April 2000
- [Open_Gaming_Moderated] Simplified License for Comment and Critique (fwd) J C Lawrence
- An introduction Brian Green
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Eli Stevens
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Ryan P.
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Erik Jarvi
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Eli Stevens
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Travis Casey
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Jeremy Hovance
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset adam@treyarch.com
- Old Topic: Playfulness in 3-D Spaces, done. Rudy Fink
- META: Topic List - 1999 Jon A. Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon A. Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Cynbe ru Taren
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Miroslav Silovic
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jay Carlson
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Derek Snider
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Holly Sommer
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Nick Shaffner
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis S. Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Quzah
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Todd McKimmey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Spin
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Richard Woolcock
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Miroslav Silovic
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon A. Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon Leonard
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Powell, Warren
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: DESIGN: XML? Jon A. Lambert
- PK / anti PK / justice? J. Coleman
- Neverwinter Nights Jeff Freeman
- J (was: 16K mud server competition !) Cynbe ru Taren
- J (was: 16K mud server competition !) Miroslav Silovic
- J (was: 16K mud server competition !) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Morality and Values Based Role Play in MMORPGs. Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- MUD-Dev request rejected (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev request rejected (fwd) adam@treyarch.com
- MUD-Dev request rejected (fwd) Jeff Freeman
- Orthogonality and invariants Miroslav Silovic
- Orthogonality and invariants cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Uptime numbers (was Orthogonality and invariants) Jay Carlson
- Schmuse J C Lawrence
- Article on WoC's 'Open Sourcing' D&D in Salon Christopher Allen
- Multilevel server concept Draymoor
- Multilevel server concept Tochiro
- Multilevel server concept Emil Eifrem
- Multilevel server concept Kristen L. Koster
- Multilevel server concept Brian Green
- Multilevel server concept Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Polls at Kanga.Nu claw@kanga.nu
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) David Bennett
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Matthew Mihaly
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) J C Lawrence
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Jon Lambert
- dealing with foul language Matthew Mihaly
- dealing with foul language Wes Connell
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Wes Connell
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Koster, Raph
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Matthew Mihaly
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Zak Jarvis
- dealing with foul language Darren Henderson
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language AR Schleicher
- dealing with foul language adam@treyarch.com
- Article on Proxes Christopher Allen
- Article on Proxes adam@treyarch.com
- Simulating Ancient Greece WAS: Same-Sex Marriage Zak Jarvis
- Simulating Ancient Greece WAS: Same-Sex Marriage Jon Lambert
- Simulating Ancient Greece WAS: Same-Sex Marriage Matthew Mihaly
- A little essay on economic efficiency Timothy Dang
- Same-Sex Marriage John Hopson
- Same-Sex Marriage Ananda Dawnsinger
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Brian Green
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Zak Jarvis
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul lang uage) Koster, Raph
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Brian Green
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Joe Andrieu
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Matthew Mihaly
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Joe Andrieu
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) adam@treyarch.com
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) J C Lawrence
- Player controller justice systems David Bennett
- Player controller justice systems Koster, Raph
- Player controller justice systems J C Lawrence
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Player controller justice systems Travis Nixon
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Player controller justice systems Timothy Dang
- Player controller justice systems Draymoor
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Player controller justice systems Phillip Lenhardt
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Family, was characters per account Daniel James
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Littlejohn
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Phillip Lenhardt
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Shawn Halpenny
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Littlejohn
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Littlejohn
- Family, was characters per account Jeff Freeman
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Jeff Freeman
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Family, was characters per account J C Lawrence
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Gender Restrictions was Same-Sex Marriage Jon Lambert
- Gender Restrictions was Same-Sex Marriage Nathan F Yospe
- Gender Restrictions was Same-Sex Marriage Jon Lambert
- Family, was characters per account J C Lawrence
- Family, was characters per account Phillip Lenhardt
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Scott London
- Family, was characters per account Jeff Freeman
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites F. Randall Farmer
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites maddog@best.com
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gamingsites Zak Jarvis
