May 2000
- Interesting online game Brian Green
- Bayesian statistics Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Client Technology Jon Morrow
- Client Technology Todd McKimmey
- Client Technology Andrew Wilson
- Client Technology Ben Greear
- Client Technology Greg Munt
- Client Technology Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Client Technology Joel Dillon
- Advogato J C Lawrence
- tdbm etc. J C Lawrence
- text user interface Eli Stevens
- text user interface Chris Gray
- Legends of Kesmai, RIP Raph Koster
- Legends of Kesmai, RIP Clevmut@aol.com
- Medievia ads in PCGamer? Schubert, Damion
- Medievia ads in PCGamer? Rasdan
- FIrst LOgin REview (was attracting players) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- FIrst LOgin REview (was attracting players) adam@treyarch.com
- FIrst LOgin REview (was attracting players) David Bennett
- FIrst LOgin REview (was attracting players) adam@treyarch.com
- FIrst LOgin REview (was attracting players) David Bennett
- FIrst LOgin REview (was attracting players) Chris Gray
- FIrst LOgin REview (was attracting players) Chris Gray
- Addressing newbies Johan J Ingles-le Nobel
- Addressing newbies stoddart@slip.net
- Addressing newbies adam@treyarch.com
- Addressing newbies J C Lawrence
- Addressing newbies Chris Gray
- Addressing newbies Powell, Warren
- Addressing newbies adam@treyarch.com
- Addressing newbies Chris Lloyd
- Addressing newbies adam@treyarch.com
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Chris Lloyd wrote:
> > Adam Wiggins wrote:
> > I think my favorite feature was that it steered you towards newbie areas.
> > That is, when you came to a crossroads, it would say "The forest
> > to the west is dangerous, I wouldn't go there until you are stronger" or
> > "There's a village to the east, we can buy supplies there" etc.
>
> I would never put a dangerous area so accessible to newbies,
In that case you've never watched a newbie to see just how far they can get.
Either you restrict the newbies unnecessarily (not letting them enter
areas flagged as "dangerous", or forcing them to stay in a newbie area), or
you face the chanec that one of them will find their way into a dangerous
area. (Remember, just about *everything* on a typical HnS mud is dangerous
for a brand new player.)
> although I
> quite agree with Warren Powell's idea of having aggressive monsters leave
> newbies alone.
Potential for abuse is high. Large group of high-level characters die on
really tough NPC in the midst of a dangerous area. Rather than retrieving
their equipment "the hard way", they create a few newbies and run through the
area unmolested.
Even if you don't have the need for "corpse retrieval" on your mud (I don't),
I would imagine that players would take to exploring new zones with a
newbie character - something people do anyways, but especially if they
are immune to its dangers.
> A forest itself might not be too bad, perhaps filled with
> rabbits and birds, but the nest of spiders at the centre (which might have
> one or at most two entrances) is more obviously dangerous, and can be easily
> avoided.
What is "obvious"? I have a slaver ship off one of the docks which has
numerous foreboding room descriptions, making it very clear that you should
not proceed unless you know what you're doing. Even once on the ship itself,
it's still quite possible to retreat back to safety, seeing what dangers
await.
Even so, (relative) newbies get captured by the slavers ALL the time. I
rather like this effect (it gives a chance for player interaction as a mid-rank
character can rush to the newbies' rescue), but you see my point.
Other muds I have played had newbies lost or killed in areas that were
hundreds of steps away from the start area. In some cases they had (through
blind "luck") wandered deep into aggressive teritory.
In fact - I did this, myself, on my first mud. More than once. I ignored
room descriptions, signs saying "DANGER, KEEP OUT!" and more. I suppose it's
the old "Do Not Push This Button" syndrome. If you tell the player not to
do something, they are going to be curious...
