April 2000
- [Open_Gaming_Moderated] Simplified License for Comment and Critique (fwd) J C Lawrence
- An introduction Brian Green
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Eli Stevens
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Ryan P.
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Erik Jarvi
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Eli Stevens
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Travis Casey
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Jeremy Hovance
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset adam@treyarch.com
- Old Topic: Playfulness in 3-D Spaces, done. Rudy Fink
- META: Topic List - 1999 Jon A. Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon A. Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Cynbe ru Taren
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Miroslav Silovic
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jay Carlson
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Derek Snider
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Holly Sommer
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Nick Shaffner
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis S. Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Quzah
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Todd McKimmey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Spin
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Richard Woolcock
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Miroslav Silovic
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon A. Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon Leonard
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Powell, Warren
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: DESIGN: XML? Jon A. Lambert
- PK / anti PK / justice? J. Coleman
- Neverwinter Nights Jeff Freeman
- J (was: 16K mud server competition !) Cynbe ru Taren
- J (was: 16K mud server competition !) Miroslav Silovic
- J (was: 16K mud server competition !) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Morality and Values Based Role Play in MMORPGs. Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- MUD-Dev request rejected (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev request rejected (fwd) adam@treyarch.com
- MUD-Dev request rejected (fwd) Jeff Freeman
- Orthogonality and invariants Miroslav Silovic
- Orthogonality and invariants cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Uptime numbers (was Orthogonality and invariants) Jay Carlson
- Schmuse J C Lawrence
- Article on WoC's 'Open Sourcing' D&D in Salon Christopher Allen
- Multilevel server concept Draymoor
- Multilevel server concept Tochiro
- Multilevel server concept Emil Eifrem
- Multilevel server concept Kristen L. Koster
- Multilevel server concept Brian Green
- Multilevel server concept Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Polls at Kanga.Nu claw@kanga.nu
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) David Bennett
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Matthew Mihaly
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) J C Lawrence
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Jon Lambert
- dealing with foul language Matthew Mihaly
- dealing with foul language Wes Connell
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Wes Connell
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Koster, Raph
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Matthew Mihaly
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Zak Jarvis
- dealing with foul language Darren Henderson
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language AR Schleicher
- dealing with foul language adam@treyarch.com
- Article on Proxes Christopher Allen
- Article on Proxes adam@treyarch.com
- Simulating Ancient Greece WAS: Same-Sex Marriage Zak Jarvis
- Simulating Ancient Greece WAS: Same-Sex Marriage Jon Lambert
- Simulating Ancient Greece WAS: Same-Sex Marriage Matthew Mihaly
- A little essay on economic efficiency Timothy Dang
- Same-Sex Marriage John Hopson
- Same-Sex Marriage Ananda Dawnsinger
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Brian Green
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Zak Jarvis
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul lang uage) Koster, Raph
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Brian Green
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Joe Andrieu
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Matthew Mihaly
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Joe Andrieu
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) adam@treyarch.com
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) J C Lawrence
- Player controller justice systems David Bennett
- Player controller justice systems Koster, Raph
- Player controller justice systems J C Lawrence
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Player controller justice systems Travis Nixon
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Player controller justice systems Timothy Dang
- Player controller justice systems Draymoor
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Player controller justice systems Phillip Lenhardt
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Family, was characters per account Daniel James
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Littlejohn
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Phillip Lenhardt
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Shawn Halpenny
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Littlejohn
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Littlejohn
- Family, was characters per account Jeff Freeman
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Jeff Freeman
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Family, was characters per account J C Lawrence
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Gender Restrictions was Same-Sex Marriage Jon Lambert
- Gender Restrictions was Same-Sex Marriage Nathan F Yospe
- Gender Restrictions was Same-Sex Marriage Jon Lambert
- Family, was characters per account J C Lawrence
- Family, was characters per account Phillip Lenhardt
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Scott London
- Family, was characters per account Jeff Freeman
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites F. Randall Farmer
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites maddog@best.com
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gamingsites Zak Jarvis
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Ryan Palacio
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popu lar gaming sites Sellers, Michael
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites maddog@best.com
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Wes Connell
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Ryan Palacio
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Travis Nixon
- [Meta] other activities Par Winzell
- [Meta] other activities Dominic J. Eidson
- [Meta] other activities Jeff Freeman
- History, background and religion Pileborg Joachim - FMT
- History, background and religion Kevin Scott London
- History, background and religion Matthew Mihaly
- History, background and religion Sanvean
- History, background and religion Sharon Mock
- History, background and religion Richard Ross
- History, background and religion Lovecraft
- DGD Description Christopher Allen
- [Meta] other activities Jeff Freeman
- [Meta] other activities Raph Koster
- [Meta] other activities Todd McKimmey
- [Meta] other activities Matthew Mihaly
- [Meta] other activities Wes Connell
- Personal Interest vs. Marketing Decision WAS dealing with foul language Zak Jarvis
- Threads on Meta that should be on MUD-Dev J C Lawrence
- [Meta] Threads on Meta that should be on MUD-Dev J C Lawrence
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran S. Patrick Gallaty
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran John Bertoglio
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran S. Patrick Gallaty
