December 2000
- Components and Inheritence Jon Lambert
- Components and Inheritence John Buehler
- Components and Inheritence Jon Lambert
- Cash for Lawsuits UCMM Administration
- Cash for Lawsuits Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Cash for Lawsuits Patrick Dughi
- Cash for Lawsuits Matthew D. Fuller
- Cash for Lawsuits Patrick Dughi
- Cash for Lawsuits Matthew Mihaly
- Cash for Lawsuits Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- Cash for Lawsuits Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- Cash for Lawsuits Alex
- Names (was: An essay on d00dz ...) Marian Griffith
- Names (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") gmiller@classic-games.com
- Names (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Travis Casey
- New and looking for a good place to get started... Graham Reitz
- New and looking for a good place to get started... Peter
- New and looking for a good place to get started... Corey Crawford
- New and looking for a good place to get started... Patrick Dughi
- New and looking for a good place to get started... J C Lawrence
- New and looking for a good place to get started... Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Permadeath or Not? Corey Crawford
- Permadeath or Not? John Buehler
- Permadeath or Not? Jeff Freeman
- Permadeath or Not? Ben Chambers
- Permadeath or Not? John Buehler
- Permadeath or Not? Travis Nixon
- Permadeath or Not? Corey Crawford
- Permadeath or Not? John Buehler
- Permadeath or Not? Madrona Tree
- Permadeath or Not? John Buehler
- Permadeath or Not? Travis Casey
- Permadeath or Not? Jeff Freeman
- Permadeath or Not? Travis Casey
- Permadeath or Not? Travis Nixon
- Permadeath or Not? Zak Jarvis
- Permadeath or Not? Koster, Raph
- Permadeath or Not? Vincent Archer
- Permadeath or Not? Koster, Raph
- Permadeath or Not? Dave Rickey
- Permadeath or Not? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Permadeath or Not? Jeff Freeman
- Permadeath or Not? Batir
- Permadeath or Not? Koster, Raph
- Permadeath or Not? Jeff Freeman
- Permadeath or Not? Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Permadeath or Not? Kwon Ekstrom
- Permadeath or Not? Jeff Freeman
- Permadeath or Not? J. Eric Townsend
- Permadeath or Not? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Permadeath or Not? Travis Casey
- Permadeath or Not? John Buehler
- Permadeath or Not? Madrona Tree
- Permadeath or Not? Marian Griffith
- Permadeath or Not? rayzam
- Greetings from Organelle o. rchaeus
- Diku & GPL Patrick Dughi
- Diku & GPL Jon Lambert
- Diku & GPL Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- Diku & GPL Jon Lambert
- Diku & GPL J C Lawrence
- Diku & GPL Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- Diku & GPL Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Diku & GPL Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Diku & GPL Vincent Archer
- Diku & GPL gmiller@classic-games.com
- Diku & GPL Lars Duening
- Diku & GPL Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Diku & GPL Alex
- Diku & GPL Corey Crawford
- Diku & GPL George Greer
- Current Server Versions (was: "New and looking for a good place to get started...") Corey Crawford
- Current Server Versions Corey Crawford
- Current Server Versions J C Lawrence
- A list of MMORPG Questions Eric Rhea
- A list of MMORPG Questions Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- A list of MMORPG Questions Jeff Freeman
- A list of MMORPG Questions Vincent Archer
- A list of MMORPG Questions J C Lawrence
- A list of MMORPG Questions Marc Bowden
- A list of MMORPG Questions Dave Rickey
- A list of MMORPG Questions John Szeder
- A list of MMORPG Questions Dave Kennerly
- A list of MMORPG Questions Corey Crawford
- A list of MMORPG Questions Koster, Raph
- A list of MMORPG Questions Jeff Freeman
- A list of MMORPG Questions Eric Rhea
- A list of MMORPG Questions Lee Sheldon
- A list of MMORPG Questions Koster, Raph
- A list of MMORPG Questions Eric Rhea
- A list of MMORPG Questions Koster, Raph
- A list of MMORPG Questions Sage
- Distro for Intricate / Numerous Mobs Hulbert, Leland
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion Yves K
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion olag@ifi.uio.no
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion John Vanderbeck