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Ryan Palacio
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popu lar gaming sites Sellers, Michael
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites maddog@best.com
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Wes Connell
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Ryan Palacio
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Travis Nixon
- [Meta] other activities Par Winzell
- [Meta] other activities Dominic J. Eidson
- [Meta] other activities Jeff Freeman
- History, background and religion Pileborg Joachim - FMT
- History, background and religion Kevin Scott London
- History, background and religion Matthew Mihaly
- History, background and religion Sanvean
- History, background and religion Sharon Mock
- History, background and religion Richard Ross
- History, background and religion Lovecraft
- DGD Description Christopher Allen
- [Meta] other activities Jeff Freeman
- [Meta] other activities Raph Koster
- [Meta] other activities Todd McKimmey
- [Meta] other activities Matthew Mihaly
- [Meta] other activities Wes Connell
- Personal Interest vs. Marketing Decision WAS dealing with foul language Zak Jarvis
- Threads on Meta that should be on MUD-Dev J C Lawrence
- [Meta] Threads on Meta that should be on MUD-Dev J C Lawrence
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran S. Patrick Gallaty
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran John Bertoglio
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran S. Patrick Gallaty
- Family, was characters per account Chris Lloyd
- [LONG] A slightly different perspective on Real money in Virtual worlds. Zak Jarvis
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Frank Crowell
- banning the sale of items Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Jeff Freeman
- banning the sale of items Jeff Freeman
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Tess Lowe
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Schubert, Damion
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Ananda Dawnsinger
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Wes Connell
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Zak Jarvis
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Zak Jarvis
- banning the sale of items J. Coleman
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Tess Lowe
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Christopher Allen
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Kristen L. Koster
- banning the sale of items Christopher Allen
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items J C Lawrence
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items adam@treyarch.com
- banning the sale of items Kevin Littlejohn
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Kian Wilcox
- banning the sale of items Timothy Dang
- Institutionalizing human behavior (was banning the sale of items) Sellers, Michael
- Institutionalizing human behavior (was banning the sale of items) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran Brian Green
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran John Bertoglio
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran Wes Connell
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran J C Lawrence
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran Jeff Freeman
- [Meta] Of general interest maybe Jeff Freeman
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Raph Koster
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Matthew Mihaly
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Jeff Freeman
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Jeff Freeman
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Geoffrey Z.
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Schubert, Damion
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) J C Lawrence
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Nathan F Yospe
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) F. Randall Farmer
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Travis Casey
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Lee Sheldon
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Wes Connell
- DDoS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- /. Article about EQ sales ban Nathan F Yospe
- /. Article about EQ sales ban Raph Koster
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Ananda Dawnsinger
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Raph Koster
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Dr Richard A. Bartle
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Institutionalizing human behavior (was banning the sale of items) Xavier Plagnal
- meets Matthew Mihaly
- Quoting. J C Lawrence
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" Raph Koster
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" Richard Woolcock
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" F. Randall Farmer
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" Sellers, Michael
- Institutionalizing human behavior Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Christopher Allen
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Erik Jarvi
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars John Bertoglio
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jon Lambert
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jon Lambert
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jeff Freeman
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jeff Freeman
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Eli Stevens
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis S. Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jeff Freeman
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis S. Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Par Winzell
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Christopher Allen
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Par Winzell
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Phillip Lenhardt
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Spawning and quests Spin
- Spawning and quests Chris Lloyd
- Spawning and quests adam@treyarch.com
- (no subject) J C Lawrence
- E3 and potential meet? Ryan Palacio
- E3 and potential meet? J C Lawrence
- Scott Guzman on RGM.Admin J C Lawrence
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Raph Koster