- Family, was characters per account Chris Lloyd
- [LONG] A slightly different perspective on Real money in Virtual worlds. Zak Jarvis
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Frank Crowell
- banning the sale of items Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Jeff Freeman
- banning the sale of items Jeff Freeman
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Tess Lowe
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Schubert, Damion
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Ananda Dawnsinger
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Wes Connell
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Zak Jarvis
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Zak Jarvis
- banning the sale of items J. Coleman
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Tess Lowe
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Christopher Allen
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Kristen L. Koster
- banning the sale of items Christopher Allen
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items J C Lawrence
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items adam@treyarch.com
- banning the sale of items Kevin Littlejohn
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Kian Wilcox
- banning the sale of items Timothy Dang
- Institutionalizing human behavior (was banning the sale of items) Sellers, Michael
- Institutionalizing human behavior (was banning the sale of items) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran Brian Green
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran John Bertoglio
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran Wes Connell
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran J C Lawrence
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran Jeff Freeman
- [Meta] Of general interest maybe Jeff Freeman
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Raph Koster
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Matthew Mihaly
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Jeff Freeman
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Jeff Freeman
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Geoffrey Z.
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Schubert, Damion
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) J C Lawrence
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Nathan F Yospe
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) F. Randall Farmer
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Travis Casey
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Lee Sheldon
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Wes Connell
- DDoS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- /. Article about EQ sales ban Nathan F Yospe
- /. Article about EQ sales ban Raph Koster
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Ananda Dawnsinger
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Raph Koster
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Dr Richard A. Bartle
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Institutionalizing human behavior (was banning the sale of items) Xavier Plagnal
- meets Matthew Mihaly
- Quoting. J C Lawrence
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" Raph Koster
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" Richard Woolcock
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" F. Randall Farmer
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" Sellers, Michael
- Institutionalizing human behavior Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Christopher Allen
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Erik Jarvi
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars John Bertoglio
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jon Lambert
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jon Lambert
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jeff Freeman
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jeff Freeman
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Eli Stevens
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis S. Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jeff Freeman
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis S. Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Par Winzell
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Christopher Allen
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Par Winzell
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Phillip Lenhardt
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Spawning and quests Spin
- Spawning and quests Chris Lloyd
- Spawning and quests adam@treyarch.com
- (no subject) J C Lawrence
- E3 and potential meet? Ryan Palacio
- E3 and potential meet? J C Lawrence
- Scott Guzman on RGM.Admin J C Lawrence
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Raph Koster
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Ananda Dawnsinger
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Erik Jarvi
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Ryan Palacio
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Erik Jarvi
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Dmitri Zagidulin
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Phillip Lenhardt
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Raph Koster
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Ananda Dawnsinger
- Quests - allocative efficiency Lovecraft
- Common Law [was: Declaration of the Rights of Avatars] Christopher Allen
- Common Law [was: Declaration of the Rights of Avatars] Christopher Allen
- AI, Bots, Scripting. Veygoth
- AI, Bots, Scripting. David Bennett
- Quests Raph Koster
- Alignment Richard Ross
- ADMIN: Digest size J C Lawrence
- Circular Alignment [was: Alignment] Christopher Allen
- Value of Characters [was: Quote from a Simutronics developer] Christopher Allen
- MUD-Dev request rejected Schubert, Damion
- MUD-Dev request rejected John Szeder
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Christopher Allen
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Erik Jarvi
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Christopher Allen
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Matthew Mihaly
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Brian Green
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Matthew Mihaly
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Brian Green
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Par Winzell
- ALife? was [Personal Interest vs. Marketing Decision WAS RE:...] Greg Underwood
- incremental revenue discussion Matthew Mihaly
- new list Kevin Littlejohn
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Ryan Palacio
- Justifying twinking F. Randall Farmer
- Justifying twinking Ryan Palacio
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking Todd McKimmey
- Justifying twinking Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- Justifying twinking Jeff Freeman
- Justifying twinking Schubert, Damion
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Travis S. Casey
- Justifying twinking John Bertoglio
- Justifying twinking Travis Nixon
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Travis S. Casey
- Justifying twinking Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking J C Lawrence
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking Travis Casey
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Sellers, Michael
- Justifying twinking Mud Imp
- Justifying twinking Brian Green
- Justifying twinking John Bertoglio
- Justifying twinking Ananda Dawnsinger
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking Travis Casey
- Justifying twinking Timothy Dang
- Justifying twinking jolson@micron.net
- Justifying twinking Travis Nixon
- Justifying twinking John Bertoglio
- Justifying twinking jolson@micron.net
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking Schubert, Damion
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Geoffrey Z.
