June 2001
- Distributed mud, testers needed Geir Harald Hansen
- Fwd: FW: The MERA Confrence Dragoness
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Travis Nixon
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Kwon Ekstrom
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Derek Licciardi
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) John Buehler
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Derek Licciardi
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) John Buehler
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Matt Mihaly
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Christopher Kohnert
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Marian Griffith
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Matt Mihaly
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) John Buehler
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Scion Altera
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) John Buehler
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Vincent Archer
- Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) John Buehler
- Time articles on Lineage Koster, Raph
- Article: Korea, Lineage.. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Article: Korea, Lineage.. Marc Fielding
- [Article] Time Article on Lineage Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- off-line pk msew
- off-line pk Matt Mihaly
- off-line pk Freeman, Jeff
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- off-line pk Matt Mihaly
- off-line pk Matt Chatterley
- off-line pk David Loeser
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- off-line pk Dave Rickey
- off-line pk Phillip Lenhardt
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- off-line pk Phillip Lenhardt
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- off-line pk Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- off-line pk Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- off-line pk Jon Lambert
- off-line pk Willowreed@aol.com
- off-line pk Dave Rickey
- off-line pk Jeremy Noetzelman
- off-line pk Kroh, Clayton
- off-line pk The_Druid
- off-line pk Marc Fielding
- off-line pk Dave Kennerly
- off-line pk Matt Mihaly
- off-line pk David Loeser
- off-line pk Lee Sheldon
- off-line pk Matt Mihaly
- off-line pk Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- off-line pk Koster, Raph
- Where Does Fantasy End? Ling Lo
- Where Does Fantasy End? Koster, Raph
- IMPORTANT NEW GRAPHICAL MUD Matt Mihaly
- IMPORTANT NEW GRAPHICAL MUD David Loeser
- IMPORTANT NEW GRAPHICAL MUD Edward Glowacki
- Localisation (was: Maintaining fiction.) Vincent Archer
- Buying benefits [was business models] Matt Chatterley
- Buying benefits [was business models] Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits [was business models] Lars Duening
- Buying benefits [was business models] Matt Chatterley
- events per second? KevinL
- Hiding the Numbers/avatar representation rayzam
- Hiding the Numbers/avatar representation Koster, Raph
- Why are we all making RPGs? Andrew Kirmse
- Why are we all making RPGs? Freeman, Jeff
- Why are we all making RPGs? Sellers, Michael
- Why are we all making RPGs? Koster, Raph
- Why are we all making RPGs? Freeman, Jeff
- Why are we all making RPGs? rayzam
- Why are we all making RPGs? Dave Rickey
- Why are we all making RPGs? Trump
- Why are we all making RPGs? Baron, Jonathan
- Why are we all making RPGs? Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Why are we all making RPGs? Lee Sheldon
- Why are we all making RPGs? Neil Brown
- Why are we all making RPGs? Lee Sheldon
- Why are we all making RPGs? Travis Casey
- Why are we all making RPGs? Lee Sheldon
- Why are we all making RPGs? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Why are we all making RPGs? Matt Mihaly
- Why are we all making RPGs? Lee Sheldon
- Why are we all making RPGs? Koster, Raph
- Why are we all making RPGs? SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Why are we all making RPGs? Koster, Raph
- Why are we all making RPGs? Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Why are we all making RPGs? SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Min/maxing rayzam
- Buying benefits Corey Crawford
- Buying benefits Neil Brown
- Buying benefits Corey Crawford
- Buying benefits Kevin Littlejohn
- Buying benefits Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Peter Tyson
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Marian Griffith
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Marian Griffith
- Buying benefits Tess Lowe
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Buying benefits Marian Griffith
- Buying benefits Kevin Littlejohn
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Neil Brown
- Buying benefits Corey Crawford
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Kevin Littlejohn
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Freeman, Jeff
- Buying benefits Vincent Archer
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Peter Tyson
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Peter Tyson
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Peter Tyson
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Vincent Archer
- Buying benefits shren
- Buying benefits Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Buying benefits Mathue Moyer
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Lee Sheldon
- [Biz] Worlds Apart's THE ETERNAL CITY joines the Skotos Community Christopher Allen
- Buying benefits Bruce
- Buying benefits Matt Chatterley
- Buying benefits shren
- Buying benefits Lars Duening
- Definition of permadeath (was: Maintaining fiction) Christopher Kohnert
- Definition of permadeath (was: Maintaining fiction) Madman Across the Water
- Security in MUDs - MMORPGs Adam Martin
- Security in MUDs - MMORPGs Sean Kelly
- Security in MUDs - MMORPGs Adam Martin