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Ananda Dawnsinger
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Erik Jarvi
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Ryan Palacio
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Erik Jarvi
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Dmitri Zagidulin
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Phillip Lenhardt
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Raph Koster
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Ananda Dawnsinger
- Quests - allocative efficiency Lovecraft
- Common Law [was: Declaration of the Rights of Avatars] Christopher Allen
- Common Law [was: Declaration of the Rights of Avatars] Christopher Allen
- AI, Bots, Scripting. Veygoth
- AI, Bots, Scripting. David Bennett
- Quests Raph Koster
- Alignment Richard Ross
- ADMIN: Digest size J C Lawrence
- Circular Alignment [was: Alignment] Christopher Allen
- Value of Characters [was: Quote from a Simutronics developer] Christopher Allen
- MUD-Dev request rejected Schubert, Damion
- MUD-Dev request rejected John Szeder
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Christopher Allen
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Erik Jarvi
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Christopher Allen
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Matthew Mihaly
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Brian Green
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Matthew Mihaly
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Brian Green
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Par Winzell
- ALife? was [Personal Interest vs. Marketing Decision WAS RE:...] Greg Underwood
- incremental revenue discussion Matthew Mihaly
- new list Kevin Littlejohn
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Ryan Palacio
- Justifying twinking F. Randall Farmer
- Justifying twinking Ryan Palacio
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking Todd McKimmey
- Justifying twinking Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- Justifying twinking Jeff Freeman
- Justifying twinking Schubert, Damion
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Travis S. Casey
- Justifying twinking John Bertoglio
- Justifying twinking Travis Nixon
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Travis S. Casey
- Justifying twinking Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking J C Lawrence
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking Travis Casey
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Sellers, Michael
- Justifying twinking Mud Imp
- Justifying twinking Brian Green
- Justifying twinking John Bertoglio
- Justifying twinking Ananda Dawnsinger
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking Travis Casey
- Justifying twinking Timothy Dang
- Justifying twinking jolson@micron.net
- Justifying twinking Travis Nixon
- Justifying twinking John Bertoglio
- Justifying twinking jolson@micron.net
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking Schubert, Damion
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Geoffrey Z.
- Justifying twinking Justin Lockshaw
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking S. Patrick Gallaty
- Justifying twinking Frank Crowell
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Game Law Example (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Game Law Example (fwd) Travis S. Casey
- Fun and Learning in games Draymoor
- Fun and Learning in games Schubert, Damion
- Fun and Learning in games adam@treyarch.com
- Re PRIVATE Justifying twinking Kristen L. Koster
- Re PRIVATE Justifying twinking Josh Olson
- Database back ends dwacks@saleslogix.com
- Database back ends Greg Underwood
- Database back ends Quiet
- Database back ends Kevin Littlejohn
- defeating twinking through game mechanics S. Patrick Gallaty
- defeating twinking through game mechanics jolson@micron.net
- defeating twinking through game mechanics adam@treyarch.com
- defeating twinking through game mechanics S. Patrick Gallaty
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Erik Jarvi
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Travis S. Casey
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Travis Casey
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- defeating twinking through game mechanics J C Lawrence
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" F. Randall Farmer
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Christopher Allen
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Brian Green
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" adam@treyarch.com
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Ananda Dawnsinger
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Charles Hughes
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Sellers, Michael
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Charles Hughes
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" adam@treyarch.com
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" stoddart@slip.net
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Eli Stevens
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" PLAGNAL XAVIER
- Massive Connections Christopher Kohnert
- Massive Connections Kevin Scott London
- Massive Connections Christopher Kohnert
- MUD-Dev request rejected Jeff Freeman
- interesting article on world size and finance Fred Clift
- interesting article on world size and finance J C Lawrence
- interesting article on world size and finance John Bertoglio
- [Mud-Dev]: Sushi Mud Todd McKimmey
- [Mud-Dev]: Sushi Mud guru@thebay.plus.com
- LA Times article: Virtual Loot for Real Cash Ryan Palacio
- LA Times article: Virtual Loot for Real Cash J C Lawrence
- Alignment (very long) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Alignment (very long) Christopher Allen
- Alignment (very long) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Alignment (very long) Kevin Littlejohn
- Alignment (very long) Travis Casey
- Alignment (very long) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
Travis Casey said:
> Well, I'd gotten most of the way through writing a long reply when I
> got to these two paragraphs. (Note to self -- read all the way
> through long posts *before* beginning replies to them.)
>
I imagine I would have still found your long reply very interesting.
> I think that these two problems would most likely come up too much to
> allow an automatic implementation of a system like this very useful.
