June 2001
- Distributed mud, testers needed Geir Harald Hansen
- Fwd: FW: The MERA Confrence Dragoness
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Travis Nixon
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Kwon Ekstrom
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Derek Licciardi
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) John Buehler
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Derek Licciardi
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) John Buehler
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Matt Mihaly
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Christopher Kohnert
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Marian Griffith
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Matt Mihaly
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) John Buehler
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Scion Altera
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) John Buehler
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Vincent Archer
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) John Buehler
- Time articles on Lineage Koster, Raph
- Article: Korea, Lineage.. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Article: Korea, Lineage.. Marc Fielding
- [Article] Time Article on Lineage Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- off-line pk msew
- off-line pk Matt Mihaly
- off-line pk Freeman, Jeff
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- off-line pk Matt Mihaly
- off-line pk Matt Chatterley
- off-line pk David Loeser
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- off-line pk Dave Rickey
- off-line pk Phillip Lenhardt
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- off-line pk Phillip Lenhardt
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- off-line pk Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- off-line pk Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- off-line pk Jon Lambert
- off-line pk Willowreed@aol.com
- off-line pk Dave Rickey
- off-line pk Jeremy Noetzelman
- off-line pk Kroh, Clayton
- off-line pk The_Druid
- off-line pk Marc Fielding
- off-line pk Dave Kennerly
- off-line pk Matt Mihaly
- off-line pk David Loeser
- off-line pk Lee Sheldon
- off-line pk Matt Mihaly
- off-line pk Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- Where Does Fantasy End? Ling Lo
- Where Does Fantasy End? Koster, Raph
- IMPORTANT NEW GRAPHICAL MUD Matt Mihaly
- IMPORTANT NEW GRAPHICAL MUD David Loeser
- IMPORTANT NEW GRAPHICAL MUD Edward Glowacki
- Localisation (was: Maintaining fiction.) Vincent Archer
- Buying benefits [was business models] Matt Chatterley
- Buying benefits [was business models] Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits [was business models] Lars Duening
- Buying benefits [was business models] Matt Chatterley
- events per second? KevinL
- Hiding the Numbers/avatar representation rayzam
- Hiding the Numbers/avatar representation Koster, Raph
- Why are we all making RPGs? Andrew Kirmse
- Why are we all making RPGs? Freeman, Jeff
- Why are we all making RPGs? Sellers, Michael
- Why are we all making RPGs? Koster, Raph
- Why are we all making RPGs? Freeman, Jeff
- Why are we all making RPGs? rayzam
- Why are we all making RPGs? Dave Rickey
- Why are we all making RPGs? Trump
- Why are we all making RPGs? Baron, Jonathan
- Why are we all making RPGs? Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Why are we all making RPGs? Lee Sheldon
- Why are we all making RPGs? Neil Brown
- Why are we all making RPGs? Lee Sheldon
- Why are we all making RPGs? Travis Casey
- Why are we all making RPGs? Lee Sheldon
- Why are we all making RPGs? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Why are we all making RPGs? Matt Mihaly
- Why are we all making RPGs? Lee Sheldon
- Why are we all making RPGs? Koster, Raph
- Why are we all making RPGs? SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Why are we all making RPGs? Koster, Raph
- Why are we all making RPGs? Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Why are we all making RPGs? SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Min/maxing rayzam
- Buying benefits Corey Crawford
- Buying benefits Neil Brown
- Buying benefits Corey Crawford
- Buying benefits Kevin Littlejohn
- Buying benefits Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Peter Tyson
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Marian Griffith
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Marian Griffith
- Buying benefits Tess Lowe
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Buying benefits Marian Griffith
- Buying benefits Kevin Littlejohn
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Neil Brown
- Buying benefits Corey Crawford
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Kevin Littlejohn
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Freeman, Jeff
- Buying benefits Vincent Archer
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Peter Tyson
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Peter Tyson
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Peter Tyson
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Vincent Archer
- Buying benefits shren
- Buying benefits Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Buying benefits Mathue Moyer
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Lee Sheldon
- [Biz] Worlds Apart's THE ETERNAL CITY joines the Skotos Community Christopher Allen
- Buying benefits Bruce
- Buying benefits Matt Chatterley
- Buying benefits shren
- Buying benefits Lars Duening
- Definition of permadeath (was: Maintaining fiction) Christopher Kohnert
