April 2001

• Camelot Beta 3 Dave Rickey
• • Camelot Beta 3 Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • • Camelot Beta 3 Vincent Archer
    • • Camelot Beta 3 Derek Licciardi
      • Camelot Beta 3 Darrin Hyrup
      • • Camelot Beta 3 Vincent Archer
        • • Camelot Beta 3 Dave Rickey
          • • Camelot Beta 3 Darrin Hyrup
    • Camelot Beta 3 Auli
• Room Searching Jared
• • Room Searching shren
  • Room Searching Travis Casey
  • Room Searching Eli Stevens
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Jared" <jared81@jps.net>
    To: <mud-dev@kanga.nu>
    Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 11:25 AM
    Subject: [MUD-Dev] Room Searching
    
    > The dilemma is that I don't know how to find if "room B" can be
    > walked to from "room A". That is to say, if a room cannot be walked
    > to in the game, and it isn't a clan or guild headquarters, then it's
    > illegal to be in. I need some function like:
    
    > bool can_walk (ROOM *origin, ROOM *destination);
    
    > Which would return true if 'destination' can be walked to from
    > 'origin'. The rooms all have the four cardinal directions in
    > addition to up and down as their exits, and the only solution I've
    > found thus far is to treat the situation like searching a tree with
    > at most six branches, over the course of 8000 rooms.
    
    Perhaps you could start with one room known to be public (starting
    from, say, a Midgard-esque town center) and make a list of all the
    rooms that can be traveled to from it using only two-way exits. I
    would suggest using a breadth-first search and keeping duplicates out
    of the list of pending rooms to check. Along the way, keep note of
    the one-way exits you find, but don't follow them (why is explained
    later). Once you have the connected room list (which should be all of
    the rooms that anyone can walk to from public areas), use that however
    you want to get all the rooms still in question. Hopefully, this
    remainder will be much smaller than 8000 (I am imagining that there
    might be recall areas with one way exits, areas under construction or
    somesuch). From there, you can do the same search on each, looking to
    see if the rooms in question ever has a path to your larger blob of
    public rooms.
    
    Aside, I would not reccommend using recursion. Instead, use a stack
    and a loop for depth first search, or a queue and loop for breadth
    first. I don't really know if most modern compilers can detect and
    optimize tail recursion, but the stack/queue-loop solution is pretty
    trivial to implement, and you can be assured that you will not run out
    of space on your function call stack. ;) I would also reccomend the
    standard template library (STL), if you are using C++. Of course, I
    could be wrong here... So take it all with a grain of salt and a
    decent profiler. ;)
    
    The end result that I envision is a directed graph, but instead of
    each node being a room, it is a collection of rooms that are all
    accessible from each other. Unless your mud has a lot of interesting
    geography, this graph should be fairly small (at least in terms of
    what a computer can handle quickly).
    
    The can_walk function would then check if the two rooms were in the
    same node (I think that a decent hash table might be your best bet for
    storing the list of rooms in a node, because most likely one node will
    have the majority of rooms and having to do a O(log n) binary search
    on that too often might bog down). If they are, it returns true
    (accessibility being the definition of two rooms in the same node).
    If not, then it searches the graph to see if it can get from the
    origin's node to the destination's node. Again, unless you have
    interesting geography, your graph will most likely look like a bunch
    of small nodes with a single edge pointing in to the larger set of
    public rooms.
    
    So, computationally, on average, finding the node in the graph for
    each room (r being the number of rooms, n being the number of nodes, h
    being the number of hash indicies):
    
    (nodes to search / 2) * (time to search node
    = hash function + collision funciton)
    
    (n / 2) * O(constant + log(r / h))
    
    Hopefully, the hash table will be well behaved enough to offer O(1)
    i.e. constant time. If the nodes are searched for the rooms starting
    from the nodes with the most rooms, then even the O(n) nature of the
    overall search will tend toward constant time (since most rooms will
    be found on the first search). In the worst case, it would be O(n +
    log(r / h)). Hopefully, r would not be too many orders of magnitude
    above h and the geography of your mud is not too fragmented (leading
    to a large n) so this isn't too bad. :)
    
    Of course, this all assumes that your room connectivity does not
    fundamentally change often (I am not talking about opening and closing
    a door here). Adding a two-way exit would be pretty simple to handle,
    because you would just need to add the rooms behind the new exit to
    whatever node the first room belongs to. A one way exit would be
    adding an edge to the graph, assuming that the two rooms were in
    different nodes to start with. Making a one-way exit two-way would
    combine the two nodes into one, keeping all the other edges the same.
    Removing an exit would most likely mean that you would have to
    recompute the whole durn thing (I cannot see any shortcuts to
    detecting if a given exit isolated the rooms, or just cut a loop, but
    that doesn't meant they don't exist). A decent book on graph theory
    would probably be your best friend here, if you care that much. ;)
    
    > However, this solution of mine seems computationally expensive and
    > if I'm running through this traversal for each room, that's an 8000
    > node tree traversed 8000 times- which makes me think I'm going to
    > bring the server to its' knees. I don't have any real idea of how
    > hardcore this is gonna be, but I'd like some input on it before I
    > try using the tree-approach.
    