> To really judge someone's actions, you need full knowledge of the
> context of them -- what that character knows/believes about the world
> around him/her, what's happened previously to the character, etc.
>
I agree completely. However, it is precisely this context which is missing in
MMORPGs, due primarily to the transient nature of characters as well as to the
lack of communication between characters. I _don't_ know what a character
knows/believes about the world around him/her. Furthermore, even if I did know
something of the character's previous actions, there is nothing in place which
would encourage the character to be consistent, so I am left without an adequate
way of predicting future actions. I am trying to find a way to fill in some of
these blanks.
> To go over the two examples you gave quickly:
>
> > Once we give every character a values profile, the next step is to give each
> > significant action in the game an appropriate profile as well. Knocking
another
> > character unconscious and taking a small amount of gold from them might
result
> > in a values profile of H-1, W-1. Killing someone from your own town and
> > removing from their body a priceless gem might result in H-5, W-4, P-3. To
find
> > out how well an action lines up with a characters stated value, you could
simply
> > multiply the value categories of the person and the action and sum the
results.
> > If Bubba the merchant, with the values given in the example, were to kill
> > someone from his own town and remove from their body a priceless gem, the
math
> > would look like this:
>
> I can hit a lot of variables just in these two examples that could
> affect the profiles given:
>
> - What if that "small amount of gold" was all the money the first
> character had, and he needed it desperately (say, to pay off a debt
> so he won't go to prison) -- and the robber knows this? Wouldn't
> that reasonably give it a worse values profile? What if that were
> true but the robber *didn't* know?
I'd actually had some of these same thoughts. It could indeed be more accurate
to base the morality of the action (as it pertains to wealth values) on a ratio
of money stolen from the mark compared to money owned by the mark rather than
simply on money stolen. This could actually promote "Robin Hood" role-play.
This is especially true if generosity (the giving side of wealth values) was
calculated in a similar manner. So, robbing a certain amount of gold from the
rich could be rated W-1, while turning and giving the exact same amount of gold
to the poor could be rated W+3. Given a Robin Hood who leaned toward generosity
(positive wealth profile), over time, such activity would serve to increase
skills more than they were decreased. Perhaps this could be abused, but it
sounds like wonderfully interesting opportunity for role-play to me.
>
> - In the second example, what if the gem is being stolen for some
> other reason than money? E.g., what if I'm stealing it *back* from
> someone who stole it from me? What if it's a crown jewel, and I'm
> a guardsman who knows the person who has it is the thief?
Hmmm...good points. Let's see. What if there is some sort of ownership flag
that is not simply an exact reflection of who actually posesses the item? In
other words, if the gem is "mine" then taking it from a thief is not too
different than taking it from a safe in my house, so greed is not at issue. On
the other hand, the manner in which I choose to take the item back from the
thief might have implications wrt other values I hold. If I value life and I
choose to kill the thief to get back my gem, my actions do not reflect my
values. (How do I know that the character with my gem did not unwittingly buy
the stolen property from the real thief?) If I am a thief myself with little
regard for local laws (perhaps justice/anarchy is a strong candidate for an
additional value to be added to profiles), then picking the (alleged) thief's
pocket would likely not contravene my own values in any way.
As it pertains to the guardsman, once again, an ownership flag could be helpful
(i.e. the gem is still "owned" by the crown). Also helpfull would be a
law-breaker flag set only for those who "knew" an individual had broken the law
(through reputation). Now the guardsman is acting on his value for keeping the
law and not on personal greed. (Of course, if he doesn't return the gem
promptly to its rightful owner, he might incur greed repercussions.) If the
guardsman didn't "know" that the induvidual with the gem was a lawbreaker, but
somehow observed that the individual posessed an item which belonged to the
crown, then, instead of beating him bloody, it would probably be more
appropriate to approach the individual and begin questioning him regarding how
the gem came into his posession.
>
> - In the second example, what if I don't know the person in question
> is from my own town? For that matter, why should I feel loyalty
> towards someone just because they're from the same town -- that's a
> hidden assumption there. If I was abused by the townspeople,
> branded a thief unjustly, and cast out by them, I may feel no
> loyalty towards them at all.