- Definition of permadeath (was: Maintaining fiction) Madman Across the Water
- Security in MUDs - MMORPGs Adam Martin
- Security in MUDs - MMORPGs Sean Kelly
- Security in MUDs - MMORPGs Adam Martin
- Security in MUDs - MMORPGs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Security in MUDs - MMORPGs Jon Leonard
- Buying benefits Timothy Dang
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers (was Koster, Raph
- [TECH] Abrash's book available online Bruce
- Player control of NPCs Mordengaard
- Player control of NPCs Travis Casey
- Player control of NPCs rayzam
- Player control of NPCs Sanvean
- Player control of NPCs Matt Chatterley
- Player control of NPCs Matt Chatterley
- Korean Govt. joins the revolution. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Korean Govt. joins the revolution. Sean Kelly
- Korean Govt. joins the revolution. Matt Mihaly
- Korean Govt. joins the revolution. Jake Song
- Neverwinter Nights Trent Oster
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Adam Martin
- [TECH] Cplant Bruce
- Summary of PvP attempts? Brian Hook
- Summary of PvP attempts? Koster, Raph
- Summary of PvP attempts? Frank Crowell
- Summary of PvP attempts? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Summary of PvP attempts? Matt Mihaly
- Summary of PvP attempts? Frank Crowell
- Summary of PvP attempts? Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Summary of PvP attempts? Matt Mihaly
- Summary of PvP attempts? Brian Hook
- Summary of PvP attempts? Trump
- Summary of PvP attempts? Brian Hook
- Summary of PvP attempts? Trump
- Summary of PvP attempts? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Summary of PvP attempts? Matt Mihaly
- Summary of PvP attempts? Corey Crawford
- Summary of PvP attempts? Neil Brown
- Summary of PvP attempts? Matt Mihaly
- Summary of PvP attempts? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Summary of PvP attempts? Batir
- Summary of PvP attempts? Vincent Archer
- Summary of PvP attempts? Koster, Raph
- Summary of PvP attempts? Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Summary of PvP attempts? Freeman, Jeff
- Summary of PvP attempts? Brian Hook
- Summary of PvP attempts? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Summary of PvP attempts? Dave Kennerly
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Nights Tamzen Cannoy
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Nights rayzam
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Nights Madrona Tree
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Nights Luc Van den Borre
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Nights Rob Ellis II
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Madrona Tree
- Physical tokens... The stone Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers Lee Sheldon
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers Dave Rickey
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers Lee Sheldon
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- The Sapience Group Matt Mihaly
- Aetolia Matt Mihaly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Sean Kelly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Brian Hook
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Derek Licciardi
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? rayzam
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Sean Kelly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Matt Mihaly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Sean Kelly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Matt Mihaly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Sean Kelly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Matt Mihaly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Travis Nixon
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Malcolm Tester
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s rayzam
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Malcolm Tester
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Derek Snider
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Neil Brown
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Kwon Ekstrom
- Buying benefits Phillip Lenhardt
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Ian Collyer
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Matt Chatterley
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Wes Connell
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Edward Glowacki
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Federico Di Gregorio
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Sean Kelly
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Madman Across the Water
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Corey Crawford
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Adam Martin
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Matt Chatterley
- Focus on Hocus Pocus rayzam
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Matt Chatterley
- Focus on Hocus Pocus rayzam
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Bruce
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Travis Casey
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Trump
- Focus on Hocus Pocus S. Patrick Gallaty
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Adam Martin
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Ian Collyer
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Vincent Archer
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Michael Tresca
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Travis Casey
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Tamzen Cannoy
- Focus on Hocus Pocus David Pemberton
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Peter Tyson