- Justifying twinking Justin Lockshaw
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking S. Patrick Gallaty
- Justifying twinking Frank Crowell
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Game Law Example (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Game Law Example (fwd) Travis S. Casey
- Fun and Learning in games Draymoor
- Fun and Learning in games Schubert, Damion
- Fun and Learning in games adam@treyarch.com
- Re PRIVATE Justifying twinking Kristen L. Koster
- Re PRIVATE Justifying twinking Josh Olson
- Database back ends dwacks@saleslogix.com
- Database back ends Greg Underwood
- Database back ends Quiet
- Database back ends Kevin Littlejohn
- defeating twinking through game mechanics S. Patrick Gallaty
- defeating twinking through game mechanics jolson@micron.net
- defeating twinking through game mechanics adam@treyarch.com
- defeating twinking through game mechanics S. Patrick Gallaty
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Erik Jarvi
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Travis S. Casey
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Travis Casey
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- defeating twinking through game mechanics J C Lawrence
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" F. Randall Farmer
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Christopher Allen
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Brian Green
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" adam@treyarch.com
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Ananda Dawnsinger
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Charles Hughes
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Sellers, Michael
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Charles Hughes
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" adam@treyarch.com
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" stoddart@slip.net
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Eli Stevens
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" PLAGNAL XAVIER
- Massive Connections Christopher Kohnert
- Massive Connections Kevin Scott London
- Massive Connections Christopher Kohnert
- MUD-Dev request rejected Jeff Freeman
- interesting article on world size and finance Fred Clift
- interesting article on world size and finance J C Lawrence
- interesting article on world size and finance John Bertoglio
- [Mud-Dev]: Sushi Mud Todd McKimmey
- [Mud-Dev]: Sushi Mud guru@thebay.plus.com
- LA Times article: Virtual Loot for Real Cash Ryan Palacio
- LA Times article: Virtual Loot for Real Cash J C Lawrence
- Alignment (very long) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Alignment (very long) Christopher Allen
- Alignment (very long) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Alignment (very long) Kevin Littlejohn
- Alignment (very long) Travis Casey
- Alignment (very long) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Character persistance, was Family, was characters per account JC
- Character persistance, was Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) J C Lawrence
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Charles
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) J C Lawrence
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Chris Jacobson
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Richard Ross
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Lee Sheldon
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Matt Chatterley
- BioWare to demonstrate Neverwinter Nights at E3 F. Randall Farmer
- BioWare to demonstrate Neverwinter Nights at E3 Jeff Freeman
- BioWare to demonstrate Neverwinter Nights at E3 Travis Casey
- ColdStore. Belated response from a developer. colin@field.medicine.adelaide.edu.au
- ColdStore. Belated response from a developer. Miroslav Silovic
- ColdStore. Belated response from a developer. Jay Carlson
- ColdStore. Belated response from a developer. colin@field.medicine.adelaide.edu.au
> Miroslav Silovic <silovic@zesoi.fer.hr> writes:
> colin@field.medicine.adelaide.edu.au writes:
>
> > ColdStore compresses small integers too.
>
> Could you post a bit more about ColdStore internals on this list?
