July 2000
- Scalable Network I/O in Linux J C Lawrence
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players adam@treyarch.com
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Patrick Dughi
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Scatter
- curses and grief players Marc Bowden
- curses and grief players David Bennett
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Patrick Dughi
- curses and grief players Marc Bowden
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Patrick Dughi
- curses and grief players J C Lawrence
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players stoddart@slip.net
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Patrick Dughi
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Matthew Mihaly
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players jolson@micron.net
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Josh Olson
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Jon A. Lambert
- curses and grief players John Buehler
- curses and grief players Patrick Dughi
- curses and grief players Zak Jarvis
- curses and grief players John Buehler
- curses and grief players Jon A. Lambert
- curses and grief players John Buehler
- curses and grief players Malcolm Valentine
- curses and grief players John Buehler
- curses and grief players Patrick Dughi
- curses and grief players John Buehler
- curses and grief players J C Lawrence
- curses and grief players John Buehler
- curses and grief players J C Lawrence
- curses and grief players Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- curses and grief players Travis Nixon
- curses and grief players J C Lawrence
- curses and grief players John Buehler
- curses and grief players Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- curses and grief players Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- curses and grief players Marc Bowden
- curses and grief players Matthew Mihaly
- curses and grief players J C Lawrence
- curses and grief players John Buehler
- curses and grief players Dave Rickey
- curses and grief players Jon A. Lambert
- curses and grief players John Buehler
- curses and grief players Nicholas Daley
- curses and grief players J C Lawrence
- curses and grief players Val Trullinger
- curses and grief players David Bennett
- curses and grief players Timothy Dang
- curses and grief players KevinL
- curses and grief players Raph Koster
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players KevinL
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Nicholas Daley
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- curses and grief players KevinL
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players J C Lawrence
- curses and grief players Jon A. Lambert
- curses and grief players Marian Griffith
- curses and grief players J C Lawrence
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Jon A. Lambert
- curses and grief players Greg Miller
- curses and grief players Andy
- curses and grief players Timothy Dang
- Fantasy clichés (was: Acting casual about casual gamers) Brian Green
- Fantasy clichés (was: Acting casual about casualgamers) Raph Koster
- Fantasy cliché s (was: Acting casual about casualgamers) Travis Nixon
- Fantasy cliché s (was: Acting casual about casualgamers) Dave Rickey
- Fantasy clichés (was: Acting cas ual aboutcasualgamers) S. Patrick Gallaty
- Combat systems, the good the bad and the ugly Malcolm Valentine
- Combat systems, the good the bad and the ugly Travis Casey
- "Mud-school", character-gen and role-playing Tim Vernum
- "Mud-school", character-gen and role-playing Raph Koster
- "Mud-school", character-gen and role-playing Travis Casey
- "Mud-school", character-gen and role-playing adam@treyarch.com
- "Mud-school", character-gen and role-playing Greg Miller
- "Mud-school", character-gen and role-playing Travis Casey
- "Mud-school", character-gen and role-playing Nameless Solforge
- "Mud-school", character-gen and role-playing Chris Turner
- "Mud-school", character-gen and role-playing Christopher Allen
- Fantasy clichés Michael Tresca
- Fantasy clichés Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Fantasy clichés Zak Jarvis
- Online gaming conference Matthew Mihaly
- Online gaming conference J C Lawrence
- Online gaming conference Milne, Alistair
- A new combat system Dragat123@aol.com
- A new combat system Thinus Barnard
- A new combat system Ryan P.
- A new combat system Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- A new combat system Ryan P.
- A new combat system Russo, Joe
- A new combat system Ryan P.
- A new combat system Travis Casey
- A new combat system adam@treyarch.com
- A new combat system Travis Casey
- A new combat system J C Lawrence
- A new combat system Travis Casey
- A new combat system J C Lawrence
- A new combat system John Bertoglio
> J C Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 11:57 PM
>
<much cut to get to the part I want to comment on>
> I want detailed, mutually reactive and
> intelligent behavior to be possible. I want realtime tactics to be
> both possible and rewarding, which is a site different than just
> speed-clicking "stab/slash/kick/bash". I want to be able to have
> the results and progress of a slowtime activity to be directly
> dependant on my human (or scripted) capabilities.
