March 2000
- Portal Matthew Mihaly
- randomly dropped connections Matthew Mihaly
- randomly dropped connections cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- randomly dropped connections Ben Greear
- randomly dropped connections J C Lawrence
- randomly dropped connections adam@treyarch.com
- randomly dropped connections Kevin Littlejohn
- Mud Network Setup Jon A. Lambert
- Mud Network Setup adam@treyarch.com
- Mud Network Setup J C Lawrence
- Mud Network Setup David Bennett
- Mud Network Setup Todd McKimmey
- Mud Network Setup David Bennett
- Mud Network Setup J C Lawrence
- Mud Network Setup adam@treyarch.com
- Mud Network Setup Jon A. Lambert
- Mud Network Setup J C Lawrence
- Mud Network Setup Emil Eifrem
- Mud Network Setup Dominic J. Eidson
- Mud Network Setup Emil Eifrem
- Mud Network Setup Eli Stevens {Grey}
- Mud Network Setup Todd McKimmey
- Mud Network Setup adam@treyarch.com
- Mud Network Setup cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Mud Network Setup Steve Boleware
- Mud Network Setup Joe Andrieu
- Mud Network Setup John Bertoglio
- (fwd) MU* hiasb@cc.gatech.edstory? claw@kanga.nu
- (fwd) MU* hiasb@cc.gatech.edstory? cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- (fwd) MU* hiasb@cc.gatech.edstory? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (fwd) MU* hiasb@cc.gatech.edstory? adam@treyarch.com
- (fwd) MU* hiasb@cc.gatech.edstory? 송재경
- Processor Usage Christopher Kohnert
- Processor Usage J C Lawrence
- Processor Usage Dominic J. Eidson
- Processor Usage Ben Greear
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #298 - 11 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- MUD timeline Jon Leonard
- MUD timeline Richard Woolcock
- MUD timeline J C Lawrence
- MUD timeline Kristen L. Koster
- MUD timeline Kristen L. Koster
- MUD timeline Lovecraft
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline AR Schleicher
- MUD timeline Matthew Mihaly
- MUD timeline Matthew Mihaly
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline Dundee
- MUD timeline Darrin Hyrup
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline Moreland, John
- MUD timeline Darrin Hyrup
- MUD timeline jkerr@htech.withoutthisstuff.com
- MUD timeline __Deric___@yahoo.com
- MUD timeline Darrin Hyrup
- MUD timeline Erik Jarvi
- MUD timeline Travis Casey
- MUD timeline Jon A. Lambert
- MUD timeline Travis Casey
- MUD timeline Jon A. Lambert
- MUD timeline Travis Casey
- MUD timeline Bruce
- MUD timeline Daniel A. Koepke
- MUD timeline cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- MUD timeline Dr Richard A. Bartle
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- MUD timeline Koster, Raph
- MUD timeline Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- MUD timeline Sellers, Michael
- MUD timeline Jon Whitehouse
- MUD timeline Derek Snider
- MUD timeline J C Lawrence
- MUD timeline Sellers, Michael
- MUD timeline Matthew Mihaly
- MUD timeline J C Lawrence
- MUD timeline Ryan Palacio
- Mud Timeline Darrell Michaud
- Mud Timeline Klimon, Ian
- Mud Timeline Matt Mihaly
- ADMIN: Ooops, damn... J C Lawrence
- FW: MUD timeline Daniel James
- MUD timeline F. Randall Farmer
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #298 - 11 msgs Koster, Raph
- Skotos Website Up Christopher Allen
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner Joe Andrieu
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner Joe Andrieu
- CGDC dinner Koster, Raph
- CGDC dinner Bruce
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner Derek Snider
- CGDC dinner Ryan Palacio
- CGDC dinner Koster, Raph
- CGDC dinner Sellers, Michael
- CGDC dinner Derek Snider
- CGDC dinner Joel Dillon
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner Emil Eifrem
- CGDC dinner Richard Ross
- CGDC dinner J C Lawrence
- CGDC dinner Wes Connell
- CGDC dinner Suess123@aol.com
- CGDC dinner Joel Dillon
- ADMIN: Posting delays J C Lawrence
- javascript Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- javascript cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- javascript Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- javascript Laurel Fan
- javascript Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- javascript Bruce
- javascript Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- javascript Bruce
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #302 - 6 msgs Dr. Cat
- Admin: Corrections, data loss, and interruptions in service. J C Lawrence
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws Greg Underwood
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws Wes Connell
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws Kristen L. Koster
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws Greg Underwood