ColdStore's a layered system. At layer0 you have a locale-based allocator
which works fairly hard to keep regions allocated to a given locale on a
minimal number of pages (theory being to reduce hard page faults.) At layer1,
you have Yet Another Class Library, with collection objects, BigInts, Strings,
whatever else you believe should be a primitive datatype for whatever you're
building above it. At layer2, are objects designed to support language
interpretation and such.
From layer1 up, the objects inherit from a primitive Data class which exports
a virtual protocol based broadly on Python's API. The idea here is that you
write any useful datatype which you want to use above here, and coerce its
interface to look like Data's, and have immediate access to it from languages
implemented at layer2. Layer1 objects written to date have been optimised
wherever possible to use layer0's allocation tactics to maximise spatial
locality of reference.
Layer1 uses a Slot smartpointer to reference Data instances, maintaining
refcounts and such. It additionally exploits the fact that qvmm longword
aligns all allocations to tag short integers (31bits) and transparently
converts them to pool-allocated Integers when they need to be operated on.
> I was under impression that it used plain virtual memory to talk to
> hardware (thus getting speed).
>
> > I'd have thought the storage between Cold and ColdStore was
> > comparable.
I meant the amount of space between Genesis and ColdStore would be
approximately comparable, unless you've changed the marshalling code from the
original coldmud (and it was pretty optimal.)
> The last version of Cold storage is my work, and one I'm not
> particularily proud of (okay, this is an understatement. In actuality,
> it's a brown paper bag quality code - I want to wear one over my head
> when I think about certain things in there). :)
>
> > ColdStore doesn't set out to make C++ programming safe, because
> > that's impossible. It sets out to provide a toolkit for supporting
> > higher-level interpreted languages in which one would write
> > applications.
>
> The website suggested it was C++ persistent store system, I was
> replying under that assumption.
It is a C++ persistent store, with all the baggage that C++ brings.
> > It's certainly necessary to thoroughly engineer the C++ classes you
> > use and to avoid world-stopping bugs, however Miro's argument could
> > apply to any complex piece of code upon which your world depends,
> > the o/s, the db backend.
>
> 'Don't write buggy code' is not something I'd recommend to a
> programmer and expect gratitude. :)
Again, if there's a bug somewhere in (say) MOO server, or in Genesis server,
or in FreeBSD or Linux or Solaris o/s, it's going to have an adverse impact on
the service run ... ColdStore C++ objects are at that level, below the
application level.
> > One could certainly use the toconstructor() facility for changing
> > the raw layout of objects.
> >
> > This would be painful, however, and one would be well advised to
> > think through the raw layout of lowest level objects before
> > committing them to persistent store.
>
> Assuming that ColdStore is not meant to store C++ objects, but only be
> used with an interpreter to keep it in check, this makes sense.
ColdStore can be used at layer0, to store C++ objects, or at layer1 to mediate
between the storage of C++ objects and the provision of those C++ objects to
an interpreted language. It's really up to the application developer. I'd
probably recommend either the use of an interpreted language, or the use of
Java or something to generate the native code used to manipulate those objects
stored in C++.
> > >- db format is highly non-portable. It's not just architecture dependant,
> > it's C++ compiler dependant (as object layout may change).
> >
> > Certainly. It was a design decision to localise the cost of moving
> > between architectures to the time when one might wish to actually
> > move them, rather than seek to support an abstracted/portable format
> > for which one pays on each access.
> >
> > Many database formats are not immediately/binary portable, usually the
> > databases have to be serialised or marshalled before moving them.
>
> Does ColdStore support this, or is it supposed to be provided by an
> application sitting on top of it?
I've followed this convention in all the layer1 objects I've written, the
toconstructor() method is present in the virtual protocol supported by layer1,
if people want to write objects which they don't want to serialise, that's
their lookout. I probably wouldn't choose to use them, though.
Another alternative presenting itself more recently is the use of the openc++
preprocessor (which we use) to autogenerate serialising/deserialising code.
It's possible, but it's a long way from the top of my priority queue.
> > I was in the process of writing it right out in favour of GC, when
> > someone pointed out to me that refcounting is a great storage
> > optimiser - ColdStore collections and vector types share all
> > substructure, and implement Copy On Write semantics on low level
> > objects.
>
> This is acceptable if you already decided to pay the penalty for
> having an interpreter in the first place.
Sure. Look, I personally would write C++ directly to the store, because I'm
really comfortable with it. I like it. I wrote a lot of it ... On the other
hand, I really think you could do worse than using some interpreted language
to implement the functionality you want, work out what needs to be written
more efficiently, and then sink it lower down, in C++. <-- The usual
scripting language justification.
