January 2002
- Toontown Koster, Raph
- FW: MMORPGs & MUDs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- FW: MMORPGs & MUDs Skaei@aol.com
- DGN: Question about MU* acronyms Randolf Richardson
- DGN: Question about MU* acronyms Lars Duening
- DGN: Question about MU* acronyms J C Lawrence
- DGN: Question about MU* acronyms Frank Crowell
- ADMIN: I goofed J C Lawrence
- Pueblo MUD client info Bruce Mitchener
- Pueblo MUD client info Piotr Banski
- Pueblo MUD client info Bruce Mitchener
- Pueblo MUD client info Mathieu Castelli
- Pueblo MUD client info William B. Taylor
- The MUD Companion Derek Snider
- Game animations Jon Lambert
- Boys and Girls - was (MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs) Joel Palmtag
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Mathieu Castelli
- Quake II has gone GPL Valerio Santinelli
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Vincent Archer
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Andrew Hefford
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL ling@slimy.com
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Bruce Mitchener
- Quake II has gone GPL Brian Hook
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Marc Hernandez
- Quake II has gone GPL Jeremy Noetzelman
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Jeremy Noetzelman
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Valerio Santinelli
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Valerio Santinelli
- Quake II has gone GPL Noplex
- Quake II has gone GPL Jeremy Noetzelman
- Quake II has gone GPL Nicholas E. Walker
- Quake II has gone GPL Eli Stevens
- Quake II has gone GPL Valerio Santinelli
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Dominic J. Eidson
- Quake II has gone GPL J C Lawrence
- Quake II has gone GPL Nicholas E. Walker
- Quake II has gone GPL J C Lawrence
- Quake II has gone GPL Frank Crowell
- Quake II has gone GPL Vincent Archer
- Quake II has gone GPL Travis Nixon
- Quake II has gone GPL Vincent Archer
- Quake II has gone GPL Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Quake II has gone GPL Valerio Santinelli
- Quake II has gone GPL shren
- Quake II has gone GPL Travis Nixon
- Quake II has gone GPL Joshua Judson Rosen
- Quake II has gone GPL shren
- Quake II has gone GPL T o F
- Quake II has gone GPL shren
- Quake II has gone GPL John Buehler
- Quake II has gone GPL Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Quake II has gone GPL John Buehler
- Quake II has gone GPL shren
- Quake II has gone GPL Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Quake II has gone GPL John Buehler
- Quake II has gone GPL shren
- Quake II has gone GPL shren
- Quake II has gone GPL T o F
- Quake II has gone GPL shren
- Quake II has gone GPL Vincent Archer
- Quake II has gone GPL shren
- Quake II has gone GPL Vincent Archer
- Quake II has gone GPL Nathan F. Yospe
- Starting out. Joel Palmtag
- Starting out. Edward Glowacki
- Starting out. ghovs@plex.nl
- Starting out. Joel Palmtag
- Starting out. Lars Duening
- Starting out. J C Lawrence
- TECH: Managing all your code Eric Rhea
- TECH: Managing all your code Lars Duening
- TECH: Managing all your code J C Lawrence
- Boys and Girls - was (MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #1 63 - 25 msgs) Koster, Raph
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages William Murdick
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages Jason Gauthier
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages Acius
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages J C Lawrence
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages Christopher Allen
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages J C Lawrence
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages Eli Stevens
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages J C Lawrence
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages Lazarus
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- MOBPROG and other scripting languages Matt Mihaly
- Two 'Mini-Series' Complete at Skotos Articles... Christopher Allen
- Replacement For MUD Acronym Luke Parrish
- Replacement For MUD Acronym Skaei@aol.com
- Replacement For MUD Acronym J C Lawrence
- Replacement For MUD Acronym Christopher Allen
- Replacement For MUD Acronym Matt Mihaly
- No bots allowed Frank Crowell
- No bots allowed J C Lawrence
- No bots allowed Alex Kay
- No bots allowed J C Lawrence
- No bots allowed shren
- No bots allowed shren
- No bots allowed Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- No bots allowed shren
- No bots allowed Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- No bots allowed Travis Casey
- No bots allowed Roy Trubshaw
