January 2002

• Toontown Koster, Raph
• • Toontown Michelle Elbert
  • Toontown Valerio Santinelli
• FW: MMORPGs & MUDs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
• • FW: MMORPGs & MUDs Skaei@aol.com
• DGN: Question about MU* acronyms Randolf Richardson
• • DGN: Question about MU* acronyms Lars Duening
  • DGN: Question about MU* acronyms J C Lawrence
  • DGN: Question about MU* acronyms Frank Crowell
• ADMIN: I goofed J C Lawrence
• Pueblo MUD client info Bruce Mitchener
• • Pueblo MUD client info Piotr Banski
  • • Pueblo MUD client info Bruce Mitchener
  • Pueblo MUD client info Mathieu Castelli
  • Pueblo MUD client info William B. Taylor
• The MUD Companion Derek Snider
• Game animations Jon Lambert
• Boys and Girls - was (MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs) Joel Palmtag
• Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
• • Quake II has gone GPL Mathieu Castelli
  • • Quake II has gone GPL Valerio Santinelli
    • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
    • • Quake II has gone GPL Vincent Archer
      • • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
  • Quake II has gone GPL Andrew Hefford
  • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
  • • Quake II has gone GPL ling@slimy.com
    • • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
      • Quake II has gone GPL Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
      • • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
        • Quake II has gone GPL Bruce Mitchener
  • Quake II has gone GPL Brian Hook
  • • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
  • Quake II has gone GPL Marc Hernandez
  • • Quake II has gone GPL Jeremy Noetzelman
    • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
    • • Quake II has gone GPL Jeremy Noetzelman
      • • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
        • • Quake II has gone GPL Valerio Santinelli
          • • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
            • • Quake II has gone GPL Valerio Santinelli
    • Quake II has gone GPL Noplex
    • • Quake II has gone GPL Jeremy Noetzelman
      • • Quake II has gone GPL Nicholas E. Walker
        • Quake II has gone GPL Eli Stevens
        • • Quake II has gone GPL Valerio Santinelli
          • • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
        • Quake II has gone GPL Dominic J. Eidson
        • • Quake II has gone GPL J C Lawrence
          • • Quake II has gone GPL Nicholas E. Walker
            • • Quake II has gone GPL J C Lawrence
              • Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
              • • Quake II has gone GPL Vincent Archer
                • • Quake II has gone GPL Travis Nixon
                  • • Quake II has gone GPL Vincent Archer
                    • Quake II has gone GPL Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
                    • • Quake II has gone GPL Valerio Santinelli
                    • Quake II has gone GPL shren
                    • • Quake II has gone GPL Travis Nixon
                      • Quake II has gone GPL Joshua Judson Rosen
                      • • Quake II has gone GPL shren
                        • Quake II has gone GPL T o F
                        • • Quake II has gone GPL shren
                          • • Quake II has gone GPL John Buehler
                            • • Quake II has gone GPL Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
                              • • Quake II has gone GPL John Buehler
                                • • Quake II has gone GPL shren
                                  • • Quake II has gone GPL Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
                                    • • Quake II has gone GPL John Buehler
                                      • • Quake II has gone GPL shren
                                      • Quake II has gone GPL shren
                                    • Quake II has gone GPL T o F
                                    • • Quake II has gone GPL shren
                                      • • Quake II has gone GPL Vincent Archer
                                        • • Quake II has gone GPL shren
                                          • • Quake II has gone GPL Vincent Archer
                      • Quake II has gone GPL Nathan F. Yospe
• Starting out. Joel Palmtag
• • Starting out. Edward Glowacki
  • Starting out. ghovs@plex.nl
  • Starting out. Joel Palmtag
  • Starting out. Lars Duening
  • Starting out. J C Lawrence
• TECH: Managing all your code Eric Rhea
• • TECH: Managing all your code Lars Duening
  • TECH: Managing all your code J C Lawrence
• Boys and Girls - was (MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #1 63 - 25 msgs) Koster, Raph
• • Boys and Girls - was (MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs) Jim English
• MOBPROG and other scripting languages William Murdick
• • MOBPROG and other scripting languages Jason Gauthier
  • MOBPROG and other scripting languages Acius
  • • MOBPROG and other scripting languages J C Lawrence
    • • MOBPROG and other scripting languages Christopher Allen
      • • MOBPROG and other scripting languages J C Lawrence
        • • MOBPROG and other scripting languages Eli Stevens
          • • MOBPROG and other scripting languages J C Lawrence
      • MOBPROG and other scripting languages Lazarus
      • • MOBPROG and other scripting languages Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • MOBPROG and other scripting languages Matt Mihaly
• Two 'Mini-Series' Complete at Skotos Articles... Christopher Allen
• Replacement For MUD Acronym Luke Parrish
• • Replacement For MUD Acronym Skaei@aol.com
  • Replacement For MUD Acronym J C Lawrence
  • Replacement For MUD Acronym Christopher Allen
  • • Replacement For MUD Acronym Matt Mihaly
• No bots allowed Frank Crowell
• • No bots allowed J C Lawrence
  • • No bots allowed Alex Kay
    • • No bots allowed J C Lawrence
    • No bots allowed shren
    • • No bots allowed shren
      • • No bots allowed Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
        • • No bots allowed shren
          • • No bots allowed Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
            • • No bots allowed Travis Casey
              • • No bots allowed Roy Trubshaw
            • No bots allowed Colin Coghill
            • • No bots allowed Marc Hernandez
              • No bots allowed shren
  • No bots allowed Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • No bots allowed Frank Crowell
  • No bots allowed Marc Bowden
  • • No bots allowed Paul Schwanz
• Boys and Girls - rayzam
• Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) Michelle Elbert
• • Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
  • • Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) Michael Tresca
    • Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) Nathan F. Yospe
  • Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) Michael Tresca
  • Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) Alex Kay
• The use of virtual reality in the assessment of spatial skills J C Lawrence
• • The use of virtual reality in the assessment of spatial skills rayzam
• Boys and Girls - rayzam
• • Boys and Girls - Marian Griffith
• Commercial web based MUDs Azeraab
• • Commercial web based MUDs Peter Tyson
  • • Commercial web based MUDs J C Lawrence
    • • Commercial web based MUDs Peter Tyson
  • Commercial web based MUDs Matt Mihaly
• Majestic and Failure of Episodic Games Christopher Allen
• • Majestic and Failure of Episodic Games Dan Hon
  • Majestic and Failure of Episodic Games Matt Mihaly
  • Majestic and Failure of Episodic Games Talies the Wanderer
• [TECH] Eiffel and Assertions... Adam Martin
• • [TECH] Eiffel and Assertions... Brian Hook
• text MUDs' character longevity (The Two Towers) Val Trullinger
• [TECH] PS: Eiffel and Assertions... Adam Martin
• • [TECH] PS: Eiffel and Assertions... Ling Lo
  • [TECH] PS: Eiffel and Assertions... siege
• GDC (was Majestic and Failure of Episodic Games) Sellers, Mike
• Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
• • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Travis Casey
  • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
  • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day volstoff@brutele.be
  • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
    • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Sasha Hart
    • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
      • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day rayzam
        • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
        • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Sasha Hart
        • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
          • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Koster, Raph
            • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
            • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Sasha Hart
            • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
              • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Sasha Hart
                • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
                  • • Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Sasha Hart
• TECH: What about Perl flavored MUDs? James Edward Gray II
• • TECH: What about Perl flavored MUDs? Nicholas E. Walker
  • TECH: What about Perl flavored MUDs? Luke Parrish
  • • TECH: What about Perl flavored MUDs? James Edward Gray II
• MUD statistics Elia Mörling
• • MUD statistics Sanvean
  • • MUD statistics Matt Mihaly
• Secure distributed operation (was: Quake II has gone GPL) Nicholas E. Walker
• Economic Growth: NPC pricing Adam Martin
• • Economic Growth: NPC pricing Jason Murdick
  • Economic Growth: NPC pricing Paul Schwanz
  • • Economic Growth: NPC pricing Timothy Dang
• Crafting in MUDs Neil Edwards
• Econ paper on EQ Koster, Raph
• "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Jeff Freeman
  • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
    • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Michelle Elbert
      • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
        • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Jeff Cole
          • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
            • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Jeff Cole
      • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Freeman, Jeff
      • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Paul Schwanz
        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
          • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Cynbe ru Taren
            • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Travis Casey
            • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Freeman, Jeff
            • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
            • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Travis Casey
        • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Miroslav Silovic
        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Jon Lambert
    • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
  • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
      • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
      • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
      • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Michael Tresca
        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
        • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MU Ds) Koster, Raph
  • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Dave Rickey
      • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Dave Rickey
          • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) John Buehler
      • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
      • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
          • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
            • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
              • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
                • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Tamzen Cannoy
                • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
                  • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
                    • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
                      • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
                        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
                          • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
                            • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
                        • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Miroslav Silovic
                        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
                          • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                            • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
                                On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote:
                                > From: "Matt Mihaly" <the_logos@achaea.com>
                                
