April 2000
- [Open_Gaming_Moderated] Simplified License for Comment and Critique (fwd) J C Lawrence
- An introduction Brian Green
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Eli Stevens
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Ryan P.
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Erik Jarvi
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Eli Stevens
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Travis Casey
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset Jeremy Hovance
- An idea for breaking away from the HP/Mana mindset adam@treyarch.com
- Old Topic: Playfulness in 3-D Spaces, done. Rudy Fink
- META: Topic List - 1999 Jon A. Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon A. Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Cynbe ru Taren
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Miroslav Silovic
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jay Carlson
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Derek Snider
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Holly Sommer
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Nick Shaffner
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis S. Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Quzah
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Todd McKimmey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Spin
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Richard Woolcock
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Miroslav Silovic
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon A. Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon Leonard
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Powell, Warren
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Jon Lambert
- Fw: 16K mud server competition ! Travis Casey
- Fw: DESIGN: XML? Jon A. Lambert
- PK / anti PK / justice? J. Coleman
- Neverwinter Nights Jeff Freeman
- J (was: 16K mud server competition !) Cynbe ru Taren
- J (was: 16K mud server competition !) Miroslav Silovic
- J (was: 16K mud server competition !) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Morality and Values Based Role Play in MMORPGs. Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- MUD-Dev request rejected (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev request rejected (fwd) adam@treyarch.com
- MUD-Dev request rejected (fwd) Jeff Freeman
- Orthogonality and invariants Miroslav Silovic
- Orthogonality and invariants cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Uptime numbers (was Orthogonality and invariants) Jay Carlson
- Schmuse J C Lawrence
- Article on WoC's 'Open Sourcing' D&D in Salon Christopher Allen
- Multilevel server concept Draymoor
- Multilevel server concept Tochiro
- Multilevel server concept Emil Eifrem
- Multilevel server concept Kristen L. Koster
- Multilevel server concept Brian Green
- Multilevel server concept Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Polls at Kanga.Nu claw@kanga.nu
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) David Bennett
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Matthew Mihaly
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) J C Lawrence
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens) Jon Lambert
- dealing with foul language Matthew Mihaly
- dealing with foul language Wes Connell
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Wes Connell
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Koster, Raph
- dealing with foul language Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- dealing with foul language Matthew Mihaly
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language Zak Jarvis
- dealing with foul language Darren Henderson
- dealing with foul language Kristen L. Koster
- dealing with foul language AR Schleicher
- dealing with foul language adam@treyarch.com
- Article on Proxes Christopher Allen
- Article on Proxes adam@treyarch.com
- Simulating Ancient Greece WAS: Same-Sex Marriage Zak Jarvis
- Simulating Ancient Greece WAS: Same-Sex Marriage Jon Lambert
- Simulating Ancient Greece WAS: Same-Sex Marriage Matthew Mihaly
- A little essay on economic efficiency Timothy Dang
- Same-Sex Marriage John Hopson
- Same-Sex Marriage Ananda Dawnsinger
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Brian Green
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Zak Jarvis
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul lang uage) Koster, Raph
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Brian Green
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Joe Andrieu
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Matthew Mihaly
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Joe Andrieu
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) adam@treyarch.com
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Historical perspective (was: dealing with foul language) J C Lawrence
- Player controller justice systems David Bennett
- Player controller justice systems Koster, Raph
- Player controller justice systems J C Lawrence
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Player controller justice systems Travis Nixon
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Player controller justice systems Timothy Dang
- Player controller justice systems Draymoor