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws David Bennett
- Raph's collection of MUD design Laws J C Lawrence
- (OT) Admin: Library memberships J C Lawrence
- Open Source Online Gaming Aaron Mitchell
- Open Source Online Gaming Koster, Raph
- Open Source Online Gaming Bryce Harrington
- Open Source Online Gaming Bruce
- Open Source Online Gaming J C Lawrence
- Open Source Online Gaming Bryce Harrington
- Open Source Online Gaming Ryan
- Open Source Online Gaming Erik Jarvi
- Open Source Online Gaming Derek Snider
- Open Source Online Gaming Aaron Mitchell
- GDC Dinner Matthew Mihaly
- GDC Dinner Justin Rogers
- ADMIN: looking for work? J C Lawrence
- [OT] Sound in games Erik Jarvi
- [OT] Sound in games Koster, Raph
- politics J C Lawrence
- Have openings Gary Whitten
- HTML as a MUD client . . . was javascript John Bertoglio
> -----Original Message-----
On using HTML/HTTP for a MUD client: This THE way to reach a mass market (or
even a niche within the mass market). Our company (barely) survived the
transition from dialup and telnet-based systems to the web. The notion of
universal client (the web browser) installed with every OS meant as
designers we could concentrate on content and not have to worry about having
to install a client program on user machines. Mature BBS environments had
much more power and flexibility than the early web. But they died because of
the need to mask the arcane Telnet interface with a sophisticated client
program. People did not care about the power. They liked the web The web
browsers got better and better.
While basic HTML is not as rich an environment for client building as
Delphi, PowerBuilder or VB, everyone understands it. The only real advantage
a custom client offers is the potential for a somewhat higher control
density as HTML tends to render things a bit loose. But with careful design
a very credible interface can be fielded. We had a fully functional MUD
running in an web browser with a X-Base back end some time ago. (It's in the
archives). It did some things much better than a standard telnet mud because
the ability to use buttons, drop down boxes and other elements allowed for a
large number of transactions per client send. Inventory management, mapping,
displaying exits were all much easier for the designer and the user. This is
not because of our skill as interface designer but the quality of the tool
set available in HTML. A person used to the web knows to click on the "N" on
the compass graphic. It is slowly being rebuilt in our new environment which
is much more powerful and easier to use. Unfortunaly, our professional
environment has forced an emphasis on "real work", so the MUD has suffered.
The client used a model similar to this post for the chat/action window:
> Laurel Fan
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 11:59 AM
>
> If want to allow playing your mud from a web browser, consider doing
> something on the (web) server side. There are plenty of html-only
> (with none or minimal JavaScript) chat/irc type applications. The
> basic principle of these is usually:
>
> 1. Have two frames, 1 for input, 1 for output.
> 2. Keep a connection to the mud.
> 3. Have the output frame refresh every 10 seconds or so. The mud dumps
> its output into a file, and your script sends the tail of the file
> every time it's loaded.
> 4. The input frame is a form, containing a text field that submits to
> the script. The script sends the contents of the text field as
> input to the mud.
The same method of using a META REFRESH tag also updated character status
graphs, time of day, phases of the moon, etc. There are well documented ways
to insert a JAVA applet inside a frame to do real-time updates, but this
gets into performance problems as well as buying the fun of JAVA browser
incompatibility issues. (I know, the design is supposed to prevent this but
all but the simplest applets have browser issues.) This lack of absolute up
to the nanosecond refresh makes certain kinds of popular MUD design
elemements such as real-time, macro driven combat impractical. But like all
design compromises, it opens up other interesting possibilities. I suspect
that in the hands of a good team, a lot could be done.
The ability of the designer to use frames (we don't use frames anywhere in
our professional work, but they work for building a MUD client) allows the
user to redefine menus and screen areas to perform functions. It is much
easier to expose all the cool features of a mud with zero training if the
user can click through a series of menus. Of course, we included a command
line interface because some commands are more efficient [dr all; drop all]
than navigating a series of menus.
Using HTTP as a server protocol is a somewhat different proposition.