>
Yes. I didn't go into details, but loyalty would be based on a dynamic
relationship value. Perhaps something like this (which is taken from a post I
made to gamasutra):
----->begin quote:
I've already mentioned the need for tracking relationships to make
determinations about loyalty and morality. I'd thought to use R+3 to R-3 to
categorize relationships:
R+3 = deep commitment (blood bond, marriage, oaths, etc.)
R+2 = friendship (many things in common, share village of birth, moral views,
values, political ties, etc.)
R+1 = aquaintance (some things in common, countryman)
R+0 = neutral (no background or history of interaction, no obvious differences
or similarities in values and opinion)
R-1 = avoidance (some differences in values and opinion)
R-2 = ambivalence (many and important differences)
R-3 = mortal enemy (mutual hate based on diametrically opposed values)
Values, politics, morality, and history of interaction will all work together
along with approval rating to determine relationship.
<-----end quote:
Of course, actually tracking relationships based on these factors will be
non-trivial.
> What if I rob someone without knowing how much money they have?
> Should I get moved less towards "greed" because I was unlucky enough
> to choose a victim who didn't have much money? What if I just want to
> knock someone out and rob them, but accidentally kill them?
>
Hmmm...Robin Hood accidentally robs from the poor and gives to the rich? On the
one hand, I'm tempted to say that Robin Hood should be more careful in selecting
his victims, especially if he considers himself a generous soul, so let him
suffer the consequences of his lack of knowledge. But perhaps this is too
harsh?
I think that it would be a good idea to not let anyone be killed accidentally.
Especially if there is any type of permanance to death (which I favor).
> I could go on in this vein, but I think the point is clear already.
>
> A second concern -- not all players are ready to define their
> character's personality in detail at character creation. On
> rec.games.frp.advocacy, they have the terms DAS and DIP -- Develop At
> Start and Develop In Play. These are two basic ways of developing a
> character's personality. Some people don't really know what they're
> character's personality is going to be like until they've played that
> character for a while. A system such as you describe is going to be a
> poor fit for that sort of player.
>
It wouldn't be impossible in this system to give the gamer the option to let his
values be determined from his play. Perhaps give no benefits or detriments to
skill gains for the first month, at which time the values are set by the actions
of the character over that time period.
> Since this has all been negative, it's probably sounding like I hate
> your idea. Honestly, I don't -- I'm just not sure that it'll work
> well in practice. However, I don't think that any purely mechanical
> alignment system can reflect the realities of how people are. :-(
>
I greatly appreciate the input and consider it constructive in all regards. I
totally agree that any _purely_ mechanical alignment system will never reflect
reality. But perhaps it can be said that no purely mechanical visualization
system will reflect reality either. The point is that we are engaged in an
attempt to create virtual worlds. It is my feeling that our virtual worlds lack
much more in terms of moral believability than they do in terms of visual
believability. Perhaps the alignment systems with which we begin to experiment
are not too different from the 2D sprites we started with in space-invaders, but
I think that they are an invaluable step in the right direction. The PK problem
will never be adequately addressed by better 3D graphics, but some type of moral
engine might bring the game into the balance of believability and fantasy that
we are seeking. The more I look into things, the more I see that it would be
easy to end up with a very bloated and complex system (of course, 3D graphics
aren't necessarily simple) but I see it as a beginning which might eventually
work itself out through endless refining to something quite elegant.
On a more practical note, this very inadequacy on the part of purely mechanical
systems prompted me to consider giving the gamer more power to affect
reputations by using five weighted slots (slot one has highest weighting and
slot five has lowest) to register approval or disapproval for characters based
on a value of their choosing. In fact, originally I had planned to have this as
the sole factor when determining reputation. However, as I searched for ways to
limit the abuse of this, Bryan Taggert pointed out to me that observed actions
could be reported automatically. I think that the two systems can complement
each other. Automated observation and reporting of actions to a "long list" can
keep the personal "short list" of each character from turning the reputation
system into a slander-fest, while the "short list" can make up for some of the
shortcomings that you point out regarding purely mechanical systems.
--Phinehas
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"All things are permissable,
but not all things are expedient."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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