> > I don't see the problem with using inline assembly for atomic
> > increments, that's what inline assembly is for. It's what we use,
> > nicely wrapped in a Counter class.
>
> *.......* (insert any number of sounds here)
(insert colorful finger gestures here)
> > Maximising data locality by sharing substructure will always tend to
> > increase contention between threads at the same time as it tends to
> > decrease page faults. This is a classic trade-off: throughput
> > vs. responsiveness. Are networks really fast enough, yet, that
> > response-lag is an issue?
> >
> > As long as the time taken to swap a page from disk is much longer
> > than a thread context switch, I'll tend to worry more about locality
> > than thread performance, most particularly since most of large MUD
> > architectures don't even have real multitasking.
>
> Okay, I think this is the central issue.
>
> Yes, textual MUDs are bandwidth-bound. However, this list is not only
> about textual MUDs. Also, I think that bandwidth-bound MUDs are not
> interesting any more (because even MOO, once that memory became cheap,
> CPUs became fast, and codebase became slightly more optimised than it
> used to be, is now bandwidth-bound - so why bother inventing a better
> mousetrap?)
I didn't really mean throughput as in network bandwidth, but more disk swap
bandwidth.
ColdStore arose from an observation that coldmud was reputed to be faster than
MOO even though coldmud had to go through a serialisation/deserialisation
whenever objects were swapped between disk and memory. We concluded that the
disparity was due to an accidental feature of coldmud, that it would unpack
objects into a minimal set of pages in the process address space, while MOO
(seemingly by design) scatters its object across the whole address space.
The analysis lead us to suppose that maximising spatial locality of reference
was a highly desirable performance enhancement.
I guess I'm contending that it doesn't matter how little contention there is
for shared resources, if those resources are scattered all over the disk in
little pieces which have to be reassembled while the threads wait for them to
be swapped back in.
> Now, if you have a predictive client (one that keeps some state, and
> knows how to evolve and display it), you can just send diffs from the
> server, saving LOTS of bandwidth. In that case, the interesting things
> become possible, but the server bottleneck shifts from bandwidth to
> processing. Refer to this list's archive for examples.
> Notice about paging - you have to write to the page each time you
> increase the refcount, and refcount may get increased just by passing
> pointers around.
Writing to a page doesn't necessarily entail writing it back to disk ASAP. If
it does happen to be so in existing kernels, then I guess I'll have to modify
the kernel.
> This is different from GC schemes, where you only
> touch the pages you really want to write to (the tradeoff being the
> need for write barrier, with any decent GC). Then there is robustness
> of GC compared to refcounting (as reported by people involved with
> Mozilla project). Refcounting certainly makes sense if the ammount of
> the code in native language (C++, in this case) is small - but I don't
> like assuming that for a low level system I'd like to see in wide use.
Yes. We're trying to minimise low level code.
> > Additionally, the authors of Texas don't answer email, the build
> > process entails heavy use of a hacked gdb (using STABS to generate
> > object interpretation code for swizzling) and Texas has no support
> > for dynamically loading new objects into a store.
>
> I actually meant to say that Texas is a cool concept whose
> implementation desperately needs a complete rewrite, preferably by a
> team of programmers (rather than a team of computer scientists). :)
Computer scientists, having proven the concept, move on and leave we poor
proggers to pick up the pieces.
Anyway, it occurred to me after discussing your comments with others on the
ColdStore team (skeptopotamus, specifically) that it'd be entirely possible to
use the Texas swizzling concept to provide a much larger second-level store,
with the unswizzled objects relocated to reside in ColdStore (as a kind of
cache.)
What it'd buy you is a much larger address space - Texas object ids are
32bits, but can be mapped onto a much larger store. You'd still take the
performance hit of the segv overhead, and unswizzling, but it'd be an
interesting hybrid.
Perhaps you could do some kind of magical DB backing store and use coldstore
as a general cache ... don't know, I'll jump that (1.75 Gb) barrier when I
come to it.
> To conclude, within the assumptions you decided to work with,
> ColdStore seems cool (modulo my disagreement with use of inline
> assembly). But I tend to work under VERY different assumptions. :)
I'm all for mosaic solutions. May your assumptions lead you to interesting new problems.
Colin.
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