This is a reasonable goal. It is easier to do on a 100meg LAN than
over the public Internet, but not impossible if the reasonable design
approach is taken. The current problem with game worlds of all
kinds run over networks with unpredictable and variable lag is that
virtually all combat tactics (be it a stock mud, CounterStrike or
Diablo) include the exploitation of network lag. A graphic world
with people fighting with 3D images in real time has no choice
but to simplify the combat options. This can get fairly
sophisticated. The latest arcade Tecken games use about 9 buttons
to control a huge number of moves. The move/counter move can be
very intricate. Watching two human players who know the game is
a lot of fun. It becomes a real (if bloody) sporting event that
is easy to get into.
Trying to model Tecken 3 over the Internet will simply fail. Even
with high speed connections, the lag between command and execution
destroys the ability of the player to suspend their disbelief and
enjoy the ride. If the designer scales down the interaction to
handle lag, the compromise can provide a decent gaming experience.
A text world has the ability to take a more leisurely pace. It
is (I believe) a requirement. The advantage of a visual environment
is the ability to serve huge amounts of information. The mind-eye
connection makes a single video frame truly worth a thousand words.
If this is true, the text game designer who is trying to emulate
a visual interface will fail. Just try this simple exercise: As
you drive down a street in a commercial district, try to describe
everything you see as you move by at 25 mph to someone with their
eyes closed. What you will find is that you can only describe a
fraction of the detail. Imagine if there were four sword fights
going on the street when you stopped for a light. How could
you possibly describe the scene fast enough to give your
passenger an idea in which fight they should intervene?
Combat (or any other competitive interaction) can provide a
significant tactical challenge if it is approached correctly. The
key is to have a much information as possible already stored on
the server. Our system allows the player to build responses to
various events in a database stored on the server. Combat is based
on a move/counter move using an action point system similar to
the ones being discussed in the Diablo combat system thread. After
a round is completed, the system checks to see if it has any new
commands have been issued. If not, the default behavior from
the character combat profiles is checked and executed.
At any time during combat, a profile/pattern can be edited.
Simple text commands can also change the current pattern for the
duration of the combat.
A schematic sample interaction:
[Kill Boffo 4] you attempt to kill Boffo using attack pattern 4
... messages about how the combat is going.
... you decide to change attack patterns based on the text
[AP 2] you draw your dagger and begin using a two handed attack
... messages about how the combat is going.
... Boffo gets very aggressive
... your character is getting hit fairly hard
[Backoff] you are still using AP 2 but you are being more careful
[CH 1] you excite combat healing technique 1
... messages about how the combat is going.
[BF] you pull back one more level
... messages about how the combat is going.
... Boffo's wild lunges are not working because of your defensive
posture so he changes his attack pattern.
[Close, AP 1] you react to his change with one of your own.
... messages about how the combat is going.
... Boffo is down. You have a default behavior for this situation
... and so on
Adding magic is easy... just another attack/defense method. Use
of magic takes action points and can be interrupted as can any
physical strike.
While I have only run combat against NPC's, the text presentation
is interesting and exciting. The ability to adjust profiles and
issue commands provides a wealth of tactical decisions. Another
advantage of this system is that it is easy to script behavior
for NPCs (In our system, NPCs are identical to player characters.
They reside in the same database and can be controlled by either
the server or an individual. An interesting result of the method
is the combats seem to follow the patterns seen in action movies
(my only point of reference for martial arts). One player attacks
in a flurry and the other defends. Then the tables turn and the
defender presses the attacker. It makes for an interesting
narrative.
I have raised these issues in the past, but perhaps the text
above expresses it better than before.
> Note: I prefer binding much of the ability of a character to his
> human player rather than attempting to calculate and emulate them
> via locally stored statistics and weights. Thus you don't get so
> much get "high level characters" as "high level players", or to
> dramatize my view:
>
> A newbie character played by an expert should be able to best most
> high level characters played by merely competent humans (combat,
> running, game challenges, whatever). Ditto for competent
> human/newbie character versus nerbie human/high level character.