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Hulbert, Leland
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Michael Tresca
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Hulbert, Leland
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Troy Fisher
- Focus on Hocus Pocus J C Lawrence
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Eli Stevens
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Kwon Ekstrom
- Focus on Hocus Pocus azeraab
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Eli Stevens
- Viewpoint and motion sickness Sean K
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience Jon Lambert
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Adam Martin
- On socialization and convenience Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- On socialization and convenience Marian Griffith
- On socialization and convenience Sean Kelly
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On socialization and convenience Peter Tyson
- On socialization and convenience Timothy O'Neill Dang
- On socialization and convenience Dave Rickey
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Brian Hook
- On socialization and convenience Dave Rickey
- On socialization and convenience SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- On socialization and convenience Dave Rickey
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience Vincent Archer
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Travis Nixon
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Vincent Archer
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience shren
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Brian Hook
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Brian Hook
- On socialization and convenience Vincent Archer
- On socialization and convenience Travis Nixon
- On socialization and convenience Sean Kelly
- On socialization and convenience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience John Buehler
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience John Buehler
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience John Buehler
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience rayzam
- On socialization and convenience Michael Tresca
- On socialization and convenience Sean Kelly
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience Vincent Archer
- On socialization and convenience Travis Nixon
- On socialization and convenience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Dave Rickey
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Bruce
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Travis Nixon
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Lee Sheldon
- On socialization and convenience Dave Kennerly
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Ian Collyer
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Ian Collyer
- On socialization and convenience Jay Carlson
- On socialization and convenience Ian Collyer
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Ian Collyer
- On socialization and convenience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- On socialization and convenience Jay Carlson
- On socialization and convenience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- On socialization and convenience Auli
- On socialization and convenience rayzam
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience Michael Tresca
- On socialization and convenience Adam Martin
- On socialization and convenience Michael Tresca
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Paul Sage
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Marian Griffith
- On socialization and convenience rayzam
- On socialization and convenience Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On socialization and convenience Derek Licciardi
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Peter Tyson
- On socialization and convenience Jon Lambert
- On socialization and convenience Michael Tresca
- On socialization and convenience SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Timothy O'Neill Dang
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Alex Kay
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Vincent Archer
- On socialization and convenience shren
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Daniel A. Koepke
- On socialization and convenience Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- On socialization and convenience Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- On socialization and convenience Marian Griffith
- On socialization and convenience Auli
- On socialization and convenience Brian Hook
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience grafx@innovativestudios.com
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- 3rd person text MUDs Colin Coghill
- 3rd person text MUDs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- 3rd person text MUDs Matt Owen
- 3rd person text MUDs Richard A. Bartle
- TEC in PC Gamer Bruce
- Language Parsing for NPCs Aaron Mulder
- Language Parsing for NPCs Robert Zubek
- Language Parsing for NPCs Aaron Mulder
- Language Parsing for NPCs Troy Fisher
- Language Parsing for NPCs Robert Zubek
- Language Parsing for NPCs Robert Zubek
- Language Parsing for NPCs Bruce
- Language Parsing for NPCs Robert Zubek
- Language Parsing for NPCs Sanvean
- PK headaches Matt Mihaly
- PK headaches Ian Hess
- PK headaches Matt Mihaly
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Alex Kay
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Brian Hook
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Dave Rickey
- When the interface becomes the challenge. J C Lawrence