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Player controller justice systems Phillip Lenhardt
- Player controller justice systems Erik Jarvi
- Family, was characters per account Daniel James
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Littlejohn
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Phillip Lenhardt
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Shawn Halpenny
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Littlejohn
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Littlejohn
- Family, was characters per account Jeff Freeman
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Jeff Freeman
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Family, was characters per account J C Lawrence
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Gender Restrictions was Same-Sex Marriage Jon Lambert
- Gender Restrictions was Same-Sex Marriage Nathan F Yospe
- Gender Restrictions was Same-Sex Marriage Jon Lambert
- Family, was characters per account J C Lawrence
- Family, was characters per account Phillip Lenhardt
- Family, was characters per account Kevin Scott London
- Family, was characters per account Jeff Freeman
- Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites F. Randall Farmer
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites maddog@best.com
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gamingsites Zak Jarvis
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Ryan Palacio
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popu lar gaming sites Sellers, Michael
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites maddog@best.com
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Wes Connell
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Ryan Palacio
- Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites Travis Nixon
- [Meta] other activities Par Winzell
- [Meta] other activities Dominic J. Eidson
- [Meta] other activities Jeff Freeman
- History, background and religion Pileborg Joachim - FMT
- History, background and religion Kevin Scott London
- History, background and religion Matthew Mihaly
- History, background and religion Sanvean
- History, background and religion Sharon Mock
- History, background and religion Richard Ross
- History, background and religion Lovecraft
- DGD Description Christopher Allen
- [Meta] other activities Jeff Freeman
- [Meta] other activities Raph Koster
- [Meta] other activities Todd McKimmey
- [Meta] other activities Matthew Mihaly
- [Meta] other activities Wes Connell
- Personal Interest vs. Marketing Decision WAS dealing with foul language Zak Jarvis
- Threads on Meta that should be on MUD-Dev J C Lawrence
- [Meta] Threads on Meta that should be on MUD-Dev J C Lawrence
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran S. Patrick Gallaty
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran John Bertoglio
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran S. Patrick Gallaty
- Family, was characters per account Chris Lloyd
- [LONG] A slightly different perspective on Real money in Virtual worlds. Zak Jarvis
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Frank Crowell
- banning the sale of items Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Jeff Freeman
- banning the sale of items Jeff Freeman
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Tess Lowe
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Schubert, Damion
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Ananda Dawnsinger
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Wes Connell
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Zak Jarvis
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Zak Jarvis
- banning the sale of items J. Coleman
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Tess Lowe
- banning the sale of items Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- banning the sale of items Christopher Allen
- banning the sale of items Ryan Palacio
- banning the sale of items Kristen L. Koster
- banning the sale of items Christopher Allen
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items J C Lawrence
- banning the sale of items Par Winzell
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items adam@treyarch.com
- banning the sale of items Kevin Littlejohn
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Raph Koster
- banning the sale of items Matthew Mihaly
- banning the sale of items Kian Wilcox
- banning the sale of items Timothy Dang
- Institutionalizing human behavior (was banning the sale of items) Sellers, Michael
- Institutionalizing human behavior (was banning the sale of items) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran Brian Green
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran John Bertoglio
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran Wes Connell
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran J C Lawrence
- Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran Jeff Freeman
- [Meta] Of general interest maybe Jeff Freeman
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Raph Koster
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Matthew Mihaly
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Jeff Freeman
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Jeff Freeman
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Geoffrey Z.