> I would say that this sounds a little artificial. Without wanted to bring up
> an old topic (Fair/Unfair Scenarios - Nov/Dec 1999), I do not think that
> dangers should be pointed out so blatantly. IMHO, a newbie should be given
> the following to start with, and then left to him/herself:
As I am coming to appreciate more and more, newbies NEED things to be blatant.
Even if they are experienced mudders. The overload of data when they come
into the world, coupled with the desire to "get to the action", means that
they will most certainly ignore any "subtle" clues, and even most of your
blatant ones.
> A map of the world - This is important, and can either be on a website or in
> inside the game itself. It allows the young player to get at least a vague
> idea of where he is. ("Hm... I am looking for South Sunny Town, where I know
> the Mercenaries Guild is. I appear to be in the middle of the desert. Guess
> I'll head south and then see where I am then.")
I agree, but most newbies don't have the patience to figure out where they
are on a map. Although giving them maps are important, expecting them to
"figure out" anything from the map is damn unlikely. Yes, if they stick
around, they will *eventually* have the desire and the means to navigate
according to a map and use other indirect clues to "figure out" things about
the world. As newbies, forget it.
> A recall ability - I think all muds should have one, at least for newbies.
> Unless your game consists of only one centrally positioned and VERY easy to
> find city, newbies will get lost. Taking the recall ability away after
> newbies have gained some experience sounds fair to me, but all young
> characters will lose interest if they take a wrong turning and end up in the
> middle of an ocean with no idea how to get home.
*nod* A panic button. As much as this brings me back bad memories of
silly ROMs, I probably need to implement something like this (for newbies
only).
> Give them lots of small areas with different
> things to kill, each designed to introduce the newbie to bashing. If one of
> your popular bashing areas for players is a nest full of poisonous spiders,
> give newbies an area with small, poisonous snakes. Put an old man in giving
> away free poison cures, so newbies learn when they are poisoned and how to
> get rid of it.
*nod* See my post about the Temple of Orcus, on Arctic MUD.
There's no reason that newbies should get stuck with the "boring" areas.
Adam - Addressing newbies Chris Lloyd
- Addressing newbies adam@treyarch.com
- Addressing newbies adam@treyarch.com
- Addressing newbies Christopher Allen
- Addressing newbies J C Lawrence
- Addressing newbies J C Lawrence
- Addressing newbies Raph Koster
- Addressing newbies Christopher Allen
- Addressing newbies adam@treyarch.com
- Addressing newbies J C Lawrence
- Introduction Ian C. Smith
- constructive quests Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- new email address Travis Casey
- [Meta] chest puffing (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [Meta] chest puffing (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [Meta] chest puffing (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- [Meta] chest puffing (fwd) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [Meta] chest puffing (fwd) Par Winzell
- [Meta] chest puffing (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- [Meta] chest puffing (fwd) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [Meta] chest puffing (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Critique: Realms of Despair adam@treyarch.com
- Critique: Realms of Despair David Bennett
- Critique: Realms of Despair Kevin Scott London
- Critique: Realms of Despair adam@treyarch.com
- Critique: Realms of Despair Andrew Ritchie
- Critique: Realms of Despair adam@treyarch.com
- Critique: Realms of Despair adam@treyarch.com
- Critique: Realms of Despair Marc Bowden
- Software combinations Ian C. Smith
- Software combinations David Bennett
- Software combinations Erik Jarvi
- Software combinations Ian C. Smith
- Software combinations Scatter
- Software combinations J C Lawrence
- Hobby Muds and Money Maarten van Leunen
- Hobby Muds and Money Mordengaard
- Mud Clients Mud Imp
- update on selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- update on selling Godhoods Brian Green
- update on selling Godhoods Richard Woolcock
- update on selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- update on selling Godhoods Jeremy Hovance