Clearly, being able to use a standard web server with a database backend
solves a number of design problems. The "serve and forget" model allows a
huge number of simultaneous users and the methods for scaling websites are
well known and documented. However, that same model presents the web
designer with some real challenges. We use InterSystems' Cache' which has
associated programs which preserve a user's variable stack from hit to hit.
(BTW, Cache' is not very well know but it would be an awesome - if
expensive - backend for a MUD, traditional or otherwise. If anyone is
interested, I would be pleased to discuss it off list. I love this product.)
I am sure that there are other systems which provide similar functionality.
This method allows us to "remember what is going on" with a user as they
navigate through the world. That also allows the system to validate user
input and fail attempts to hack the client and send "impossible" commands.
Some quick notes:
JavaScript: Great for little things like graphic rollovers, client side
validation (you don't trust it if course) and some frame manipulation. Keep
it simple and you get good cross platform performance. Get fancy and you end
up with a mess.
DHTML: Cool and powerful but very browser specific. Move too far down this
road and you are trying to VB stuff in a hostile environment. There are also
speed issues.
XML: A wild card. Some huge potential power here. We will know more (about
our current development environment) when we return from a Developers
Conference at the end of March, 2000.
CSS: (Cascading style sheets) Really cool, but will loose you some of the
fringe. In its simplest form, CSS allows for graphic consistency without
creating a bandwidth nightmare of formatting tags. Get fancy with CSS and
you can really get wild. Once again, simple means consistency across
platforms.
Design: Be reasonable. We serve (and maintain) four versions of our inline
poll ASP product because of the need to get a lot of information is a very
small space.
I guess the point here is try to look outside the box. Text based games can
find a home in a GUI world. The key is to present the text in a rich,
familiar user interface and suck the player into the world with depth and
mystery. We will not be the first to field a fully functional HTML-based MUD
(Actually, we might never field it). But someone will. If it is good, it
will be very successful.
John A. Bertoglio
PulsePoll.com <http://www.pulsepoll.com/>
| 503.781.3563
| jb@pulsepoll.com - ADMIN: Kanga.Nu will be moving (again) J C Lawrence
- ADMIN: Lost mail? J C Lawrence
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] Lovecraft
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] John Bertoglio
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] Joel Kelso
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] adam@treyarch.com
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dynamic Load Balancing Kevin Scott London
- Open Source Environments (was: Open Source Online Gaming) scott guzman
- Open Source Environments (was: Open Source Online Gaming) Nathan F Yospe
- Fw: [RRE]MediaMOO birthday Celebration, March 20th 2000!!! Bruce
- Open Source Environments scott guzman
- MudDev FAQ part 1 Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ part 1 Todd McKimmey
- MudDev FAQ part 1 Marian Griffith
- MUD Dev FAQ part 1 Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ part II Marian Griffith
- Questions about the MudDev FAQ Marian Griffith
- Open Gaming? J C Lawrence
- Open Source Environments / MacOS X J C Lawrence
- Open Source Environments / MacOS X Chris Jacobson
- Star Wars gmud? Nathan F Yospe
- better usage through mechanics [from: CGDC dinner] J C Lawrence
- [CODE] unique items J. Coleman
- [CODE] unique items Draymoor
- [CODE] unique items cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- [CODE] unique items Matthew Mihaly
- [CODE] unique items Quzah
- [CODE] unique items J. Coleman
- [CODE] unique items Ben Greear
- [CODE] unique items Kevin Scott London
- [CODE] unique items Lord Ashon
- [CODE] unique items Marc Bowden
- [CODE] unique items J C Lawrence
- Kanga.Nu has a new IP J C Lawrence
- Licensing and Clauses Chris Jacobson
- The Meta list is now open and active. J C Lawrence
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? J C Lawrence
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Par Winzell
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? J C Lawrence
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Phillip Lenhardt
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? J C Lawrence
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Phillip Lenhardt
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Kevin Littlejohn
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really nec essary? Koster, Raph
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really nec essary? Nathan F Yospe
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Draymoor
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? scott guzman
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Chris Jones
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Dr Richard A. Bartle
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Lazarus
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Kevin Littlejohn
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Phillip Lenhardt
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Brandon J. Rickman
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Marian Griffith
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Kevin Littlejohn
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really nec essary? Brian Ashburn
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Par Winzell
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? J C Lawrence
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? adam@treyarch.com
- Object and class heirarchies -- are they really necessary? Kevin Littlejohn
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Koster, Raph
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Sayeed
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Matthew Mihaly
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Draymoor
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Vijay Weasel Prabhakar
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems J C Lawrence
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Sayeed
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems adam@treyarch.com
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Dundee
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems David Bennett
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Wes Connell
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Koster, Raph
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Fred Clift
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Draymoor
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Ananda Dawnsinger
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Koster, Raph