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion Tess Snider
- Levels of immersion Tess Lowe
- Levels of immersion Travis Casey
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion Travis Casey
- Levels of immersion Tess Snider
- Levels of immersion Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion Tess Snider
- Levels of immersion Jeff Freeman
- Levels of immersion Tess Lowe
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion Jeff Freeman
- Levels of immersion Travis Casey
- Levels of immersion olag@ifi.uio.no
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion msew
- Levels of immersion J C Lawrence
- Permadeath Nigel Chapman
- Permadeath Tess Snider
- Permadeath Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- History of a Game Christopher Allen
- Levels of immersion (Warning LONG) John Vanderbeck
- NPC Goals ( Was: Dynamic Timelines) Lord Ashon
- NPC Goals ( Was: Dynamic Timelines) Travis Casey
- NPC Goals ( Was: Dynamic Timelines) Lord Ashon
- Interesting EQ rant Tess Lowe
- New stuff on my site Koster, Raph
- New stuff on my site John Vanderbeck
- Tile Editor for MUD? Corey Crawford
- Moving away from the level based system John Vanderbeck
- Moving away from the level based system Corey Crawford
- Moving away from the level based system John Vanderbeck
- Moving away from the level based system Phillip Lenhardt
- Moving away from the level based system Dave Rickey
- Moving away from the level based system rayzam
- Moving away from the level based system John Buehler
- Moving away from the level based system msew
- Moving away from the level based system John Buehler
- Moving away from the level based system Jeff Freeman
- Moving away from the level based system John Buehler
- Moving away from the level based system Jeff Freeman
- Moving away from the level based system Phillip Lenhardt
- Moving away from the level based system Mike Warning
- Moving away from the level based system John Vanderbeck
- Moving away from the level based system rayzam
- Moving away from the level based system John Vanderbeck
- Moving away from the level based system Gabriel
- Moving away from the level based system Ron Moore
- Moving away from the level based system Corey Crawford
- Moving away from the level based system Jon Morrow
- Moving away from the level based system Batir
- Moving away from the level based system Ron Moore
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Moving away from the level based system Christopher Allen
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Moving away from the level based system David Bennett
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Moving away from the level based system John Buehler
- Moving away from the level based system gmiller@classic-games.com
- Moving away from the level based system Hulbert, Leland
- Moving away from the level based system Kwon Ekstrom
- Moving away from the level based system John Buehler
- Moving away from the level based system Jeff Freeman
- Moving away from the level based system Tess Lowe
- Moving away from the level based system Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Moving away from the level based system Jeff Freeman
- Moving away from the level based system Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Moving away from the level based system Szii
- Moving away from the level based system Gabriel
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Moving away from the level based system Kwon Ekstrom
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Moving away from the level based system Hulbert, Leland
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Dealing with high-level characters. Zak Jarvis
- Speaking of Everquest... Ananda Dawnsinger
- Magic systems, was: Moving away from the level based system Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- Immersion Types (was Levels of Immersion) Tess Lowe
- Immersion Types (was Levels of Immersion) Jeff Freeman
- Text Parsers szii@sziisoft.com
- Text Parsers Darren Henderson
- Text Parsers Travis Casey
- Text Parsers Nathan F.Yospe
- Re:Text Parsers szii@sziisoft.com
- EQ Crawling (was: Permadeath or Not?) Mike Warning
- EQ Crawling (was: Permadeath or Not?) Jeff Freeman
- Building a New MUD Ron
- Building a New MUD SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- NPC grouping (LONG) Hulbert, Leland