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Travis Nixon
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Lee Sheldon
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Brian Hook
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Ling Lo
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Dave Rickey
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Brian Hook
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Dave Rickey
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Adam Martin
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Travis Nixon
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- When the interface becomes the challenge. J C Lawrence
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Koster, Raph
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Andrew Wilson
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Edward Glowacki
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Andrew Wilson
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Edward Glowacki
- When the interface becomes the challenge. J C Lawrence
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Edward Glowacki
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Matt Owen
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Alex Kay
- NWN and pay for play Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- NWN and pay for play Freeman, Jeff
- Definition of a character (was: Maintaining fiction.) Ian Collyer
- Definition of permadeath (was: Maintaining fiction.) Ian Collyer
- Anyone going to GENCON 2001 Derek Licciardi
- Anyone going to GENCON 2001 J C Lawrence
- Identity Theft and MUDding Anthony R. Haslage
- Identity Theft and MUDding Matt Mihaly
- Identity Theft and MUDding Robert Fleck
- Identity Theft and MUDding Matt Mihaly
- Absolute Death (legalese mode on) shren
- Absolute Death (legalese mode on) Matt Mihaly
- Absolute Death (legalese mode on) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Absolute Death (legalese mode on) Matt Mihaly
- Absolute Death (legalese mode on) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- NWN- Pay for play Trent Oster
- Interpersonal Relationships Ronan Farrell
- Interpersonal Relationships Michael Tresca
- Interpersonal Relationships Ronan Farrell
- Interpersonal Relationships quzah
- Interpersonal Relationships J C Lawrence
- Interpersonal Relationships quzah
- Interpersonal Relationships Marian Griffith
- Interpersonal Relationships Freeman, Jeff
- Interpersonal Relationships Matt Mihaly
- Interpersonal Relationships Marian Griffith
- Interpersonal Relationships Matt Mihaly
- Interpersonal Relationships Ronan Farrell
- [PVP] Another essay on PVP Frank Crowell
- Speech to Text, Eli Stevens
- Speech to Text, John Buehler
- Speech to Text, J C Lawrence
- Speech to Text, Adam Martin
- Speech to Text, Madrona Tree
- Speech to Text, John Buehler
- Speech to Text, Travis Casey
- Speech to Text, Adam Martin
- Website Live Lee Sheldon
- Address change notification Vincent Archer
- Real lawsuit over virtual property Dave Rickey
- UDP vs TCP/IP Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- UDP vs TCP/IP J C Lawrence
- UDP vs TCP/IP Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- UDP vs TCP/IP J C Lawrence
- UDP vs TCP/IP Andrew Kirmse
- UDP vs TCP/IP J C Lawrence
- UDP vs TCP/IP J C Lawrence
- UDP vs TCP/IP Jon Lambert
- UDP vs TCP/IP Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- UDP vs TCP/IP Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- UDP vs TCP/IP Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Permadeath definition thread J C Lawrence
- List rituals Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- List rituals Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- List Rituals John Robert Arras
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals Travis Casey
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- List rituals Marian Griffith
On Wed 27 Jun, J C Lawrence wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:38:41 +0200
> Ola Fosheim <=?iso-8859-1?Q?Grøstad?= <olag@ifi.uio.no>> wrote:
>> J C Lawrence wrote:
Lots of things in this post that are thought provocing so I will try
to contribute :)
>> Users are no longer allowed to be co-owners (which the LP/MOO
>> communities encouraged), so they co-develop their own structures
>> that engulf the game instead.
> Which, outside of the lack of control in regard to presentation
> and perception, marketing depts tend to love.
I am also not sure if this is universal, nor if this is going to
last E.g. furcadia depends heavily on player contributed content and
sooner or later the big games are going to realise that players are
willing to spend considerable amounts of money for lasting
contributions to the game. Already for many players the reputation
is of more importance than the capabilities of their character
(though on the big games the two are still too often entwined). It
takes no genius to predict that for main stream games capability
must matter less than reputation and content. Virtual property
instead of virtual testosterone, so to speak.
>> The net result may be that designers are no longer able to see
>> the mechanisms behind strategic game play. Neat. :)
> Quite. It encourages attempting detente.
And has already in at least one case, lead to the game owners coming
down rather heavy handed on player generated content entirely
outside the actual game. We can also expect that, as cooperation
and external strategy becomes increasingly important, this
considerably heightens the barrier for new players. For games that
rely heavily on large numbers of players entering and leaving
(churn-rate I belief the term is?) this is *not* a good development.
Of course I may also entirely misunderstand what you are trying to
say here, as will happen often in this post, I have no doubt :)
>> (Doesn't matter all that much to the MMPORPG model, because it
>> does not support strategic or creative game play to any
>> reasonably interesting degree... They are more like TV. :-(( )
Can we at least on this list sink the mmporpg term and refer to the
things as muds? The acronym is silly, and not particularly
meaningful (not to mention a bitch to pronounce)
> This will change and is slowly doing so. There are learning and
> development curves to master first. The biggest problem is
> building the basic vocabulary for the control and manipulation
> concepts in the player base. On the first hand its a problem in
> invention (we really haven't figured out the area yet) and on the
> other hand the player base aren't educated into that vocabulary.
An interesting illustration of this is the observation made by Raph
Koster about six or so months ago, that we have no way to *critique*
muds. We can review them informally, but there is no way to actually
describe them. It is even difficult to explain what makes two muds
different in terms that everybody can (learn to) understand. E.g.
Just what is the difference between Ultima Online and Everquest or
Asheron's Call and Pernmush? We all have our ideas, but we can not
put them on paper and discuss them, let alone study if any
particular mud has a good or lesser implementation of certain
aspects.
> That's where we are now: still trying to invent the base language,
> still working just the other side of, "Ugg!" let alone any larger
> expressions like, "Me hungry!" We really don't have a basic
> interface vocabulary set yet for MUDs, let alone strategic MUDs.
But then how many muds have been set up with strategic play in mind?
Do you expect to need more than one hand to count them? For an
understanding (and a vocaulary) you may have to look for other
fields like military and economic theories. Or even at first person
games like quake (or whatever the current top of the crop in that
market is). Those are games that have been set up to be played by
groups against groups. You could learn a lot about how players
perceive, and discuss those games between themselves.
>>> Historically this has been split into the PK good/bad threads,
>>> the how-to-implement-PK threads, and the how-to-control-PK
>>> threads. We've not had them as incestuously knit before.
>>> There's been some integration work to going on there. Not as
>>> much as I'd like, but enough to nod at.
Considering the amount of 'laws' that are directly or indirectly re-
lated to t he PK subject there has been a lot of thinking on this.
For a while there has been a certain amount of tiredness surrounding
the subject which had more to do, I think, with the way how it tend-
ed to devolve into a pro/con debate. The point is that there are a
lot of fundamental sociological problems surrounding the concept of
PK that keep cropping up because they have never been dealt with. Or
at least not properly. Given the background of the majority of the
active writers on this list that is not surprising.
>> Not really sure where you see this integration (not even sure if
>> that would be good). I don't see anything new :). If you are
>> talking about "how to give players the maximum ability to evolve
>> the world and the culture" then maybe. Old topic, but a good
>> one, if one points in new directions and manage to avoid "that
>> will never work" thinking.
The big problem is that several key issues that underly PK are not
well understood yet. This makes that other writers on this list are
likely to point out what they perceive as fundamental problems, and
this keeps back discussion. It is a bit like my experience with the
math classes at school. While the teacher was explaining how to sol-
ve a particular problem, I was still trying to figure out what all
those numbers and letters in the problem statement meant. There was
a vast gap in understanding that made communication difficult. (Yes
with vast amounts of patience from the side of teacher, friends and
familiy I managed to, barely, pass those math classes eventually)
Many of the PK discussions are similar to that experience. Somebody
wants to discuss specific aspects of it, while others are trying to
work out the why's rather than the how's. When those two questions
mix the end result is unlikely to be productive for either.
> Previous discussions have generally been basic; dedicated to first
> principles and scoping the field. More recently we've started
> identifying class concepts like "grief players" and are starting
> to attempt to build models around general behaviour definitions
> and then building models from there. That's a level of
> abstraction and general algebra that the Black Rose papers never
> dreamt of.
Actually I think the concept of "grief player" as it is being devel-
oped on this list is a good contribution. It separates activity from
intent, and that will in the long run, help clarify this subject.
>>> There's raw meat still left in scoping and defining the basic
>>> structures of MUDs in terms of player goal determination,
>>> acquisition scales and approaches, player value perception, ROI
>>> etc etc etc yada yada. We've not really backed out much to try
>>> and look at a meta level beyond a few dismissive hook and cherry
>>> models of advancement scales.