- No bots allowed Colin Coghill
- No bots allowed Marc Hernandez
- No bots allowed shren
- No bots allowed Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- No bots allowed Frank Crowell
- No bots allowed Marc Bowden
- No bots allowed Paul Schwanz
- Boys and Girls - rayzam
- Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) Michelle Elbert
- Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
- Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) Michael Tresca
- Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) Nathan F. Yospe
- Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) Michael Tresca
- Issue of the "Experience" (Was MMORPGs & MUDs) Alex Kay
- The use of virtual reality in the assessment of spatial skills J C Lawrence
- Boys and Girls - rayzam
- Boys and Girls - Marian Griffith
- Commercial web based MUDs Azeraab
- Commercial web based MUDs Peter Tyson
- Commercial web based MUDs J C Lawrence
- Commercial web based MUDs Peter Tyson
- Commercial web based MUDs Matt Mihaly
- Majestic and Failure of Episodic Games Christopher Allen
- Majestic and Failure of Episodic Games Dan Hon
- Majestic and Failure of Episodic Games Matt Mihaly
- Majestic and Failure of Episodic Games Talies the Wanderer
- [TECH] Eiffel and Assertions... Adam Martin
- [TECH] Eiffel and Assertions... Brian Hook
- text MUDs' character longevity (The Two Towers) Val Trullinger
- [TECH] PS: Eiffel and Assertions... Adam Martin
- GDC (was Majestic and Failure of Episodic Games) Sellers, Mike
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Travis Casey
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day volstoff@brutele.be
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Sasha Hart
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day rayzam
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Sasha Hart
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Koster, Raph
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Sasha Hart
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Sasha Hart
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day John Buehler
- Finding What a Gamer Lacks in Their Day Sasha Hart
- TECH: What about Perl flavored MUDs? James Edward Gray II
- TECH: What about Perl flavored MUDs? Nicholas E. Walker
- TECH: What about Perl flavored MUDs? Luke Parrish
- TECH: What about Perl flavored MUDs? James Edward Gray II
- MUD statistics Elia Mörling
- MUD statistics Sanvean
- MUD statistics Matt Mihaly
- Secure distributed operation (was: Quake II has gone GPL) Nicholas E. Walker
- Economic Growth: NPC pricing Adam Martin
- Economic Growth: NPC pricing Jason Murdick
- Economic Growth: NPC pricing Paul Schwanz
- Economic Growth: NPC pricing Timothy Dang
- Crafting in MUDs Neil Edwards
- Econ paper on EQ Koster, Raph
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Jeff Freeman
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Michelle Elbert
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Freeman, Jeff
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Paul Schwanz
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Cynbe ru Taren
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Freeman, Jeff
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Miroslav Silovic
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
Matt Mihaly wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Ola Fosheim [iso-8859-1] Grøstad wrote:
>> etc... RPers are quite obviously often more advanced in the way
>> they use the game, because they use the game on multiple levels
>> and in ways which has not been designed for and provide
>> significant enjoyment (or the opposite) for other players as
>> well. Now, the commercial designers treat them as "just a kind of
>> gamer" because they dont constitute a significant population...
> Quite obviously? Clearly it's not obvious or there'd be no
> discussion about it.
Oh come on, mud-dev'ers discuss the obvious all the time. ;>
> I'm not sure why using the game in ways it hasn't been designed
> for is a sign of an advanced gamer. If I take a chess board and
> start throwing the pieces across the room (using it in a way it
> wasn't intended) that hardly makes me an advanced chess player. It
> just makes me a person who enjoys chess in a different way.
Horrible analogy. First of all you would not be a chessplayer at
all. RPGs are marketed as rollplay and a fictional experience, the
first one is pretty much a hamsterwheel where the designers are in
control. All you have to do is follow the path, in excellent
roleplay you become a co-author and still get to do everything that
other players get to do. You do it with a level of sophistication
and you get to do more.