- NPC grouping (LONG) ling@kanga.nu
- NPC grouping (LONG) Hulbert, Leland
- Level-less skill systems John W Pierce
- Forks or Frameworks? Gavin Doughtie
- Forks or Frameworks? Bryce Harrington
- Forks or Frameworks? Bryce Harrington
- Forks or Frameworks? szii@sziisoft.com
- Forks or Frameworks? Thomas, Chris
- Forks or Frameworks? Matthew Mihaly
- Forks or Frameworks? Tess Snider
- Forks or Frameworks? Bryce Harrington
- Forks or Frameworks? Koster, Raph
- Forks or Frameworks? bruce@puremagic.com
- Forks or Frameworks? Travis Casey
- Forks or Frameworks? Bryce Harrington
- Forks or Frameworks? Travis Casey
- Forks or Frameworks? Matthew Mihaly
- Forks or Frameworks? Dave Rickey
- Forks or Frameworks? Travis Casey
- Forks or Frameworks? Matthew Mihaly
- Forks or Frameworks? Travis Casey
- Forks or Frameworks? Tess Snider
- Forks or Frameworks? Jon Morrow
- Forks or Frameworks? Matthew Mihaly
- Forks or Frameworks? Koster, Raph
- Forks or Frameworks? Matthew Mihaly
- Forks or Frameworks? Kwon Ekstrom
- Forks or Frameworks? gmiller@classic-games.com
- Forks or Frameworks? Travis Casey
- LPC text parser Travis Casey
- "Exclusion" in Asimov's Greg Miller
- New Skill System Phil O'Donnell
- New Skill System John W Pierce
- New Skill System jsmithn@hotmail.com
- New Skill System gmiller@classic-games.com
- New Skill System John Buehler
- New Skill System Koster, Raph
- New Skill System John Buehler
- New Skill System Madrona Tree
- New Skill System gmiller@classic-games.com
- New Skill System Jon Morrow
- Curing skill spam (was: Moving away from the level based system) z032383@students.niu.edu
- Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Andrew Snelling
- Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Chris Lloyd
- Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Travis Casey
Tuesday, January 09, 2001, 4:49:47 PM, Chris Lloyd <crl199@soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>> From: mud-dev-admin@kanga.nu [mailto:mud-dev-admin@kanga.nu]On Behalf Of
>> Andrew Snelling
>> There would, of course, be no guarantee a player would lose the
>> extra items to a thief, but no guarantee she wouldn't,
>> either. There is a notable difference here from the UO theft model,
>> which allowed only PvP theft (although house robberies were still
>> common, despite all attempts to code them out of existence). It
>> shifts away from the confrontational aspects of thievery, and gives
>> thieves a clear economic role in the system, and a justification.
> This has always been a problem - A thief with a 1% chance of picking
> a lock will just do it 100 times until he gets in.
Small math correction: a thief with a 1% chance of picking a lock
will, on average, have to try it 458 times before getting in (that's
the point at which there will be a 50% chance that the thief has been
successful).
However, there's no reason why this *has* to be the case. One could
adopt the Arduin rule -- that if a thief tries to pick a lock, and
doesn't succeed, that thief *cannot* pick that lock no matter how many
times he/she tries, unless and until the thief gets a better chance to
pick the lock.
(Conversely, in Arduin, if a thief picks a lock successfully, that
thief will *always* pick that lock successfully, unless and until the
thief tries it while having a lower chance to pick the lock.)
This does require a good deal of storage to keep track of which locks
the thief has tried, what the result was, and what the thief's skill
was at the time, but it does solve the problem of lockpick-spamming.
Of course, you could also adopt more complex rules. For example, many
paper RPGs have critical successes and failures, which happen when one
rolls extremely well or extremely poorly. With that, one might decide
that a critical success gives "automatic pick" ability as above, and a
critical failure "can't pick" as above. A typical paper RPG rule is
that the chance of a critical in either direction is 10% of your
chance of that happening. Thus, if a character has a 1% chance to
pick a lock, and you're using percentile dice, an 01 would be success,
02-90 failure, and 91+ critical failure. Spamming the lock with such
a low chance of success, then, would generally wind up with the player
getting a critical failure and no longer having any chance of success.