- Security in MUDs - MMORPGs Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Security in MUDs - MMORPGs Jon Leonard
- Buying benefits Timothy Dang
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers (was Koster, Raph
- [TECH] Abrash's book available online Bruce
- Player control of NPCs Mordengaard
- Player control of NPCs Travis Casey
- Player control of NPCs rayzam
- Player control of NPCs Sanvean
- Player control of NPCs Matt Chatterley
- Player control of NPCs Matt Chatterley
- Korean Govt. joins the revolution. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Korean Govt. joins the revolution. Sean Kelly
- Korean Govt. joins the revolution. Matt Mihaly
- Korean Govt. joins the revolution. Jake Song
- Neverwinter Nights Trent Oster
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers (was Maintaining fiction.) Adam Martin
- [TECH] Cplant Bruce
- Summary of PvP attempts? Brian Hook
- Summary of PvP attempts? Koster, Raph
- Summary of PvP attempts? Frank Crowell
- Summary of PvP attempts? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Summary of PvP attempts? Matt Mihaly
- Summary of PvP attempts? Frank Crowell
- Summary of PvP attempts? Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Summary of PvP attempts? Matt Mihaly
- Summary of PvP attempts? Brian Hook
- Summary of PvP attempts? Trump
- Summary of PvP attempts? Brian Hook
- Summary of PvP attempts? Trump
- Summary of PvP attempts? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Summary of PvP attempts? Matt Mihaly
- Summary of PvP attempts? Corey Crawford
- Summary of PvP attempts? Neil Brown
- Summary of PvP attempts? Matt Mihaly
- Summary of PvP attempts? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Summary of PvP attempts? Batir
- Summary of PvP attempts? Vincent Archer
- Summary of PvP attempts? Koster, Raph
- Summary of PvP attempts? Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Summary of PvP attempts? Freeman, Jeff
- Summary of PvP attempts? Brian Hook
- Summary of PvP attempts? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Summary of PvP attempts? Dave Kennerly
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Nights Tamzen Cannoy
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Nights rayzam
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Nights Madrona Tree
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Nights Luc Van den Borre
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Nights Rob Ellis II
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Madrona Tree
- Physical tokens... The stone Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers Lee Sheldon
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers Dave Rickey
- The Permadeath of PvP (was Hiding the Numbers Lee Sheldon
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- The Sapience Group Matt Mihaly
- Aetolia Matt Mihaly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Sean Kelly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Brian Hook
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Derek Licciardi
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? rayzam
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Sean Kelly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Matt Mihaly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Sean Kelly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Matt Mihaly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Sean Kelly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Matt Mihaly
- Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction? Travis Nixon
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Malcolm Tester
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s rayzam
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Malcolm Tester
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Derek Snider
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Neil Brown
- Viewpoint and motion sickness was:Neverwinter Night s Kwon Ekstrom
- Buying benefits Phillip Lenhardt
- Buying benefits Matt Mihaly
- Buying benefits Ian Collyer
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Matt Chatterley
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Wes Connell
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Edward Glowacki
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Federico Di Gregorio
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Sean Kelly
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Madman Across the Water
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Corey Crawford
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Adam Martin
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Matt Chatterley
- Focus on Hocus Pocus rayzam
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Matt Chatterley
- Focus on Hocus Pocus rayzam
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Bruce
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Travis Casey
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Trump
- Focus on Hocus Pocus S. Patrick Gallaty
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Adam Martin
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Ian Collyer
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Vincent Archer
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Michael Tresca
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Travis Casey
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Tamzen Cannoy
- Focus on Hocus Pocus David Pemberton
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Peter Tyson
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Hulbert, Leland
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Michael Tresca
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Hulbert, Leland
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Troy Fisher
- Focus on Hocus Pocus J C Lawrence
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Eli Stevens
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Kwon Ekstrom