(You seem to assume the chess is an advanced game, which is pretty
much a cultural idea. It actually is a pretty rigid and limited
pattern matching game)
> I see nothing more advanced about roleplay than there is about
> strategic PvP combat and certainly not compared to the political
> game. Certainly the level of practice and skill put into being a
> chessmaster in Achaea is far far greater than is required to
> simply act out a few things, but I wouldn't necessarily label the
> couple of killer chess players in Achaea "more advanced Achaea
> players". I'd just label them "more advanced players of one
> particular part of the game, e.g. the chess part of the game." I'd
> do the same with roleplayers. One person could be a more advanced
> roleplayer than another, but beyond that, I don't think you can
> make a valid comparison.
There is no reason for not doing any of those activities in a
roleacting mentality. Especially political games are very well
suited for roleacting, you get to maximize drama. But no MMO have
any great political game built in, and probably will not have it
either. Because, if you do, you risk getting the entire server
killed off, which seemed to happen on some Meridian server. MMOs
are static by designphilosophy.
You dont really have any sophisticated PvP combat either, it is very
much a simple optimization or twitch thing. And even then, PvP is a
great source for roleacting and roleacting adds another layer to
that experience as well.
> To say that A is more advanced than B is to say that there is a
> continuum using some measurement criteria upon which you advance.
Actually, formally all you need is some kind of ordering involving A
and B. You dont need a continuum.
> I think it is fallacious to say that a basket weaver (a producer)
> is more advanced than I, a consumer of baskets. I do not, in fact,
> see any continuum on which you can measure their relative levels
> of advancement.
Actually, we were talking production of experience. I can agree with
you to some extent, but only because and advanced consumer of
fiction is productive. I.e. she makes an interpretation.
> Likewise, for roleplayers to be automatically considered advanced
> players, there'd have to be some logical continuum to progress
> along. Where is the logical continuum from tactical combat to
> roleplaying? It strikes me (and a lot of others apparently) as
> simply different, fairly unrelated areas of the game. That's why
> we say that they are simply another KIND of gamer. There's no
> logical way to measure tactical combat (or politics or chess or
> whatever) vs. roleplaying, as it's apples and oranges.
You got too hung up on your assumptions about one dimensional
continuum. Now, who is the gourmet: a person that cant be bothered
to taste and smell (or even chew), or one that does and also add
spice and atmosphere to the dinner?
Ola. - "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Michael Tresca
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MU Ds) Koster, Raph
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Dave Rickey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Dave Rickey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) John Buehler
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Tamzen Cannoy
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Miroslav Silovic
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Marian Griffith
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Jon Lambert
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Christopher Allen
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORP Gs & MUDs) Christopher Allen
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design Neil Edwards
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design Edward Glowacki
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design Amanda Walker
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design Bruce Mitchener
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design J C Lawrence
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design Valerio Santinelli
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design Shane Gough
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design Sean Kelly
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Creating a MUD - Overview of design Adam Dray
- Some random thoughts on balance Azeraab
- Some random thoughts on balance Matt Mihaly
- Mud-Dev FAQ part II Marian Griffith
- Worlds of Carnage ( WoC ) blobule@hotmail.com
- Worlds of Carnage ( WoC ) blobule@hotmail.com
- Worlds of Carnage ( WoC ) Blobule@hotmail.com
- Simutronics' premium server Matt Mihaly
- Simutronics' premium server Christopher Allen
- Simutronics' premium server Michael Dekker
- Simutronics' premium server Matt Mihaly
- Simutronics' premium server Martin
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Brian Hook
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Michelle Elbert
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Michael Tresca
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Freeman, Jeff
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Paul Schwanz
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Travis Nixon
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Brian Hook
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Amanda Walker
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Sasha Hart
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" fred@clift.org
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Marc Bowden
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Christopher Allen
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Matt Mihaly
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Skaei@aol.com
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" Alex Kay
- Enforced log out aka "real sleep" rayzam
- Boys and Paul Schwanz
- Boys and Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Boys and Girls Marc Bowden
- Chess ("Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs)) James Edward Gray II
- Chess ("Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs)) Cynbe ru Taren
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? rayzam
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? rayzam
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? rayzam
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? Jon Lambert
- BIZ amusing idea (Enforced log out aka "real sleep") Nicholas E. Walker
- BIZ amusing idea (Enforced log out aka "real sleep") Valerio Santinelli