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Schubert, Damion
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) J C Lawrence
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Nathan F Yospe
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) F. Randall Farmer
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Travis Casey
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Lee Sheldon
- Spawning and quests (was Sony ban) Wes Connell
- DDoS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- /. Article about EQ sales ban Nathan F Yospe
- /. Article about EQ sales ban Raph Koster
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Ananda Dawnsinger
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Raph Koster
- MudDev FAQ part 2 Dr Richard A. Bartle
- Family, was characters per account Raph Koster
- Institutionalizing human behavior (was banning the sale of items) Xavier Plagnal
- meets Matthew Mihaly
- Quoting. J C Lawrence
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" Raph Koster
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" Richard Woolcock
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" F. Randall Farmer
- Amy Jo Kim's "Community Building on the Web" Sellers, Michael
- Institutionalizing human behavior Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Christopher Allen
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Erik Jarvi
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars John Bertoglio
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jon Lambert
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jon Lambert
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jeff Freeman
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jeff Freeman
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Eli Stevens
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis S. Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Jeff Freeman
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Travis S. Casey
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Par Winzell
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Christopher Allen
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Par Winzell
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Phillip Lenhardt
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Raph Koster
- Spawning and quests Spin
- Spawning and quests Chris Lloyd
- Spawning and quests adam@treyarch.com
- (no subject) J C Lawrence
- E3 and potential meet? Ryan Palacio
- E3 and potential meet? J C Lawrence
- Scott Guzman on RGM.Admin J C Lawrence
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Raph Koster
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Ananda Dawnsinger
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Erik Jarvi
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Ryan Palacio
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Erik Jarvi
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Dmitri Zagidulin
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Phillip Lenhardt
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Raph Koster
- Quote from a Simutronics developer Ananda Dawnsinger
- Quests - allocative efficiency Lovecraft
- Common Law [was: Declaration of the Rights of Avatars] Christopher Allen
- Common Law [was: Declaration of the Rights of Avatars] Christopher Allen
- AI, Bots, Scripting. Veygoth
- AI, Bots, Scripting. David Bennett
- Quests Raph Koster
- Alignment Richard Ross
- ADMIN: Digest size J C Lawrence
- Circular Alignment [was: Alignment] Christopher Allen
- Value of Characters [was: Quote from a Simutronics developer] Christopher Allen
- MUD-Dev request rejected Schubert, Damion
- MUD-Dev request rejected John Szeder
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Christopher Allen
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Erik Jarvi
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Christopher Allen
- Skotos Proximity System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Matthew Mihaly
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Brian Green
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Matthew Mihaly
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Brian Green
- The scalability of paying for in-game things Par Winzell
- ALife? was [Personal Interest vs. Marketing Decision WAS RE:...] Greg Underwood
- incremental revenue discussion Matthew Mihaly
- new list Kevin Littlejohn
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Ryan Palacio
Raph Koster wrote:
> Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, a definition:
>
> TWINKING: the act of assisting a lower level player to advance in the game
> at a much faster rate than they would be able to achieve on their own, via
> the giving of experience (often via XP split systems inherent in grouping
> systems), items, goods, or money.
>
> This is the term as it is used in the context of EverQuest and many muds,
> but it is not the same as the classic definition used on social muds,
> wherein a TWINK was merely a jerk or perhaps a GoP player.
>
> There are several decision points at which a player makes a decision
whether
> to stick with a mud. The very first is what I'd call the "scratch 'n'
> sniff."
> [snip...]
>
> There's only so much you can do to improve the scratch n sniff. It's very
> audience dependent.
> [snip...].
>
> The second inflection point is after they start playing. Everyone has
horror
> stories about their first play session on a mud. The most frequent words
> tend to be "confusing" "directionless" "boring" "monotonous" etc. It has
> been empirically shown that meeting a friend in the first five minutes
> results in a MUCH higher chance of getting past this inflection point. In
> fact, I bet you have had this experience with a friend or colleague (I
know
> *I* have):
> [snip...]
Somehow, I get the distinct feeling that the "meeting a friend" does not
NEED to constitute "twinking", as per the definition above. The example
Raph provided of "institutionalized twinking" in AC extends from a
"heirarchical social structure". Therefore, is it merely the incentive for
experienced players to assist newbies, take them under their wing, and keep
them playing, or is it the newbies receipt of material goods that get the
newbies over "the hump"? In the paragraph above, the use of the words
"confusing", "directionless", "boring", "monotonous" suggests to me a
disorientation and/or lack of understanding of the environment. In turn,
this suggests an "ill-equipped" player, not an "ill-equipped" character.
Following that logic, it would appear that the learning curve to the
environment and establishment of a firm footing in the in-game world (be it
socially or with regards to the UI) is the issue. I guess I still fail to
see that inter-level interaction necessitates the transfer of goods, coin,
or xp. Knowledge is the ultimate resource in any game, and the tranfer of
this is what should be encouraged.
Let us now side-step to an issue that I believe weighs heavily upon the
"twinking" thread: Item Importance/Value.
