fun? Yes, I'm tracking my
                way through the woods, trying to find the cottage. I find a rope
                tied to a treebranch, probably used to swing and plop into the
                river. And there are some rabbit holes that I can try to coax
                rabbits out of. One spot along the river has trout jumping in it, I
                could stop and fish. There could be lots of these interactions
                around that have nothing to do with finding the cottage. The
                explorer should be able to look at, examine, touch, anything in
                around him. That consistency, along with the gems [or easter eggs],
                will keep the salience of everything high, and thus fill the 3
                channels.
                
                So in the end, while I agree that immersion is important for a game,
                and can be assigned to the 4 types, I don't believe it's a valid 3rd
                axis in this model. This is because immersion is determined by the
                designer. The player colors and weights the relative values of what
                the game world throws back at him.
                
                rayzam
                www.travellingbard.com
              • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Rayzam
                  • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
              • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
              • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Rayzam
                  • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                    • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Rayzam
                      • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                  • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
                  • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                    • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
                      • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                        • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
  • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
  • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Casbaria
    • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Miroslav Silovic
    • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
    • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Koster, Raph
      • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
        • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players justice@softhome.net
      • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
      • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
        • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Roy Trubshaw
        • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
  • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Miroslav Silovic
  • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Crosbie Fitch
  • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Crosbie Fitch
  • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Freeman, Jeff
  • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • • 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players Richard A. Bartle
• In Real Life Matthew Dobervich
• Massive Online Game magazine Richard A. Bartle
• • Massive Online Game magazine Dave Rickey
• 48 Hours Investigates Everquest Addiction Rayzam
• Massive Online Games Jessica Mulligan
• • Massive Online Games Koster, Raph
• Wired Article on The Sims Online Rayzam
• Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Richard A. Bartle
  • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Richard A. Bartle
      • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Richard A. Bartle
          • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
            • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Richard A. Bartle
              • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Boyle, Paul
  • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
    • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) nyee@nickyee.com
    • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
        • • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Koster, Raph
          • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Nicholas Yee
          • Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model (was: 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• Myst Online article at ferrago.co.uk Kent Peterson
• • Myst Online article at ferrago.co.uk shren
  • • Myst Online article at ferrago.co.uk Rayzam
    • Myst Online article at ferrago.co.uk Coyote
    • • Myst Online article at ferrago.co.uk Boyle, Paul
      • Myst Online article at ferrago.co.uk shren
    • Myst Online article at ferrago.co.uk Marc Bowden
    • Myst Online article at ferrago.co.uk Ted L. Chen
  • Myst Online article at ferrago.co.uk Sulka Haro
  • Myst Online article at ferrago.co.uk DeyjaL@aol.com
• What is the world? (was: Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model) Zach Collins {Siege}
• • What is the world? (was: Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • • What is the world? (was: Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model) Zach Collins {Siege}
    • • What is the world? (was: Weaknesses in the HCDS player type model) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• "On Virtual Economies" by Castronova Koster, Raph
• • "On Virtual Economies" by Castronova Ted L. Chen
  • • "On Virtual Economies" by Castronova Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
    • • "On Virtual Economies" by Castronova Ted L. Chen
• Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Brian Hook
  • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited brian hook
      • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited shren
        • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Brian Hook
          • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Paul Schwanz
            • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited shren
            • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Dave Rickey
              • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited shren
                • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Mark Eaton
              • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Michael Tresca
          • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Matt Mihaly
        • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Adam
          • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Matt Mihaly
          • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
            • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Matt Mihaly
              • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
              • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Michael Tresca
              • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Matt Mihaly
                • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Matt Mihaly
        • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Colin Coghill
        • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Koster, Raph
  • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ted L. Chen
  • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Sasha Hart
    • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ted L. Chen
    • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ted L. Chen
      • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ted L. Chen
          • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
            • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ted L. Chen
  • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Matt Mihaly
  • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited John Robert Arras
  • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ted L. Chen
    • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited John Robert Arras
      • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ted L. Chen
        • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited John Robert Arras
    • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited John Robert Arras
      • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Matt Mihaly
      • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Matt Mihaly
          • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Arnau Rosselló Castelló
      • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Clay
        • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Arnau Rosselló Castelló
  • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Kestanan
  • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Edward Glowacki
  • • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Matt Mihaly
    • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Morphable worlds, Reset based systems revisited Leigh Stillard
• What's in the lack of a name? shren
• • What's in the lack of a name? Rayzam
  • • What's in the lack of a name? shren
    • • What's in the lack of a name? Rayzam
  • What's in the lack of a name? Ted L. Chen
  • • What's in the lack of a name? shren
    • • What's in the lack of a name? Ted L. Chen
  • What's in the lack of a name? Harrok
  • • What's in the lack of a name? shren
    • • What's in the lack of a name? Dan Wyman
      • What's in the lack of a name? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
      • • What's in the lack of a name? Damion Schubert
        • • What's in the lack of a name? Rudy Fink
• Gaining insight from playing MUDs (MUD-Dev Storytelling in MMOGs article) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• Stunning success and catastrophic failure for skills. Ideas needed! Britt Green
• • Stunning success and catastrophic failure for skills. Ideas needed! shren
  • Stunning success and catastrophic failure for skills. Ideas needed! Lars Duening
  • Stunning success and catastrophic failure for skills. Ideas needed! Christopher Kohnert
  • • Stunning success and catastrophic failure for skills. Ideas needed! shren
    • • Stunning success and catastrophic failure for skills. Ideas needed! Christopher Kohnert
      • • Stunning success and catastrophic failure for skills. Ideas needed! shren
  • Stunning success and catastrophic failure for skills. Ideas needed! Edward Glowacki
  • • Stunning success and catastrophic failure for skills. Ideas needed! shren
• PKing minors Richard A. Bartle
• • PKing minors Jon A. Lambert
  • • PKing minors Richard A. Bartle
    • • PKing minors Crosbie Fitch
  • PKing minors Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • PKing minors Shane P. Lee
    • PKing minors shren
    • • PKing minors Justyn
• [Meta] Future of MMOGs amanda@alfar.com
• • [Meta] Future of MMOGs Ted L. Chen
  • • [Meta] Future of MMOGs amanda@alfar.com
    • • [Meta] Future of MMOGs Ted L. Chen
      • • [Meta] Future of MMOGs Koster, Raph
        • • [Meta] Future of MMOGs amanda@alfar.com
          • [Meta] Future of MMOGs Ted L. Chen
        • [Meta] Future of MMOGs amanda@alfar.com
        • • [Meta] Future of MMOGs Ted L. Chen
          • • [Meta] Future of MMOGs Amanda Walker
            • • [Meta] Future of MMOGs Matt Mihaly
              • • [Meta] Future of MMOGs amanda@alfar.com
  • [Meta] Future of MMOGs Damion Schubert
• Starting to play (was: Morphable worlds...) Tess Lowe
• [TECH] Windows Telnet capabilities Arnau Rosselló Castelló
• • [TECH] Windows Telnet capabilities Matt Owen
  • • [TECH] Windows Telnet capabilities Acius
• November Issue of the MUD Journal Sanvean
• • November Issue of the MUD Journal Tamzen Cannoy