- Focus on Hocus Pocus azeraab
- Focus on Hocus Pocus Eli Stevens
- Viewpoint and motion sickness Sean K
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience Jon Lambert
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Adam Martin
- On socialization and convenience Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- On socialization and convenience Marian Griffith
- On socialization and convenience Sean Kelly
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On socialization and convenience Peter Tyson
- On socialization and convenience Timothy O'Neill Dang
- On socialization and convenience Dave Rickey
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Brian Hook
- On socialization and convenience Dave Rickey
- On socialization and convenience SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- On socialization and convenience Dave Rickey
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience Vincent Archer
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Travis Nixon
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Vincent Archer
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience shren
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Brian Hook
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Brian Hook
- On socialization and convenience Vincent Archer
- On socialization and convenience Travis Nixon
- On socialization and convenience Sean Kelly
- On socialization and convenience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience John Buehler
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience John Buehler
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience John Buehler
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience rayzam
- On socialization and convenience Michael Tresca
- On socialization and convenience Sean Kelly
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience Vincent Archer
- On socialization and convenience Travis Nixon
- On socialization and convenience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Dave Rickey
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Bruce
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Travis Nixon
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Lee Sheldon
- On socialization and convenience Dave Kennerly
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Ian Collyer
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Ian Collyer
- On socialization and convenience Jay Carlson
- On socialization and convenience Ian Collyer
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Ian Collyer
- On socialization and convenience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- On socialization and convenience Jay Carlson
- On socialization and convenience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- On socialization and convenience Auli
- On socialization and convenience rayzam
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience Michael Tresca
- On socialization and convenience Adam Martin
- On socialization and convenience Michael Tresca
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Paul Sage
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Marian Griffith
- On socialization and convenience rayzam
- On socialization and convenience Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On socialization and convenience Derek Licciardi
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Peter Tyson
- On socialization and convenience Jon Lambert
- On socialization and convenience Michael Tresca
- On socialization and convenience SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Timothy O'Neill Dang
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Alex Kay
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience Vincent Archer
- On socialization and convenience shren
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:05:35 +0100
Daniel Harman <Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com> wrote:
>> From: SavantKnowsAll@cs.com [mailto:SavantKnowsAll@cs.com]
>> Are they though? Rather than pre-designed "safe spots" -- Isn't
>> there more thrill in heading to town to get that group together?
>> Or what about hunting in an area together, and shouting out,
>> "Hey, you guys wanna group and try out [insert slightly more
>> difficult area with better treasure]?"
> That would depend entirely on the distances involved (time
> really), and the likelihood of finding the area at full capacity
> upon arrival.
There's a more interesting implicit assumption in here:
The world is repeatable. One can return to an area or location
and it will be much the same as it was the last time you were
there. Sure, details might be slightly different, an NPC
might pop with slightly different stats and/or in a slightly
different location, but in essence, it will be the same.
Should we really be encouraging that assumption? Do we really want
to train users to automatically expect and then later demand that
this be true?
The usual assumption is that we can't create content as fast as the
punters will consume it and that repeatability is therefore cheap
and leveragable. Is that necessarily true?
The driving reason for repeatability is so that players have (to
them) reasonable levels of predictability in the game world. They
don't want to walk into a newbie area and be suddenly confronted by
Tiamat. They want to have a sense that they know what sorts of
things will happen at any instant, that they have an idea what the
risks are, and that they have a reasonable ability to be prepared
and capable should that happen. Players need to be introduced to
the world and its patterns, and that requires repetition as a basic
means of human practice and learning. So we have static pops,
canned zones, newbie areas, and talking swords. This scales into
the normal scenario of knowing that there will be an XXX somewhere
in zone YYY which will likely have some cool EQ, possibly a ZZZ.