                                >> No you don't. It's like claiming that virtual worlds are somehow
                                >> "not real". They are real, because they are part of reality.
                                
                                > No, they're not.
                                
                                > real: Being or occurring in fact or actuality.
                                
                                > virtual: Existing or resulting in essence or effect though not
                                > in actual fact.
                                
                                > A virtual world is "not real" by definition. To claim otherwise is
                                > to commit a fallacy of equivocation.
                                
                                This is difficult to make a short reply to. What epistemelogical and
                                ontological framework are you coming from? Your definition of real
                                seems (and I might be inferring what's not there) to derive from
                                so-called "naive realism" (Oxford's term, not mine) and simple
                                materialism. In other words, everything 'real' is made of matter,
                                and that your perceptions of that matter are direct, and unmediated
                                by awareness of subjective entities, and that in normal conditions,
                                the matter has the properties you perceive it to have.
                                
                                The problems with those viewpoints are legion, and philosophy
                                outgrew them hundreds of years ago. Briefly though, the problem with
                                your definition of real and virtual are, I think, that you seem to
                                assume that 'being' equates to a materalist-style existence. You
                                want to tack on the requirement of perceived spatial relations to
                                existence, but there's no good reason to do that. It's just as valid
                                to say that the number 10 exists as that my computer exists. The
                                computer has what you might call a spatio-temporal existence while
                                the number 10 has a non-spatial, non-temporal existence.
                                
                                W.V. Quine famously said, "To be is to be the value of a variable."
                                That's kind of difficult to understand, but E.J. Lowe paraphrased,
                                saying, "To be accounted amongst the entities recognized as existing
                                by a given theory is to belong to the domain assigned to the
                                variables of quantification of that theory, according to its
                                standard interpretation." Quine also said, "No entity without
                                identity." which is to say that the key feature of being an entity
                                is possessing determinate identity-conditions.
                                
                                I realize that was probably spectacularly unhelpful, but I hope it
                                at least illustrates that the field qualified to speak on the nature
                                of 'real' (philosophy) has thought about this for thousands of
                                years, and has come up with slightly better answers than just "My
                                table is real, a MUD is not."
                                
                                >> Any character you play is part of you, because it is a sub-set of
                                >> you.
                                
                                > You seem to have an awful lot of difficulty understanding the
                                > basic concepts behind roleplaying.
                                
                                > Feregar, one of my characters in a pen and paper campaign, was
                                > afraid of mushrooms. If he saw mushrooms, he would try to avoid
                                > them. If he couldn't, he would panic and insist on destroying them
                                > immediately.
                                
                                > I am not afraid of mushrooms, and I certainly do not panic at the
                                > sight of them. To suggest that Feregar is merely a subset of me is
                                > ludicrous.
                                