- Ten commandments for the next MMORPG Raph Koster
- Ten commandments for the next MMORPG Dan Shiovitz
- Ten commandments for the next MMORPG Brian Green
- Ten commandments for the next MMORPG Matthew Mihaly
- Ten commandments for the next MMORPG AR Schleicher
- Ten commandments for the next MMORPG Mud Imp
- Ten Commandments for the next MMORPG The Inquisition Administrator
- Ten commandments for the next MMORPG David Wruck
- MudDev FAQ 2 Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ 2 Wes Connell
- The great myth of broadband Brian Green
- The great myth of broadband Madrona Tree
- The great myth of broadband Par Winzell
- The great myth of broadband John Bertoglio
- Effective use of the third dimension Richard Ross
- Effective use of the third dimension adam@treyarch.com
- Effective use of the third dimension Richard Tew
- Ten commandments for players of the next MMORPG Ananda Dawnsinger
- Free Speech Jeff Freeman
- Free Speech Ananda Dawnsinger
- Free Speech Par Winzell
- Free Speech Jeff Freeman
- Free Speech Jon A. Lambert
- Free Speech Schubert, Damion
- Free Speech Matthew Mihaly
- Free Speech Jessica Mulligan
- Free Speech Darren Henderson
- Free Speech kitkat@marcus.pants.nu
- Free Speech Gary Whitten
- Free Speech J C Lawrence
- Free Speech Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Free Speech Jeremy Hovance
- RPGPlanet article: The Evils of Character Progression Raph Koster
- More storytelling - And also game secrets Chris Lloyd
- Marketing text-based games (was: Ten Commandments for the next MMORPG) Andrew Ritchie
- java performance questions (fwd) J C Lawrence
- MUDs as art (was A footnote to Procedural Storytelling) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUDs as art (was A footnote to Procedural Storytelling) Lee Sheldon
- MUDs as art (was A footnote to Procedural Storytelling) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Any hungry Java GUI programmers out there? Par Winzell
- Any hungry Java GUI programmers out there? Par Winzell
- Supporting multiple output formats Nolan Darilek
- The 10 basic rules of a good PvP system Raph Koster
- Player storytellers? Travis Nixon
- Thoughts about smarter Sims Jon A. Lambert
- Thoughts about smarter Sims J C Lawrence
- Thoughts about smarter Sims Jon A. Lambert
- Thoughts about smarter Sims Raph Koster
- Thoughts about smarter Sims Jon A. Lambert
- Thoughts about smarter Sims Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Thoughts about smarter Sims Jon A. Lambert
- Thoughts about smarter Sims Mordengaard
- Thoughts about smarter Sims Jon A. Lambert
- Thoughts about smarter Sims Justin Rogers
- Thoughts about smarter Sims Jon A. Lambert
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Brian Green
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Zak Jarvis
- Advancement considered harmful (long) J C Lawrence
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Zak Jarvis
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Raph Koster
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Zak Jarvis
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Charles Hughes
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Zak Jarvis
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Dave Rickey
- Advancement considered harmful (long) J C Lawrence
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Travis Nixon
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Miroslav Silovic
- Advancement considered harmful (long) Batir
- What I want, what players want Andrew Ritchie
- What I want, what players want Chris Jacobson
- What I want, what players want Jeff Freeman
- What I want, what players want Nicolai Hansen
- What I want, what players want Darren Henderson
- What I want, what players want adam@treyarch.com
- Domain Names and Trademarks Jon Morrow
- Domain Names and Trademarks J C Lawrence
- Domain Names and Trademarks Sellers, Michael
- Narratology WAS: Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- Narratology WAS: Self-Sufficient Worlds J C Lawrence
- Narratology WAS: Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- Narratology WAS: Self-Sufficient Worlds Christopher Allen
- narratology WAS Self-Sufficient Worlds Angela Ferraiolo
- FW: Advancement considered harmful (long) John Buehler
- Narratology and its application to VR, multi-player games, and the like J C Lawrence
- FW: Advancement considered harmful (long) John Buehler
- coordinate systems Richard Tew
- coordinate systems Jon Leonard
- coordinate systems Kerem 'Waster_' HADIMLI