Problem is, change is bad. Problem is no change is even worse.
A side effect of this is static maps. They provide a basic sense of
orientation for players. They may not know what's going on or
really how to effectively play a given area, but they sure as heck
know that they are in XXX area and can valuably talk to others on
that basis.
"Hey guys! I'm lost somewhere in Astoria!"
Carry this progression to its logical conclusion and we have a game
that is merely awaiting a sufficiently flexible macro to be
compleatly automated.
Paugh!
What happens if we drop both those models? If we loose both the
concepts of static/canned maps and pre-defined area qualities
(newbie area, level N area, tough area, area with tough NPC, area
with EQ carrying NPC, area with good training NPCs, area with NPCs
that can be turned into pets, etc).
Perhaps the easiest way is by making the player populations
inherently nomadic. Everything moves. Perhaps players live in tent
cities and the cities are forced to move regularly by other game
conditions.
Want a model? Its a water world. Everybody lives on rafts/ships.
They sail about. Lotsa game mechanic problems with that route
tho. Not insolvable, just messy for a scenario.
Or the Bedoin, Plains Indians, Mongols, early persians, <whatever>.
To save on content generation costs and balancing we set it up so
that they live in tent cities tend to move along pre-defined
paths, and that along those paths are thematic areas as above.
Problem is it doesn't really change anything. We're moving the
players about and not changing anything else. We're only changing
vantage, not underlieing structure.
Can we make the world generally non-repeatable without destroying
player confidence?
We want to change things, often, but not so much that players feel
utterly disoriented or uninvested. This is afterall their world.
If it really is theirs we shouldn't keep reminding them that we can
take it away from them (even if we can).
A common attack on repeatability is to implement various levels of
non-player ecologies and then rely on semi-autonomous/adaptive
systems to create interesting results around the players.
Raph hit this with the early UO series and the observation that
players didn't like it, or abused the system to the point that the
ecology died (no deer left to breed). A Tragedy of the Commons
scenario.
This approach has the advantage that the specific instantiation of
an area can be dynamic, but the base map and thus gross physical
predictability remains constant. Further, different areas have base
levels of <resource> and will thus tend to be populated with <type>
qualities for players. This gives predictability for player types.
Translation: We haven't actually changed anything, we've just
muddied it about a bit. We still have canned areas. Its just
that there's some randomity in the exact state at any instant.
So what if we turn the tables and change the ecology to where it is
no longer subject to or a target of the players, but is an implicit
fact that the players are necessarily invested in, in a manner
consistent with normal play patterns. We then keep the base
assignments (difficulty etc) within the areas the same, but change
the player value of the area per a greater and game-wide dynamism.
No cow herding. No corn farming. No long days spent digging rock
hoping to find a shiny stone (and not finding it). If players
want to be heroes and champions, can that be wed into an ecology
which removes constancy from the world without also killing player
ability to predict basic patterns and to learn by repetition?
We're doing this already and not even noticing. I'll leave figuring
out where and how as an exercise for the reader.
Challenge: Build an ecology that directly invests and involves the
players. Its not targeted at the players. The players are not
oppositional or consumers of the ecology, but are rather
fundamental components of tjat are inherently manipulate that
ecology through playing in the way they would normally play
already.
ie: Don't fight them. Just have them do more of that they are doing
already.
Which of course assumes an ecological attack.
Some musings:
Emil's various sided games are well known. The Darkies and the
Whities are endemically opposed. NPCs are largely irrelevant, but
the world is repeatable to the extent that, well, the Darkies are
always _there_, and the Whities are always *there*, they both always
start in their respective same places, and the war is perpetual.
the only thing that varies are the borders and the possessions
(stones/jewels) on each side.
Except the jewels are owned by individuals.
Could we change that usefully?
Tresca recently raised the example of Ivory Tower with its three
cities. Consider that morphed in pure GoPish terms so that world is
now variable. As landscape is expensive to gen (and distribute to
players) we'll leave that mostly alone (thus we have that level of
predictability and training./repeatability left for them). What
we'll change is the political landscape and the level of extensive
predict players can have on what they'll individually encounter on a
given landscape.