The system described above will favor the person who understands
how to preplan based on their character's strengths and how to react
when the plans blow up. To the degree it is successful, the system
will model the subtle advantages of an expert warrior. The modest
differences between a newbie and a high level character in the system
makes this more likely. I suspect a system where high level characters
deliver blows like tactical nukes would be somewhat harder to balance.
>
> Providing explicit and dramatic support for slowtime/fastime just
> seems one route to provide this. It just has problems.
My suggestion is to ignore time and just let things take as long as
they take. Attempting to synchronize time for all persons in the
world leads to severe constraints on action. A player engaged in
combat is no different than one in the same area talking or carving
wood.
John A. Bertoglio
_____
PulsePoll.com <http://www.pulsepoll.com/>
| 503.781.3563
| jb@pulsepoll.com|
>
> --
> J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu
> ---------(*) Other: coder@kanga.nu
> http://www.kanga/nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu
> --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--
>
> - A new combat system Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- A new combat system J C Lawrence
- A new combat system John Bertoglio
- A new combat system adam@treyarch.com
- A new combat system Ben
- Fantasy clich=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?=s Ryan Schotte
- Fantasy clich s J C Lawrence
- Fantasy clich s Raph Koster
- Number Economy Michael Tresca
- Number Economy Philip Loguinov, Draymoor
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- Fantasy clich=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?=s Ryan Schotte
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- Corruption of the game, profit and ethics John Bertoglio
- Corruption of the game, profit and ethics Chris Jacobson
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- Corruption of the game, profit and ethics Raph Koster
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- Why Socializers are our Comrades (long) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
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- Harry Potter J C Lawrence
- Harry Potter John Bertoglio
- Harry Potter Todd McKimmey
- Harry Potter Todd McKimmey
- Harry Potter Raph Koster
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- Harry Potter Michael Tresca
- [Meta] Harry Potter David Bennett
- Fantasy clich=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?=s (was: Acting casual about casualgamers) Ananda Dawnsinger
- MUDs, eBay Farmers in The Economist Daniel James
- Introduction System Nathan Clemons
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- Introduction System J C Lawrence
- Introduction System S. Patrick Gallaty
- Introduction System seanl@literati.org
- Introduction System J C Lawrence
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- Introduction System Bruce
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- Introduction System J C Lawrence
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- Introduction System J C Lawrence
- Introduction System adam@treyarch.com
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- Introduction System Eli Stevens
- Introduction System Mordengaard
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- Introduction System Jon Callas
- curses and grief players - dark ages game solutions S. Patrick Gallaty
- Fantasy clichés (was: Acting casual aboutcasualgamers) adam@treyarch.com
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- Spherical World Design Patrick Dughi
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- Modelling combat Travis Casey
- Modelling combat adam@treyarch.com
- Modelling combat Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Modelling combat J C Lawrence
- Modelling combat Travis Casey
- Modelling combat adam@treyarch.com
- Modelling combat adam@treyarch.com
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- Modelling combat Vladimir Prelovac
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- Modelling combat Greg Miller
- Modelling combat Chris Gray
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- Modelling combat jolson@micron.net
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- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Mud Imp
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- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs John Buehler
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Dave Rickey
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Dave Rickey
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs jolson@micron.net
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Marc Bowden
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Patrick Dughi
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Dave Rickey
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Greg Miller
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- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Jeff Freeman
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Travis Casey
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Travis Casey
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Colin Coghill
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs KevinL
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Travis Nixon
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Dave Rickey
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Travis Casey
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Travis Casey
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs KevinL
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Raph Koster
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Dave Rickey
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- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Raph Koster
- Code Repository Kyndig
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #164 - 12 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #164 - 12 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #164 - 12 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #164 - 12 msgs Raph Koster
- Mud-Dev FAQ 1 Marian Griffith
- Mud-dev FAQ 1 Marian Griffith