There has been a discussion recently that I let pass by without pay-
ing much attention about attempting to define when a character was
truly dead, and following that about what actually defined a char-
acter. After a lot of arguments about how names, property and even
experiences could easily be transfered from one characte r to the
next, I began to wonder why the need to precisely pinpoint such a
concept as character and character death. That was also the point I
stopped following that particular discussion. I tell this because at
least some of what you seem to be asking here leaves me wondering
the same question, why is it important to exactly define it? Other
than that, there have been a fair number of discussions about alter-
natives to levels and advancement models for muds. I have no doubt
that if the topic is brought up again it will be discussed.
>> Yes, but I'd like to question whether players actually have or
>> need to have distinct goals.
> This seems largely irrelevant. Walks like a duck et al. If a
> player behaves in a manner which is consistent with him having one
> or more goals, then you may as presume he does. And IRL many/most
> clearly express that they do have goals and what they think they
> are.
I do not think it is irrelevant, nor that the duck analogy is right.
While it is true that each player sets a goal for herself, that does
not mean it must have anything to do with the game. I have played at
traditional muds for a long time without caring about the official
goal of such games. I have worked for such diverse goals as trying
to visit a particular location, finding myself a matching outfit,
meeting friends to talk to, and trying to keep my friends alive in a
fight against nasty monsters. None of these were goals that the game
set, but they were valid goals for me, so I would argue that there
is room to discuss the validity of goals within a game.
>> Thus, you might want to somehow formalise "asynchronous" teams,
>> but that is somewhat meaningless in a world with a strong
>> real-time focus.
> Ooo! Neat. I hadn't really thought about disconnected
> cooperative player systems for MUDs. Neat. There's fun stuff in
> there.
I have to admit the two of you have completely lost me here. Point
is that I probably do not want to know ;)
>>> Are ___ANY___ topics or threads on MUD-Dev ever really
>>> conclusive? And, in fact sre any of the topics usually
>>> discussed capable of being conclusively answered?
Rarely, but then this is a debating group rather than some form of
research. People put forward arguments and listen to what others say
about a particular topic, until there seems nothing new to be left
to say. At that point the discussion fades away, but no conclusion
is ever reached, because there generally is no point being argued we
can reach a conclusion about. Some people may adjust their own ideas
on what they heard. Summaries of discussions would be a good way to
formulate conclusions, however partial, but unfortunately the list
has grown too big to do something like that anymore, if only for the
sheer amount of posts you have to wade through.
> While not claiming to be posting such, its one of the reasons I
> leave short-range logical inconsistencies and unresolved areas in
> my posts. It allows and encourages the reader to respond to fill
> in the blanks, to fix and correct. Its not a great technique as
> the definition of "short range" is subjective to the reader and
> the list covers a wide range of such. It also ignores the
> reputation/peerage problem yada yada and others.
I think the list has grown large enough that the reputation of cer-
tain members is no longer a real problem. It scared me when at one
time somebody added my name to the list of people who influenced the
list, but I think I am safe of that now :). I can not see how you
can avoid that people who post frequently are shaping the discussion
and the tone of the list more than those like me who post rarely.
One way to get out of the situation of inconclusive and fragmented
discussions, is to moderate more heavily. Not neccesarily by you but
perhaps by the person(s) starting a new subject. That however requi-
res a lot of time and effort, and will have consequences for the
list that may be undesirable for other reasons as well.
>> It is the bad arguments and the most opinionated topics that get
>> the most attention, because they are easy to attack (and of
>> course the most profiled members)... :(
> This can hardly be a surprise. Evolution rarely proceeds by great
> leaps into new territory. Most activity is wobbly work in the
> internices of the current edge.
It is also a consequence of the nature of a list like this.
>> So where are you going to obtain that fertilizer you like so
>> much?
> Does the list suffers from a lack of fertiliser? Are there signs
> of a diminishing supply?
Not a diminishing reply but a large influx of new members means that
some topics that have been discussed extensively before will crop up
again, because they are new to a lot of people here. You could argue
that this is what the FAQ is for, but then we are back to the issue
of summaries, and the difficulty of creating them.