In EQ, the players (and economy) are highly item dependant. Without them,
the character is at a distinct disadvantage. With them, characters can
achieve significantly more. The loss of a single item can represent a
significant blow to the character's performance. Without any restrictions
on the transfer of items, the balance of power can be significantly swayed.
It is therefore in the interests of EQ developers to minimize high level
items reaching low level hands. I will not embark on explaining the
methodology for means of restriction (utilized in EQ or otherwise), as that
is dependent on the results of this thread.
On the other hand, my limited experiences in UO (correct me if I am wrong
Raph), have shown me that items are of significantly less importance. The
ability to lose everything on your corpse prevents attachment to any item.
The potential for item breakage/decay coupled with the greater importance of
skill(s), effectively minimizes the symptoms of twinking.
I believe these represent two relative extremes, and whereever your own
game/design fall between these two will determine the ramifications and
magnitude of potential symptoms. On one hand, you have to minimize symptoms
through various forms of restriction to curb high-to-low level item trading.
On the other, you have a system where items, in general, lack permanence,
significant character impact, and significant RL value. (eBay typically
sells EQ items, and some accounts, whereas the UO selection primarily
consists of accounts, coin, and housing)
> Damion Schubert once said to me, "I want a newbie to see the coolest thing
> the game has to offer in the first session. Imagine if they saw a dragon
and
> helped kill it on the first day." (Very rough paraphrase here). He's dead
> right. That first play session, before they make that decision to
> emotionally invest in the game, needs to be awesome.
>
> Above all, it cannot be humiliating (cf Jonathan Baron's "Glory and
Shame").
> Killing rats is humiliating.
Let's not put the cart before the horse here. No doubt the first impression
must be significant and intrigue. However, in EQ, many landmark rewards
(such as viewing - much less killing - a dragon) are representative of lots
of invested time and effort. It's a "pay before you pump" system, but not
to the exclusion of occassionally providing new and intriguing things to
keep you "on track".
As for the humiliating part, it's all a matter of perception of power.
Starting by killing goblin whelps, or drudges, or skeletons, or some
creature perceived as potentially capable of fighting back provides an
initial level of power greater than that garnered by killing rats, bunnies,
etc. At the same time, some designs feel that the acquisition of skill and
power relative to a lesser state increases the sense of accomplishment.
Under this system, starting out hitting a practice dummy, killing
bunnies/rats, or chasing a chicken around a yard (ala Rocky I), is just a
matter of interactivity. Rats and bunnies do fight back, no matter how
ineffectually, providing an understand of combat in a minimum risk
environment. Sure you aren't gifted instant "hero" status. But similarly,
if you get through the initial stages/inflections, you probably see more
improvement relative to "ground zero" than if you had been started a rung or
two higher.
Power balance can be exactly identical in both instances - its just player
perception of the opponent. Not everyone requires a booster seat to sit at
the dinner table the first time, some just sit and deal with being a little
lower. Its not a matter that the food tastes any different when viewed from
the side or above, just how it is presented.
> What more welcoming thing is there than to get outfitted like a hero,
handed
> thousands of gold pieces, and invited along to kill a [insert critter you
> couldn't possibly tackle solo]? [snip...]
Doing it myself and having a complete self-satisfaction that I was able to
achieve it alone as compared to the "twinks" that needed friends/help to do
it. Call me masochistic. But I personally enjoy the trials and
tribulations each level or trial has to offer. And in the end, I know that
everything I accomplished or acquired was through my own hardships and
conquerings thereof. I have a pride in myself (RL) as well as my character.
> So twinking, to a point, actually extends player longevity. Now, if your
> game system is such that someone being twinked basically runs through all
of
> your game data in a far shorter timespan, then leaves, then yes, you have
a
> problem. But that means that the problem lies with your game system, and
not
> with the very natural tendency of humans to assist friends who are less
> fortunate.
I disagree with this overall. Let me turn this around a little bit.
"Does average Joe Gamer consistantly 'complete', 'finish', or 'win' the
majority of single-player titles he/she owns if the difficulty level exceeds
his/her _initial_ skill level?"
In other words, does average Joe Gamer rise to the occassion and improve
him/her-self as necessary? Or does Joe Gamer quit, pack up their toys and
go home?
If to the former one answers "yes", twinking will not extend longevity since
Joe Gamer will not quit until they have overcome the impediment to their
progress.
If to the latter one answers "yes", you cannot help Joe Gamer unless you
provide them a dedicated baby-sitter. The game will ultimately become "too
hard" for them and they will leave unless cared for constantly. And since
noone likes a leech, Joe Gamer will not have friends very long and will
decide to quit.
> ...get them to have friends, within two hours of logging on
> for the first time
This necessitates...
> a system whereby elder players are incentivized to help newbies
"Help" _should_ primarily involve knowledge and social association.
> Mathematically, I'm pretty sure that the number of people you get past
that
> inflection point leads to more revenue/lifespan than the loss that results
> from the shortened lifespan of a twinked character--especially if the
maxxed
> out twinked character then chooses to do it over again "on their own" for
> the challenge of it.
That would actually require that people make the game effectively more
difficult for themselves. Their relative "norm" is being twinked. That is
all they know. They know that it sucked so much to NOT be twinked that they
required intervention by others. This gets back to the "step up to the
challenge or go home" question. Either I endeavour the first time around,
or it was too hard. If I can't complete Quake III on medium, I am not about
to try and complete it on hard or impossible difficulty. I also don't get my
friend to come over and complete a specific level for me. That would be
pointless as I would be effectively turning the game over to my friend
permanently (assuming progressional increase in difficulty). I believe the
person that undertakes that kind of hardship (recreating a character to "do
it over again 'on their own'") to be a rare exception and a completely
negligible percentage for purposes of this discussion. I would even venture
to tangentialize momentarily and state that I believe the largest percentage
of twinking in EQ occurs with "secondary" (or later) characters. The
purpose is to make it "easier", and therefore "faster", and/or attempt to
skip content the second time around. I guess this in itself could hold a
message.
I don't necessarily disagree with the overall argument, as I see many of
your points as valid in a general context. I do not feel that twinking as
necessarily bad, but that the stance on twinking taken by a development team
is completely situational and based on the individual project's game design
and "vision" philosophy.
Sorry for the rambling...
~Ryan Palacio - Justifying twinking F. Randall Farmer
- Justifying twinking Ryan Palacio
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking Todd McKimmey
- Justifying twinking Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- Justifying twinking Jeff Freeman
- Justifying twinking Schubert, Damion
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Travis S. Casey
- Justifying twinking John Bertoglio
- Justifying twinking Travis Nixon
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Travis S. Casey
- Justifying twinking Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking J C Lawrence
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking Travis Casey
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Sellers, Michael
- Justifying twinking Mud Imp
- Justifying twinking Brian Green
- Justifying twinking John Bertoglio
- Justifying twinking Ananda Dawnsinger
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking Travis Casey
- Justifying twinking Timothy Dang
- Justifying twinking jolson@micron.net
- Justifying twinking Travis Nixon
- Justifying twinking John Bertoglio
- Justifying twinking jolson@micron.net
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking Schubert, Damion
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Christopher Allen
- Justifying twinking adam@treyarch.com
- Justifying twinking Geoffrey Z.