You have a world. There are N sides. Each side has their
starting base which is more or less unassailably theirs.
Why unassailable? It simplifies later mechanics and discussion.
They don't need to be, and could easily be changed not to be.
For ease of reference I'll assume a three sided game and refer to
the two sides not mine as Darkies and Whities.
The game at a significant level is all about territory control.
Each side struggles to conquer, hold, and defend its territory
from the other sides. The ability of the players on any one side
is proportional (not necessarily simply or linearly) to the
quantity of territory held by their side.
This is of course a standard positive feedback loop which will
result in one side starting to win and then rapidly running away
with the prize. We'll balance that out later.
Literally the idea is that each player on a given side would benefit
or suffer, instantly, should their side conquer or lose a given land
mass. Immediate feedback. Significance of social networks and
feedback loops that encourage and build social evaluation.
Bubba is an arse. If he hadn't XXX we wouldn't have lost the
Eastern Mountains. Twit.
Boffo is great. He did YYY and got us the lower river reaches.
He rocks.
Now to make it interesting and to devalue the positive feedback
loops.
Make the benefits also proportional to the type of territory
controlled. Different territories have different values, and are
therefore variously attractive.
Fairly simple, but still in the more-is-better monty-haul vein which
encourages linear progression, static inflation via hording,
run-away progressions.
Say the <good_thing> of the players on a given side is controlled
by the territory they own as a side. This is not a simple
equation of more is always better, but a question of types of
territory and of conflicting territory types. The players don't
only want new territory, they want new territory that benefits
them.
Some territory also hurts them. So they also want to get rid of
some bits now and then as their needs develop. Ocassionally
they'll desperately want to offload some bit of territory.
Sometimes the problem will be finding a sucker to take it.
We've now introduced resource allocation and balance. We've still
got positive feedback loops, they're just tougher to balance but
remain prone to canned experimentally determined solutions. Urk.
Let's model:
The world is coloured. Depending on the colour of what you own
you get different benefits. Problem is, some colours don't get
along. The other problem is that the land changes colour fairly
regularly (and predictably). Assume crayola colours. Method of
representation and presentation is up to you (perhaps a magic
stone flashes appropriately when consulted).
Its going to require intelligence and dynamic calculation of the
area quality changes to both balance this out and attempt to flatten
the feedback loops. Computing game balance is now also a bitch.
<sigh>
Note: We don't want to kill the possibility of winning or to
create endless detente, we just want to prevent run-away trains
where it is obvious to all sides that one side is unstoppable.
You have to work for your beans.
Players are now invested in the complexity and the fact of the
changes of colour. It is important to them. If they manage their
side's territories they can do more as players. Territory feeds
their own personal BFGs, and that investment also results in their
side winning more.
The fact that state changes over time forces active and continual
evaluation. More specifically, they have to make decisions, and
they have to cooperate on those decisions.
"Yeah, I could annex and conquer this Green Land, but that would
nuke our Blue Advantage and I'll be easy pickings for the next
Whitie that walked this way. Then again this Blue stuff will be
going Orange soon and that will boost our regen rates through the
roof for a little while. Pain now, gain later? Could we hold it
long enough to benefit?"
But the challenges are too big for individuals, and the same game
data is usually available to their opponents, who are also in a
position to make the same calculations for their side, and against
their opponents.
"Damn, the Darkies just took all our Western Territories. We're
out of Green land. No food! Our best way back is to try and rip
off the swamps from the Whities. They're kinda weak over there,
and by the time we do that the Swamps should starting to turn
Brown giving us kick ass speed. That will help us push the
Darkies out of the Deep Mines. The Hidden Fastness is losing its
Brown so the Whities are about to be getting slow... I can't do
that alone tho, I'll need help. Let's see who I can rustle up."
"Hot damn! The Darkies are really going to want the Ember
Forests! They're starting to turn Violet. Wonder if I should
help the Whities stop them instead?"