                                Well, the character Feregar may not be, but everything you do when
                                you play him is a subset of you. It's not ridiculous. It's inherent
                                in saying "I am roleplaying." If you're the one doing it, then ipso
                                facto, it's you doing it. No one is suggesting you're ACTUALLY
                                afraid of mushrooms or panic at the site of them. I am suggesting
                                that your ability to pretend, and, in fact, the act of pretending,
                                to panic at the thought of them is you just as much as anything else
                                you do.
                                
                                >> Characters don't have emotions. People do. Characters are
                                >> data-sets and/or ideas.
                                
                                > But they are ideas of people. And an idea of a person can have an
                                > idea of an emotion.
                                
                                No, the idea of a person can't have an idea. Dr. Harold Brown wrote
                                an excellent essay on ideas, that is largely accepted as the
                                viewpoint of metaphysicians (who seek the nature of reality) and
                                epistemologists (who look how knowledge is gained). He begins by
                                writing, about ideas:
                                
                                "These are entities that exist only as contents of some
                                mind. Ideas in this sense should be distinguished from Plato's
                                Ideas or Forms, which are non-physical but exist apart from any
                                conscious beings."
                                
                                >> Well, you have a pretty good idea how it feels to impress a human
                                >> wearing a description that says "I am a dragon" at the least.
                                
                                > No, that would be actual experience. He would KNOW how that feels,
                                > because that is exactly what he has really felt.
                                
                                I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the 'that' in "He would KNOW
                                how that feels." If you mean he would know how it feels to impress a
                                human wearing a description saying "I am a dragon." then yes, I'd
                                certainly agree, as that's exactly what he did: impress a human
                                pretending to be a dragon.
                                
                                
                                --matt
                            • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Marian Griffith
                            • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                              • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Dave Rickey
                    • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Jon Lambert
                    • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
                • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Christopher Allen
                • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
                  • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Christopher Allen
                    • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
• Creating a MUD - Overview of design Neil Edwards
• • Creating a MUD - Overview of design Edward Glowacki
  • • Creating a MUD - Overview of design Amanda Walker
    • • Creating a MUD - Overview of design Bruce Mitchener
      • • Creating a MUD - Overview of design J C Lawrence
      • Creating a MUD - Overview of design Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • Creating a MUD - Overview of design Valerio Santinelli
  • • Creating a MUD - Overview of design Shane Gough
    • Creating a MUD - Overview of design Sean Kelly
  • Creating a MUD - Overview of design Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • Creating a MUD - Overview of design Adam Dray
• Some random thoughts on balance Azeraab
• • Some random thoughts on balance Matt Mihaly
• Mud-Dev FAQ part II Marian Griffith
• Worlds of Carnage ( WoC ) blobule@hotmail.com
• • Worlds of Carnage ( WoC ) blobule@hotmail.com
  • • Worlds of Carnage ( WoC ) Blobule@hotmail.com
• Simutronics' premium server Matt Mihaly
• • Simutronics' premium server Christopher Allen
  • Simutronics' premium server Michael Dekker
  • • Simutronics' premium server Matt Mihaly
  • Simutronics' premium server Martin
• Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Brian Hook
• • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Michelle Elbert
  • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Michael Tresca
  • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Freeman, Jeff
  • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Paul Schwanz
  • • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Ling Lo
  • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Travis Nixon
  • • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Brian Hook
    • • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Amanda Walker
      • • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Sasha Hart
      • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" fred@clift.org
      • • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Marc Bowden
  • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Christopher Allen
  • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Matt Mihaly
  • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Skaei@aol.com
  • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Alex Kay
  • Enforced log out aka "real sleep" rayzam
• Boys and Paul Schwanz
• • Boys and Caliban Tiresias Darklock
• Boys and Girls Marc Bowden
• Chess ("Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs)) James Edward Gray II
• • Chess ("Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs)) Cynbe ru Taren
• "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? rayzam
• • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? Travis Casey
  • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? rayzam
    • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? Travis Casey
      • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? rayzam
        • • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? Travis Casey
  • "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? Jon Lambert
• BIZ amusing idea (Enforced log out aka "real sleep") Nicholas E. Walker
• • BIZ amusing idea (Enforced log out aka "real sleep") Valerio Santinelli