- Mud-Dev FAQ 2 Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #165 - 14 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #165 - 14 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #165 - 14 msgs John Buehler
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #165 - 14 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #165 - 14 msgs John Buehler
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #165 - 14 msgs Dave Rickey
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #165 - 14 msgs Tamzen Cannoy
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #165 - 14 msgs Greg Miller
- [Meta] MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs J C Lawrence
- [Meta] MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #163 - 25 msgs Raph Koster
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- grief players S. Patrick Gallaty
- Combat Systems Ben
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- Combat Systems J C Lawrence
- Combat Systems Ben
- Combat Systems adam@treyarch.com
- Combat Systems Ben
- Combat Systems adam@treyarch.com
- Combat Systems Phillip Lenhardt
- Combat Systems adam@treyarch.com
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- Thread models and Linux J C Lawrence
- eXistenZ Zak Jarvis
- Player skill Tess Lowe
- Player vs. Character Skills Ananda Dawnsinger
- Command Qeues - Was "Combat Systems" Ben
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- Roleplaying in Muds Colin Coghill
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- Roleplaying in Muds J C Lawrence
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- Roleplaying in Muds Solmyr of the Azure Star
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- Roleplaying in Muds Josh Anderson
- Roleplaying in Muds rayzam
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- eXistenZ Richard Tew
- Scaling a world. Saereth2000@aol.com
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- Scaling a world. Patrick Dughi
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- AutoClass Ling Lo
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- Required EXP algorithms Ben
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- Questing Systems Ben
- Questing Systems Chris Gray
- Questing Systems Nathan Clemons
- Questing Systems Mordengaard
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- Questing Systems John Hopson
- Questing Systems Raph Koster
- Questing Systems Kristen L. Koster
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- Balance... RPG or Role-Playing Game? Ben
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- Balance... RPG or Role-Playing Game? Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
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- Balance... RPG or Role-Playing Game? Koster, Raph
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- WorldForge Acorn demo 0.1 alpha released Alistair Riddoch
- Threading Models and Command Queues Ben
- Medievia advertises in Dragon magazine Charles Hughes
- MUD Wimping Michael Tresca
- MUD Wimping Dan Shiovitz
- MUD Wimping Matthew Mihaly
- MUD Wimping Michael Tresca
- MUD Wimping adam@treyarch.com
- MUD Wimping Matthew Mihaly
- MUD Wimping Raph Koster
- MUD Wimping adam@treyarch.com
- MUD Wimping Patrick Dughi
- MUD Wimping Matthew Mihaly
- MUD Wimping J C Lawrence
- MUD Wimping Lazarus
- MUD Wimping adam@treyarch.com
- MUD Wimping KevinL
- MUD Wimping Chris Turner
- MUD Wimping Koster, Raph
- MUD Wimping J C Lawrence
- MUD Wimping Matthew Mihaly
- MUD Wimping Matt Chatterley
- MUD Wimping Raph Koster
- MUD Wimping stoddart@slip.net
- Article: Constructive Politics in a MMORPGs (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Permadeath (was: Balance... RPG or Role-Playing Game?) Eli Stevens
- The Player Wimping Guidebook J C Lawrence
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Nathan Clemons
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook ROBERT MCCAULEY
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Val Trullinger
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Jeremy Noetzelman
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook adam@treyarch.com
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Malcolm Tester
- The Player Wimping Guidebook J C Lawrence
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook rayzam
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Raph Koster
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook J C Lawrence
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matt Chatterley
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Patrick Dughi
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Brian Vrolyk
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Warren Powell
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Marc Bowden
- The Player Wimping Guidebook rayzam
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Greg Underwood
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Greg Underwood
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Jerry Hill
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matt Chatterley
- The Player Wimping Guidebook rayzam
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Raph Koster
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Michael Tresca
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Nathan Clemons
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matt Chatterley
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Raph Koster
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Zak Jarvis
- The Player Wimping Guidebook J C Lawrence
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Steven Wallace
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph
- The Player Wimping Guidebook adam@treyarch.com
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph
- The Player Wimping Guidebook adam@treyarch.com
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Raph Koster
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matthew Mihaly
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph
- The Player Wimping Guidebook adam@treyarch.com
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Raph Koster
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Matt Chatterley
- The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph