March 2000
- Portal Matthew Mihaly
- randomly dropped connections Matthew Mihaly
- randomly dropped connections cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- randomly dropped connections Ben Greear
- randomly dropped connections J C Lawrence
- randomly dropped connections adam@treyarch.com
- randomly dropped connections Kevin Littlejohn
- Mud Network Setup Jon A. Lambert
- Mud Network Setup adam@treyarch.com
- Mud Network Setup J C Lawrence
- Mud Network Setup David Bennett
- Mud Network Setup Todd McKimmey
- Mud Network Setup David Bennett
- Mud Network Setup J C Lawrence
- Mud Network Setup adam@treyarch.com
- Mud Network Setup Jon A. Lambert
- Mud Network Setup J C Lawrence
- Mud Network Setup Emil Eifrem
- Mud Network Setup Dominic J. Eidson
- Mud Network Setup Emil Eifrem
- Mud Network Setup Eli Stevens {Grey}
- Mud Network Setup Todd McKimmey
- Mud Network Setup adam@treyarch.com
- Mud Network Setup cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Mud Network Setup Steve Boleware
- Mud Network Setup Joe Andrieu
- Mud Network Setup John Bertoglio
- (fwd) MU* hiasb@cc.gatech.edstory? claw@kanga.nu
- (fwd) MU* hiasb@cc.gatech.edstory? cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- (fwd) MU* hiasb@cc.gatech.edstory? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (fwd) MU* hiasb@cc.gatech.edstory? adam@treyarch.com
- (fwd) MU* hiasb@cc.gatech.edstory? 송재경
- Processor Usage Christopher Kohnert
- Processor Usage J C Lawrence
- Processor Usage Dominic J. Eidson
- Processor Usage Ben Greear
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #298 - 11 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- MUD timeline Jon Leonard
- MUD timeline Richard Woolcock
- MUD timeline J C Lawrence
- MUD timeline Kristen L. Koster
- MUD timeline Kristen L. Koster
- MUD timeline Lovecraft
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline AR Schleicher
- MUD timeline Matthew Mihaly
- MUD timeline Matthew Mihaly
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline Dundee
- MUD timeline Darrin Hyrup
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline Moreland, John
- MUD timeline Darrin Hyrup
- MUD timeline jkerr@htech.withoutthisstuff.com
- MUD timeline __Deric___@yahoo.com
- MUD timeline Darrin Hyrup
- MUD timeline Erik Jarvi
- MUD timeline Travis Casey
- MUD timeline Jon A. Lambert
- MUD timeline Travis Casey
- MUD timeline Jon A. Lambert
- MUD timeline Travis Casey
- MUD timeline Bruce
- MUD timeline Daniel A. Koepke
- MUD timeline cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- MUD timeline Dr Richard A. Bartle
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- MUD timeline Sellers, Michael
- MUD timeline Jon Whitehouse
- MUD timeline Derek Snider
- MUD timeline J C Lawrence
- MUD timeline Sellers, Michael
- MUD timeline Matthew Mihaly
- MUD timeline J C Lawrence
- MUD timeline Ryan Palacio
- Mud Timeline Darrell Michaud
- Mud Timeline Klimon, Ian
- Mud Timeline Matt Mihaly
- ADMIN: Ooops, damn... J C Lawrence
- FW: MUD timeline Daniel James
- MUD timeline F. Randall Farmer
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #298 - 11 msgs Koster, Raph
- Skotos Website Up Christopher Allen
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner Joe Andrieu
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner Joe Andrieu
- CGDC dinner Koster, Raph
- CGDC dinner Bruce
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner Derek Snider
- CGDC dinner Ryan Palacio
- CGDC dinner Koster, Raph
- CGDC dinner Sellers, Michael
- CGDC dinner Derek Snider
- CGDC dinner Joel Dillon
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner Emil Eifrem
- CGDC dinner Richard Ross
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner Wes Connell
- CGDC dinner Suess123@aol.com
- CGDC dinner Joel Dillon
- ADMIN: Posting delays J C Lawrence
- javascript Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- javascript cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- javascript Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- javascript Laurel Fan
- javascript Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- javascript Bruce
- javascript Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- javascript Bruce
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #302 - 6 msgs Dr. Cat
- Admin: Corrections, data loss, and interruptions in service. J C Lawrence
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws Greg Underwood
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws Wes Connell
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws Kristen L. Koster
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws Greg Underwood
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws David Bennett
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws J C Lawrence
- (OT) Admin: Library memberships J C Lawrence
- Open Source Online Gaming Aaron Mitchell
- Open Source Online Gaming Koster, Raph
- Open Source Online Gaming Bryce Harrington
- Open Source Online Gaming Bruce
- Open Source Online Gaming J C Lawrence
- Open Source Online Gaming Bryce Harrington
- Open Source Online Gaming Ryan
- Open Source Online Gaming Erik Jarvi
- Open Source Online Gaming Derek Snider
- Open Source Online Gaming Aaron Mitchell
- GDC Dinner Matthew Mihaly
- GDC Dinner Justin Rogers
- ADMIN: looking for work? J C Lawrence
- [OT] Sound in games Erik Jarvi
- [OT] Sound in games Koster, Raph
- politics J C Lawrence
- Have openings Gary Whitten
- HTML as a MUD client . . . was javascript John Bertoglio
- ADMIN: Kanga.Nu will be moving (again) J C Lawrence
- ADMIN: Lost mail? J C Lawrence
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] Lovecraft
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] John Bertoglio
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] Joel Kelso
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] adam@treyarch.com
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dynamic Load Balancing Kevin Scott London
- Open Source Environments (was: Open Source Online Gaming) scott guzman
- Open Source Environments (was: Open Source Online Gaming) Nathan F Yospe
- Fw: [RRE]MediaMOO birthday Celebration, March 20th 2000!!! Bruce
- Open Source Environments scott guzman
- MudDev FAQ part 1 Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ part 1 Todd McKimmey
- MudDev FAQ part 1 Marian Griffith
- MUD Dev FAQ part 1 Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ part II Marian Griffith
- Questions about the MudDev FAQ Marian Griffith
- Open Gaming? J C Lawrence
- Open Source Environments / MacOS X J C Lawrence
- Open Source Environments / MacOS X Chris Jacobson
- Star Wars gmud? Nathan F Yospe
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] J C Lawrence
- [CODE] unique items J. Coleman
- [CODE] unique items Draymoor
- [CODE] unique items cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- [CODE] unique items Matthew Mihaly
- [CODE] unique items Quzah
- [CODE] unique items J. Coleman
- [CODE] unique items Ben Greear
- [CODE] unique items Kevin Scott London
- [CODE] unique items Lord Ashon
- [CODE] unique items Marc Bowden
- [CODE] unique items J C Lawrence
- Kanga.Nu has a new IP J C Lawrence
- Licensing and Clauses Chris Jacobson
- The Meta list is now open and active. J C Lawrence
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? J C Lawrence
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Par Winzell
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? J C Lawrence
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Phillip Lenhardt
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? J C Lawrence
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Phillip Lenhardt
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Kevin Littlejohn
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really nec essary? Koster, Raph
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really nec essary? Nathan F Yospe
On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Koster, Raph wrote:
:> My favourite benefit of this approach is the same one that e.g. Diku
:> has over most LPMuds... that you nail down in the implementation of
:> the single physical class the entireity of the feature set... and as
:> a consequence, all physical objects are guaranteed to respond sanely
:> to a known set of actions.
:This is what I referred to as the great strength of Dikus--they are
:template-based muds. The template constrains, but only insofar as the data
:set that the template provides. If you can expand the template and supply
:default values to objects that have not been manually updated with new data,
:then your constraints pretty much go away without having to subclass new
:object types, etc.
Funny thing - the first version of Physmud - the one I had running as a text
mud - was actually a port of a set of worlds written for a modified Diku to
a more flexible custom engine with a file interpreter that read Dike format.
I've still got the last version - which I still play with from time to time,
and still plan on finishing eventually - but occasionally I start to get
fed up by the limits currently present. I never thought I'd say this, but I
miss the quick-feature-add of putting another field or two into a text file,
giving it a default, and editing in the value on a test object/thing. Now,
I do the same thing, but I have to work in the global physics of the feature
before I can activate it, and test it for consistancy... Dikus are nice,
because Dikus are simplistic.
Still...
I use a global base for all physical objects, one for processes, and one for
relationships. Inheritance from these is dynamic; the source code doesn't
have a clue what the object heirarchy is.
Processes cover verbs, continuous behaviors, triggered/scheduled actions,
etc...
There is inheritance for processes. All inheritance is potentially MI, but
some MI will not lead to results - inheriting from two complex objects will
not create a hybrid mutant - no chair-dogs that try to be both - because a
complex object is instantiatable, and objects derived from multiple
instantiatable objects are considered bad and not loadable.
Objects can be *assembled* from multiple complex objects, by linking them
using relationships.
An object must be made complex to be instantiated or used in an assembly.
Processes are also complex/basic and can be assembled using relationships.
Relationships specify dimensional, temporal, or complex connectivity, and
can be coded...
This means that, if I wanted to create a new attribute for all physical
objects, I could easilly do so... but a builder could not.
Fortunately, attributes for physical objects are very narrow in focus.
They include parametizable things like mass, energy, material, state,
temperature, life (sorry, I know, but that's how I did it), shape,
dimensions, density, density gradient, velocity, position, orientation...
All of which are interdependent, and some of which are complex themselves.
A new material is a bitch to design, having hundreds of parameters, quite
a few of which are variable by state. Materials can contain binding to a
process, but not to a spacial relationship. Life no longer does anything
significant, as there is a subclass of physical called "alive", bound to
processes like replication, reaction, and proaction... all of which have
subprocesses implementing specific behaviors.
If I wanted to add a new physical attribute, I could... and I could make
the base processes take it into account... but I can't control the exact
results of this change... and I certainly can't test it in a limited
scope.
And that's just for behavior. Interface is a whole different can of
worms. How do I describe the attribute to a player, if at all? There's
a client - theoretically - that needs to be able to interpret direct (as
opposed to consequential) manifestations of the new attribute.
I remember adding a new set of fields describing locomotive behaviour for
objects - if an object moved under its own power, it could describe that
behavior, or use a default - and I can't think how I'd do this now. I'd
say the current design is better - the client describes the locomotive
behaviour out of a lexical database it has updated from the server when
the new process in question is added - but you can't make a tigger
bounce and flounce and pounce, unless you derive a special version of
a hopping locomotion process (one exists for pogo sticks, or things of
that nature, already) with those descriptions... which would really
mess with the NLP neural net's lexicon.
And building objects is a pain. I'm using a skeletal gui based assembler.
:> So though in theory, with competent and _disciplined_ developers, the
:> LPMud can be everything a Diku can and then some, in practice there's
:> no question which code base I prefer to be a player in. Since Skotos
:> uses DGD, an LP driver, we must attempt to conjure up this discipline
:> largely through our world implementation (and developer interface).
:cf my LP vs Diku posting from ages ago, it's in the archives and also on my
:website. Key point is near the end, and is equally applicable to your
:approach: "The name of the game in Dikus really has to be making the
:templates they load more flexible"... in other words, for your approach,
:providing an architecture to your superclass so that your methods can easily
:be added to, expanded on, and customized in greater detail...
:http://www.legendmud.org/raph/gaming/index.html
As I said, I did that once... the end result was a form of SGML that
had a separate program for converting Diku files to a subset... and
mobprogs to a different file, to be updated by hand.
Now the question is, if I turned my codebase and development environment
loose, would it hold up against the undisciplined builders' efforts? If
someone tries to write a process that behaves in a way out of keeping
with the existing resources and process attributes, it won't work - but
I imagine some abuses will, and where there's something hackable...
--
Nathan F. Yospe - Born in the year of the tiger, riding it forever after
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~yospe nathan.yospe@isearch.com yospe@hawaii.edu
Don't mind me, I'm just insane... there's someone else here in my brain.
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really nec essary? Nathan F Yospe
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Draymoor
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? scott guzman
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Chris Jones
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Dr Richard A. Bartle
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Lazarus
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Kevin Littlejohn
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Phillip Lenhardt
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Brandon J. Rickman
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Marian Griffith
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Kevin Littlejohn
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really nec essary? Brian Ashburn
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Par Winzell
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? J C Lawrence
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? adam@treyarch.com
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Kevin Littlejohn
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Koster, Raph
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Sayeed
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Matthew Mihaly
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Draymoor
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Vijay Weasel Prabhakar
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems J C Lawrence
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Sayeed
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems adam@treyarch.com
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Dundee
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems David Bennett
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Wes Connell
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Koster, Raph
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Fred Clift
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Draymoor
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Ananda Dawnsinger
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Koster, Raph
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Sayeed
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Todd McKimmey
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems AR Schleicher
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Sayeed
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Wes Connell
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Sayeed
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Koster, Raph
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (fwd) mud.design.ideas Nathan Fenenga Yospe
- Command interface for Coordinate based world WriterDL@aol.com
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Draymoor
- Command interface for Coordinate based world adam@treyarch.com
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Nathan F Yospe
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Vijay Weasel Prabhakar
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Jeremy Noetzelman
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Laurel Fan
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Lovecraft
- ADMIN: Moving house and posting delays J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #18 - 17 msgs Dr. Cat
- Embedding C/C++ Draymoor
- Embedding C/C++ Justin Rogers
- Embedding C/C++ J C Lawrence
- multiplaying Tess Lowe
- multiplaying Lovecraft
- multiplaying Wes Connell
- Online Justice Systems scott guzman
- Online Justice Systems Matthew Mihaly
- Online Justice Systems J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Wes Connell
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Wes Connell
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Marc Bowden
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens adam@treyarch.com
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Jon Lambert
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Rasdan
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Par Winzell
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Todd McKimmey
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Todd McKimmey
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Dan Shiovitz
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Chris Jones
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Dundee
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Zak Jarvis
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Todd McKimmey
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Fred Clift
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Gunnar Kreitz
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Ananda Dawnsinger
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Kevin Scott London
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Marc Bowden
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Koster, Raph
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Jon A. Lambert
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens adam@treyarch.com
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Jon A. Lambert
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Koster, Raph
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Koster, Raph
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Par Winzell
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Jon Lambert
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Kristen L. Koster
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Tess Lowe
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Jon Lambert
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Tess Lowe
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Joe Andrieu
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Chris Lloyd
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens David Bennett
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Chris Lloyd
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Koster, Raph
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Zak Jarvis
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Zak Jarvis
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Par Winzell
- Online Justice Systems (response to J C) J C Lawrence
- Online Justice Systems (response to J C) scott guzman
- Meta: Questions about the MudDev FAQ Jon A. Lambert
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Aaron Leslie
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Baldur Norddahl
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Chris Jacobson
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Lovecraft
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Tess Lowe
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Kevin Scott London
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Sellers, Michael
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Kevin Scott London
- Object and class hierarchies -- are they really necessary? Christopher Allen
- ScryMUD 2.0.11 released. Ben Greear
- ADMIN: Spam filters and being unsubscribed J C Lawrence
- World and History Creation Ling
- characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- characters per account F. Randall Farmer
- characters per account Jeff Freeman
- characters per account Sellers, Michael
- characters per account LexaH@aol.com
- characters per account Jeff Freeman
- characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- characters per account AR Schleicher
- characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- characters per account AR Schleicher
- characters per account John Bertoglio
- characters per account Sayeed
- characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- characters per account Sayeed
- characters per account Brian Green
- characters per account Timothy Dang
- characters per account F. Randall Farmer
- characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- characters per account Kristen L. Koster
- characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- characters per account Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- characters per account Timothy Dang
- characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- characters per account Darren Henderson
- characters per account adam@treyarch.com
- characters per account Jon Lambert
- characters per account Darren Henderson
- characters per account J C Lawrence
- characters per account Zak Jarvis
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project Matthew Mihaly
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project Sellers, Michael
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project skeptack
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project skeptack
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project AR Schleicher
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project Jeff Freeman
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project Brian Green
- Debugging techniques adam@treyarch.com
- Lord British gone Geoffrey A. MacDougall