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Sayeed
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Todd McKimmey
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems AR Schleicher
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Sayeed
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Wes Connell
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Sayeed
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Koster, Raph
- Gamasutra: Online Justice Systems Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (fwd) mud.design.ideas Nathan Fenenga Yospe
- Command interface for Coordinate based world WriterDL@aol.com
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Draymoor
- Command interface for Coordinate based world adam@treyarch.com
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Nathan F Yospe
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Vijay Weasel Prabhakar
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Jeremy Noetzelman
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Laurel Fan
- Command interface for Coordinate based world Lovecraft
- ADMIN: Moving house and posting delays J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #18 - 17 msgs Dr. Cat
- Embedding C/C++ Draymoor
- Embedding C/C++ Justin Rogers
- Embedding C/C++ J C Lawrence
- multiplaying Tess Lowe
- multiplaying Lovecraft
- multiplaying Wes Connell
- Online Justice Systems scott guzman
- Online Justice Systems Matthew Mihaly
- Online Justice Systems J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Wes Connell
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Wes Connell
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Marc Bowden
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens adam@treyarch.com
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Jon Lambert
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Rasdan
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Par Winzell
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Todd McKimmey
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Todd McKimmey
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Dan Shiovitz
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Chris Jones
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Dundee
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Zak Jarvis
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Todd McKimmey
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Fred Clift
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Gunnar Kreitz
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Justin Rogers
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Ananda Dawnsinger
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Kevin Scott London
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Marc Bowden
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Koster, Raph
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Jon A. Lambert
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens adam@treyarch.com
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Jon A. Lambert
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Koster, Raph
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Koster, Raph
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Par Winzell
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Jon Lambert
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Kristen L. Koster
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Tess Lowe
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Jon Lambert
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Tess Lowe
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Joe Andrieu
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Chris Lloyd
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens David Bennett
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Chris Lloyd
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Koster, Raph
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Matthew Mihaly
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Zak Jarvis
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens J C Lawrence
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Zak Jarvis
- Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens Par Winzell
- Online Justice Systems (response to J C) J C Lawrence
- Online Justice Systems (response to J C) scott guzman
- Meta: Questions about the MudDev FAQ Jon A. Lambert
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Aaron Leslie
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Baldur Norddahl
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Chris Jacobson
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Lovecraft
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Tess Lowe
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Kevin Scott London
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Sellers, Michael
- RE:Troublemakers and their M.O. Kevin Scott London
- Object and class hierarchies -- are they really necessary? Christopher Allen
- ScryMUD 2.0.11 released. Ben Greear
- ADMIN: Spam filters and being unsubscribed J C Lawrence
- World and History Creation Ling
- characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- characters per account F. Randall Farmer
- characters per account Jeff Freeman
- characters per account Sellers, Michael
- characters per account LexaH@aol.com
- characters per account Jeff Freeman
- characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- characters per account AR Schleicher
- characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- characters per account AR Schleicher
- characters per account John Bertoglio
- characters per account Sayeed
- characters per account Matthew Mihaly
- characters per account Sayeed
- characters per account Brian Green
- characters per account Timothy Dang
- characters per account F. Randall Farmer
- characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- characters per account Kristen L. Koster
- characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- characters per account Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- characters per account Timothy Dang
- characters per account Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- characters per account Darren Henderson
- characters per account adam@treyarch.com
- characters per account Jon Lambert
- characters per account Darren Henderson
- characters per account J C Lawrence
- characters per account Zak Jarvis
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project Matthew Mihaly
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project Sellers, Michael
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project skeptack
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project skeptack
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project AR Schleicher
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project Jeff Freeman
- Richard Garriot's 'X' project Brian Green
- Debugging techniques adam@treyarch.com
- Lord British gone Geoffrey A. MacDougall