- Justifying twinking Justin Lockshaw
- Justifying twinking Raph Koster
- Justifying twinking S. Patrick Gallaty
- Justifying twinking Frank Crowell
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Justifying twinking Lee Sheldon
- Game Law Example (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Game Law Example (fwd) Travis S. Casey
- Fun and Learning in games Draymoor
- Fun and Learning in games Schubert, Damion
- Fun and Learning in games adam@treyarch.com
- Re PRIVATE Justifying twinking Kristen L. Koster
- Re PRIVATE Justifying twinking Josh Olson
- Database back ends dwacks@saleslogix.com
- Database back ends Greg Underwood
- Database back ends Quiet
- Database back ends Kevin Littlejohn
- defeating twinking through game mechanics S. Patrick Gallaty
- defeating twinking through game mechanics jolson@micron.net
- defeating twinking through game mechanics adam@treyarch.com
- defeating twinking through game mechanics S. Patrick Gallaty
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Erik Jarvi
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Travis S. Casey
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Travis Casey
- defeating twinking through game mechanics Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- defeating twinking through game mechanics J C Lawrence
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" F. Randall Farmer
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Christopher Allen
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Brian Green
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" adam@treyarch.com
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Timothy Dang
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Ananda Dawnsinger
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Charles Hughes
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Sellers, Michael
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Charles Hughes
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" adam@treyarch.com
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" stoddart@slip.net
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Eli Stevens
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" Raph Koster
- Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO" PLAGNAL XAVIER
- Massive Connections Christopher Kohnert
- Massive Connections Kevin Scott London
- Massive Connections Christopher Kohnert
- MUD-Dev request rejected Jeff Freeman
- interesting article on world size and finance Fred Clift
- interesting article on world size and finance J C Lawrence
- interesting article on world size and finance John Bertoglio
- [Mud-Dev]: Sushi Mud Todd McKimmey
- [Mud-Dev]: Sushi Mud guru@thebay.plus.com
- LA Times article: Virtual Loot for Real Cash Ryan Palacio
- LA Times article: Virtual Loot for Real Cash J C Lawrence
- Alignment (very long) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Alignment (very long) Christopher Allen
- Alignment (very long) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Alignment (very long) Kevin Littlejohn
- Alignment (very long) Travis Casey
- Alignment (very long) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Character persistance, was Family, was characters per account JC
- Character persistance, was Family, was characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) J C Lawrence
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Charles
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) J C Lawrence
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Chris Jacobson
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Richard Ross
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Lee Sheldon
- shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd) Matt Chatterley
- BioWare to demonstrate Neverwinter Nights at E3 F. Randall Farmer
- BioWare to demonstrate Neverwinter Nights at E3 Jeff Freeman
- BioWare to demonstrate Neverwinter Nights at E3 Travis Casey
- ColdStore. Belated response from a developer. colin@field.medicine.adelaide.edu.au
- ColdStore. Belated response from a developer. Miroslav Silovic
- ColdStore. Belated response from a developer. Jay Carlson
- ColdStore. Belated response from a developer. colin@field.medicine.adelaide.edu.au
- [Meta] Ex-Origin Employees to new Verant studio Eli Stevens
- Game Spec Jman77777@aol.com
- From banning the sale of items to virtual slavery... Stéphane Garin
- Search engine and thread managing Stéphane Garin
- Search engine and thread managing J C Lawrence
- LED0 Frank Crowell
- Re[4]: defeating twinking through game mechanics Travis Casey
- MUME poll results (fwd) J C Lawrence
- MUME poll results (fwd) Christopher Allen
- MUME poll results (fwd) Raph Koster
- MUME poll results (fwd) Charles Hughes
- MUME poll results (fwd) Eric Olsen
- MUME poll results (fwd) Charles Hughes
- selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- selling Godhoods J C Lawrence
- selling Godhoods Chris Jacobson
- selling Godhoods Ananda Dawnsinger
- selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- selling Godhoods Ananda Dawnsinger
- selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- selling Godhoods Ananda Dawnsinger
- selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- selling Godhoods Phillip Lenhardt
- selling Godhoods Ananda Dawnsinger
- selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- selling Godhoods Darren Henderson
- selling Godhoods J C Lawrence
- selling Godhoods Raph Koster
- selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- selling Godhoods Darren Henderson
- selling Godhoods Tess Lowe
- selling Godhoods Ananda Dawnsinger
- selling Godhoods Richard Woolcock
- selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- selling Godhoods Richard Woolcock
- selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- selling Godhoods J C Lawrence
- selling Godhoods Tess Lowe
- selling Godhoods Richard Woolcock
- Selling Godhoods!?! Larvenz
- selling Godhoods Par Winzell
- selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- Selling Godhoods!?! Par Winzell
- Selling Godhoods!?! Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- selling Godhoods Jeff Freeman
- Selling Godhoods!?! Mud Imp
- Selling Godhoods!?! J C Lawrence
- Selling Godhoods!?! Kevin Scott London
- Selling Godhoods!?! Christopher Kohnert
- Selling Godhoods!?! Kevin Scott London
- Selling Godhoods!?! Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- selling Godhoods J C Lawrence
- selling Godhoods Raph Koster
- selling Godhoods Ananda Dawnsinger
- selling Godhoods Raph Koster
- selling Godhoods Laurent Bossavit
- selling Godhoods lapsos
- selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- selling Godhoods Par Winzell