    Yup, that would be bad. :) Assuming all my assumptions (hmm...) are
    correct, then what's above should work out. Of course, if anyone sees
    any flaws in my thinking, pleasepleaseplease point them out. I like
    to know when I am wrong, so I can make sure it doesn't happen again...
    ;)
    
    Good luck,
    Eli
  • Room Searching Derek Licciardi
  • • Room Searching Adam Martin
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  • Room Searching Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
  • Room Searching David Bennett
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  • • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent Bruce
    • • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent Frank Crowell
    • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent Kwon Ekstrom
    • • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent John Robert Arras
    • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent Jon Lambert
    • • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent John Buehler
  • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent Frank Crowell
  • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent Travis Nixon
  • • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent Marian Griffith
  • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent John Buehler
  • • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent Dave Rickey
  • [BIZ][TECH] worlds.com gets patent Derek Licciardi
• called shots Josh Rollyson
• • called shots Matt Mihaly
  • called shots Mordengaard
  • called shots Ling Lo
  • called shots shren
  • • called shots John Buehler
    • called shots Kwon Ekstrom
    • • called shots Travis Casey
  • called shots Travis Casey
• TECH: Distributed Muds J C Lawrence
• • TECH: Distributed Muds Brad Roberts
  • • TECH: Distributed Muds J C Lawrence
• TECH: Distributed Muds Dominic J. Eidson
• TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Bruce
• • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Derek Snider
  • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Bruce
    • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Derek Snider
      • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Alex
        • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) shren
          • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
          • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Derek Snider
  • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) John Buehler
    • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) John Buehler
    • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Kwon Ekstrom
    • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Derek Licciardi
    • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) John Buehler
        • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
          • • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) John Buehler
        • TECH: reliablity (was: Distributed Muds) Kwon Ekstrom
• TECH: prefetching/madvise (was: Distributed Muds) Bruce
• • TECH: prefetching/madvise (was: Distributed Muds) Matthew D. Fuller
• TECH: Distributed Muds J C Lawrence
• • TECH: Distributed Muds Scion Altera
• Re:called shots Eric Lamy
• Where are we now? Greg Munt
• • Where are we now? Ronan Farrell
  • • Where are we now? Matt Mihaly
    • Where are we now? Greg Munt
    • • Where are we now? Ronan Farrell
      • • Where are we now? Adam Martin
        • • Where are we now? Bryce Harrington
        • Where are we now? Deidril
        • • Where are we now? Bryce Harrington
        • Where are we now? Elia Morling
      • Where are we now? Matt Mihaly
      • • Where are we now? McManus, Susan
  • Where are we now? Matt Mihaly
  • Where are we now? Kwon Ekstrom
  • • Where are we now? Brian Hook
    • • Where are we now? Kwon Ekstrom
      • • Where are we now? Michael Tresca
        • • Where are we now? S. Patrick Gallaty
          • • Where are we now? Greg Munt
            • • Where are we now? S. Patrick Gallaty
      • Where are we now? Matt Mihaly
  • Where are we now? Koster, Raph
  • • Where are we now? Greg Munt
    • • Where are we now? Matt Mihaly
      • • Where are we now? Greg Munt
        • • Where are we now? Matt Mihaly
  • Where are we now? Bruce
  • • Where are we now? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • • Where are we now? Koster, Raph
      • • Where are we now? Richard A. Bartle
        • Where are we now? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Where are we now? Bruce
  • • Where are we now? Greg Munt
    • • Where are we now? Koster, Raph
      • • Where are we now? rayzam
  • Where are we now? Madman Across the Water
  • • Where are we now? Bryce Harrington
    • • Where are we now? Madman Across the Water
      • • Where are we now? Freeman, Jeff
• TECH: DBM vs BDB speeds (was: AmigaMud DB questions) Bruce
• • TECH: DBM vs BDB speeds (was: AmigaMud DB questions) Jon Lambert
  • • TECH: DBM vs BDB speeds (was: AmigaMud DB questions) Bruce
• fault tolerance and character files Steven Fleischaker
• • fault tolerance and character files Kwon Ekstrom
  • • fault tolerance and character files Bruce
    • • fault tolerance and character files Kwon Ekstrom
    • fault tolerance and character files Vincent Archer