We've just built a stategist and general class, a value for campaign
leaders, and for the differentiation between tacticians and
stategists. We've also build a physical base for effective politics
and political manipulation of holdings.
Now scatter in tokens which further mutate the territory map. The
only real reason for this is to add non-player randomity and to vary
the realised value and timing of otherwise known variables (lands
and their colours). More simply: They're cheap dynamism. The
tokens will be time limited and will pop fairly randomly in hidden
(need to be found) locations. The challenge is to find them, deploy
appropriately, and try and marry them into a strategy before they
crumble.
"If we can get the swamp our Oracle says some sort of magical
object should be popping there soon after it goes Blue. If we can
find that in time, which will be tough, we might even be able to
push the Whities all the way back to their fortress!"
In-built requirements for cooperation and positive feedback loops to
encourage those that do.
Key assumption: Players think they want to play SuperQuake. Let
them. Encourage them. Help them. Also make being more than a
SuperQuake player more rewarding at being a SuperQuake player.
<shrug> Its basically a variation on the old model of the physical
world being the basic opponent for the players.
> That paradigm also encourages the mentality that its not worth
> logging on unless you have several hours free. Thats one of my
> peeves with EQ, unless I have about 5 hours free, its simply not
> worth logging on with my high level character.
What is your definition of "worth" for a play session? What is the
basic metric of value which you measure and quantify to adjudge that
something was "worth it" or not?
Stat gain? Major activity compleated (eg area, NPC hunt, whatever)?
Good social time? Successfully compleated personally set goals
(which are)?
--
J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu
---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows
- On socialization and convenience Daniel A. Koepke
- On socialization and convenience Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- On socialization and convenience Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience Freeman, Jeff
- On socialization and convenience Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- On socialization and convenience Marian Griffith
- On socialization and convenience Auli
- On socialization and convenience Brian Hook
- On socialization and convenience Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience Koster, Raph
- On socialization and convenience grafx@innovativestudios.com
- On socialization and convenience Matt Mihaly
- On socialization and convenience J C Lawrence
- 3rd person text MUDs Colin Coghill
- 3rd person text MUDs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- 3rd person text MUDs Matt Owen
- 3rd person text MUDs Richard A. Bartle
- TEC in PC Gamer Bruce
- Language Parsing for NPCs Aaron Mulder
- Language Parsing for NPCs Robert Zubek
- Language Parsing for NPCs Aaron Mulder
- Language Parsing for NPCs Troy Fisher
- Language Parsing for NPCs Robert Zubek
- Language Parsing for NPCs Robert Zubek
- Language Parsing for NPCs Bruce
- Language Parsing for NPCs Robert Zubek
- Language Parsing for NPCs Sanvean
- PK headaches Matt Mihaly
- PK headaches Ian Hess
- PK headaches Matt Mihaly
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Alex Kay
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Brian Hook
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Dave Rickey
- When the interface becomes the challenge. J C Lawrence
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Travis Nixon
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Lee Sheldon
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Brian Hook
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Ling Lo
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Dave Rickey
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Brian Hook
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Dave Rickey
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Adam Martin
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Travis Nixon
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- When the interface becomes the challenge. J C Lawrence
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Koster, Raph
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Andrew Wilson
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Edward Glowacki
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Andrew Wilson
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Edward Glowacki
- When the interface becomes the challenge. J C Lawrence
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Edward Glowacki
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Matt Owen
- When the interface becomes the challenge. Alex Kay
- NWN and pay for play Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- NWN and pay for play Freeman, Jeff
- Definition of a character (was: Maintaining fiction.) Ian Collyer
- Definition of permadeath (was: Maintaining fiction.) Ian Collyer
- Anyone going to GENCON 2001 Derek Licciardi
- Anyone going to GENCON 2001 J C Lawrence
- Identity Theft and MUDding Anthony R. Haslage
- Identity Theft and MUDding Matt Mihaly
- Identity Theft and MUDding Robert Fleck
- Identity Theft and MUDding Matt Mihaly
- Absolute Death (legalese mode on) shren