- moving advancement away from experience Eli Stevens
- moving advancement away from experience Travis Casey
- moving advancement away from experience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- moving advancement away from experience Lee Sheldon
- E3 and exhibit/session passes (follow-ups to Meta) Sellers, Michael
- attracting players Mud Imp
- attracting players Richard Woolcock
- attracting players Chris Lloyd
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Chris Lloyd
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Christopher Allen
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Schubert, Damion
- Self-Sufficient Worlds John Bertoglio
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Quzah
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Phillip Lenhardt
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Mordengaard
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Chris Turner
- Self-Sufficient Worlds lapsos
- Self-Sufficient Worlds F. Randall Farmer
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Chad Arnold
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Sellers, Michael
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Chris Lloyd
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Raph Koster
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Raph Koster
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Raph Koster
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Raph Koster
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds J C Lawrence
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Matthew Mihaly
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Sellers, Michael
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Powell, Warren
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Lee Sheldon
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Angela Ferraiolo
- Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- Self-Sufficient Worlds J C Lawrence
- Addressing newbies (was: attracting players) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Addressing newbies (was: attracting players) Jerry Hill
- Addressing newbies (was: attracting players) adam@treyarch.com
- Addressing newbies (was: attracting players) adam@treyarch.com
- reaction to selling godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- reaction to selling godhoods Kevin Scott London
- Crafts Systems (was:Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO") Ananda Dawnsinger
- Crafts Systems (was:Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO") Raph Koster
- Crafts Systems (was:Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO") Charles Hughes
- Crafts Systems (was:Simpson's "In-Game Economics of UO") Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- datagrams Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- a article on ai -- ANTS -- (fwd) J C Lawrence
- FW: selling Godhoods John Bertoglio
- FW: selling Godhoods Matthew Mihaly
- Skotos Bulk System - a Technical Summary (LONG) Christopher Allen
- "The client is in the hands of the enemy" Schubert, Damion
- "The client is in the hands of the enemy" Zak Jarvis
- "The client is in the hands of the enemy" Kevin Littlejohn
- Procedural Storytelling WAS Self-Sufficient Worlds Zak Jarvis
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Zak Jarvis
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling J C Lawrence
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Raph Koster
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling rob@cs.nwu.edu
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Brandon J. Rickman
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Travis Nixon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling J C Lawrence
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Travis Nixon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Raph Koster
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Lee Sheldon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Marian Griffith
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Lee Sheldon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Zak Jarvis
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Brandon J. Rickman
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Travis Nixon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Brandon J. Rickman
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Lee Sheldon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Brandon J. Rickman
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Lee Sheldon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Travis Nixon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Brian Green
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Travis Nixon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Sam Axon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Travis Nixon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Brian Green
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Kevin Littlejohn
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Lee Sheldon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Angela Ferraiolo
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Lee Sheldon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Erik Jarvi
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Lee Sheldon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Nathan F Yospe
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Lee Sheldon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Erik Jarvi
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Nathan F Yospe
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Raph Koster
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Batir
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Raph Koster
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Brandon J. Rickman
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Kristen L. Koster
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Batir
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Raph Koster
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Charles Hughes
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Erik Jarvi
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Brandon J. Rickman
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Matthew Mihaly
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Lee Sheldon
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Brandon J. Rickman
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Matthew Mihaly
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Joe Andrieu
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Rawlings@aol.com
- A footnote to Procedural Storytelling Brandon J. Rickman