>> Unless you are actively recruiting "radical" thinkers you will
>> have problems establishing a group that is breaking free from
>> "what exists".
> Yup. This has been one of the problems with my inactivity: we now
> have a more heavily normed population which has settled in enough
> to start attempting defence of that normality.
I think this is inevitable, no matter how hard you try to prevent it
>>> Is the field deterministic?
>> I think a group like MUD-_DEV_ could learn a lot from discussing
>> minimal MUD-concepts. That is, not to discuss subsystems or
>> social/commercial issues, but develop distinctly different
>> hypothetical and radical full designs. The question is if there
>> is enough radical/creative momentum on the list.
> The list has done that, and can do it again. It merely needs
> someone to lead the discussion.
Radical is not so much the issue here, but getting enough people to
agree on something to get it working is. I would expect that creat-
ing a mud is a lot of work, and getting something radical to a stage
where it can be tested even more so. I think that was the problem
with dev-mud?
> Currently it is EQ. It used to be UO. Arguably that change was
> lead and anchored by Raph as a vocal and articulate, umm,
> pontificator.
*grin* I think he was a bit embarassed by it, and I recall him try-
ing to point at other muds and other principles on many occasions.
Of course he was a high profile member, and Ultima was in many ways
a 'first' as people perceived it.
>> I think a fork would be good. I see way too many interesting
>> postings that dies.
> We're in an uncomfortable position right now. My sense is that
> the we're approaching an inflection point. I hope/trust that the
> graph on the other side of the point goes exponentially up versus
> down.
Yikes, does it have to be exponentially. I mean that is really fast
is it not? Traffic is considerable as it is (in bursts anyway). I do
not see the list falling off though
> I've long wished to grab a team out of the list and build
> something I think would actually be interesting. Perhaps after I
> win the lottery.
*grin* I suppose it is impolite to ask who you would select? Sorry
;)
[snipping the final comments on PK and the sociological and
psychologial argmuents, mainly because I had little to add to it :]
Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...
Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
- List rituals yospe@kanga.nu
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals yospe@kanga.nu
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay rayzam
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Ashen Temper
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay J C Lawrence
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Matt Mihaly
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Trump
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay holding99@mindspring.com
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay John Buehler
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay J C Lawrence
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay holding99@mindspring.com
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Travis Casey
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay John Buehler
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Michael Tresca
- When is the game a game? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- When is the game a game? Travis Casey
- When is the game a game? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- When is the game a game? Travis Casey
- When is the game a game? Phillip Lenhardt
- When is the game a game? Matt Mihaly
- When is the game a game? J C Lawrence
- When is the game a game? F. Randall Farmer
- Definition of a character II, permadeath and "who's running this show anyway?" Ian Collyer
- TECH: ColdStore and MUDs ryan daum
- TECH: ColdStore and MUDs Phillip Lenhardt
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Travis Nixon
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Brian Hook
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Brian Hook
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Travis Nixon
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Phillip Lenhardt
- Magic system that can do anything Eli Stevens
- Magic system that can do anything matt hellige
- Magic system that can do anything John Buehler
- Player Goals rayzam
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Delphine T. Lynx
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Matt Mihaly
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Federico Di Gregorio
- Value in the Economy of the MOG J C Lawrence
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Federico Di Gregorio
- Value in the Economy of the MOG J C Lawrence
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Dave Rickey
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Derek Licciardi
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Dave Rickey
- Value in the Economy of the MOG J C Lawrence
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Michael Tresca
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Ashen Temper
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Marian Griffith
- Value in the Economy of the MOG J C Lawrence
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Ashen Temper
- Re[4]: List rituals Travis Casey
- Re[4]: List rituals J C Lawrence
- Re[4]: List rituals Travis Casey
- Re[4]: List rituals Travis Nixon
- Player run systems (was Player run reputation system) John Hopson
- Player run systems (was Player run reputation system) J Todd Coleman
- Player run systems (was Player run reputation system) J C Lawrence
- Player run systems (was Player run reputation system) David Bennett