- Absolute Death (legalese mode on) Matt Mihaly
- Absolute Death (legalese mode on) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Absolute Death (legalese mode on) Matt Mihaly
- Absolute Death (legalese mode on) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- NWN- Pay for play Trent Oster
- Interpersonal Relationships Ronan Farrell
- Interpersonal Relationships Michael Tresca
- Interpersonal Relationships Ronan Farrell
- Interpersonal Relationships quzah
- Interpersonal Relationships J C Lawrence
- Interpersonal Relationships quzah
- Interpersonal Relationships Marian Griffith
- Interpersonal Relationships Freeman, Jeff
- Interpersonal Relationships Matt Mihaly
- Interpersonal Relationships Marian Griffith
- Interpersonal Relationships Matt Mihaly
- Interpersonal Relationships Ronan Farrell
- [PVP] Another essay on PVP Frank Crowell
- Speech to Text, Eli Stevens
- Speech to Text, John Buehler
- Speech to Text, J C Lawrence
- Speech to Text, Adam Martin
- Speech to Text, Madrona Tree
- Speech to Text, John Buehler
- Speech to Text, Travis Casey
- Speech to Text, Adam Martin
- Website Live Lee Sheldon
- Address change notification Vincent Archer
- Real lawsuit over virtual property Dave Rickey
- UDP vs TCP/IP Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- UDP vs TCP/IP J C Lawrence
- UDP vs TCP/IP Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- UDP vs TCP/IP J C Lawrence
- UDP vs TCP/IP Andrew Kirmse
- UDP vs TCP/IP J C Lawrence
- UDP vs TCP/IP J C Lawrence
- UDP vs TCP/IP Jon Lambert
- UDP vs TCP/IP Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- UDP vs TCP/IP Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- UDP vs TCP/IP Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Permadeath definition thread J C Lawrence
- List rituals Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- List rituals Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- List Rituals John Robert Arras
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals Travis Casey
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- List rituals Marian Griffith
- List rituals yospe@kanga.nu
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- List rituals yospe@kanga.nu
- List rituals J C Lawrence
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay rayzam
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Ashen Temper
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay J C Lawrence
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Matt Mihaly
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Trump
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay holding99@mindspring.com
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay John Buehler
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay J C Lawrence
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay holding99@mindspring.com
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Travis Casey
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay John Buehler
- Non-combat advancement and roleplay Michael Tresca
- When is the game a game? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- When is the game a game? Travis Casey
- When is the game a game? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- When is the game a game? Travis Casey
- When is the game a game? Phillip Lenhardt
- When is the game a game? Matt Mihaly
- When is the game a game? J C Lawrence
- When is the game a game? F. Randall Farmer
- Definition of a character II, permadeath and "who's running this show anyway?" Ian Collyer
- TECH: ColdStore and MUDs ryan daum
- TECH: ColdStore and MUDs Phillip Lenhardt
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Travis Nixon
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Brian Hook
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Brian Hook
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Travis Nixon
- Trust systems and Player-Run Reputation Phillip Lenhardt
- Magic system that can do anything Eli Stevens
- Magic system that can do anything matt hellige
- Magic system that can do anything John Buehler
- Player Goals rayzam
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Delphine T. Lynx
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Matt Mihaly
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Federico Di Gregorio
- Value in the Economy of the MOG J C Lawrence
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Federico Di Gregorio
- Value in the Economy of the MOG J C Lawrence
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Dave Rickey
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Derek Licciardi
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Dave Rickey
- Value in the Economy of the MOG J C Lawrence
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Michael Tresca
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Ashen Temper
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Marian Griffith
- Value in the Economy of the MOG J C Lawrence
- Value in the Economy of the MOG Ashen Temper
- Re[4]: List rituals Travis Casey
- Re[4]: List rituals J C Lawrence
- Re[4]: List rituals Travis Casey
- Re[4]: List rituals Travis Nixon
- Player run systems (was Player run reputation system) John Hopson
- Player run systems (was Player run reputation system) J Todd Coleman
- Player run systems (was Player run reputation system) J C Lawrence
- Player run systems (was Player run reputation system) David Bennett