There are also other things you could do with critical failures... for
example, a critical failure might indicate that you've broken your
lockpick off inside the lock. You have to buy a new lockpick, and the
owner of the house is going to know that someone's been trying to
break into the safe... and, in a magical world, might be able to get a
wizard to cast a spell to find out who that lockpick part belonged to.
Another alternative is to use a difficulty system with automatic
failures: if your effective lockpick skill is low enough compared to
the difficulty of the lock, you simply can't pick it. Spamming with a
0% chance of success isn't going to get you anywhere.
> Here, it is common knowledge that the items can be stolen, and the
> owner is taking a risk by having them stored in this way. He accepts
> that his place might get burgled. In order to stop the
> lockpick-spamming, instead use some sort of finite resource to do
> the job.
> Example 1:
> Lets say a lock on a strongbox has 100 health.
> A lockpick can take 10 health away from the door.
> A lockpick costs 100 gold coins.
> So... Is the loot in the locked chest worth more than 1000 gold coins?
> You can only find out by picking the lock and looking inside.
> This way the price of getting in is basically the same for everyone,
> and not time-dependant or luck-dependant.
A problem, though -- this breaks realism. For some folks, that's not
a concern, of course; for others, however, it is. To me, it makes
much more sense to have a chance that a lockpick breaks on a failure
-- lockpicks do break sometimes. That's another way of having finite
resources, but one that isn't so hard on suspension of disbelief.
Something else would be to have different tools for picking different
kinds of locks... the tools for harder lock types would be more
expensive. A simple skeleton key might suffice for cheap locks,
harder locks might require picks, a combination lock might require a
stethoscope to help hear the clicks, etc.
> Example 2:
> There's a castle with a strongbox inside.
> An ogre thief breaks into the castle, and gets to the strongbox.
> He wants to get inside, and he knows the guards/owners are coming
> back soon, so instead of picking the lock on the spot, he picks up
> the box and runs off with it.
> He picks the lock when he gets to his hideout - And it costs the
> same amount of resources as if he picked it in the castle.
Here's something else that's often missing from the "lockpick problem"
on muds, though -- the question of time. In the real world, picking a
lock takes time -- sometimes a lot of time. On a mud, making an
attempt at picking a lock generally takes no more time than it takes
to type the command and hit return, or to click the mouse. Make it
take some time, and it becomes much less practical for someone to try
to spam lockpicking.
Even if, say, you make it so that a lockpick attempt takes 10 seconds
of real time, that guy with the 1% lockpick chance is going to have to
spend an average of 4580 seconds to pick a lock... about an hour and
17 minutes.
>> Also key to this system is the ability to 'punish' caught thieves, ie,
>> those who try to steal things far beyond their skill, in such a manner
>> as to keep them out of your hair for a certain period of time, but
>> that's a whole other set of ideas...
> Thieves can be enemies from cities or towns. Players get peeved if you
> lock them up, so large fines will have to do. And no one likes a thief
> - Hopefully players won't trust him any more.
Also, if a thief has been caught before, others might refuse to hire
him/her for jobs -- who wants to hire a thief who isn't even good at
it?
For extra fun, have cops who pressure thieves to "talk" about who sold
them the lockpicks, who they're working for, etc. If they'll talk,
they may be able to get off or get a lighter sentence... but they may
also make enemies. If word gets around that a thief squealed on
someone who sold him a set of lockpicks, he's going to have a hard
time finding anyone to sell him another set.
--
|\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel@earthlink.net>
ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) - Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Chris Lloyd
- Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Andrew Snelling
- Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Travis Casey
- Curing skill spam (was: Moving away from the level based system) Phil Hall
- Must infrastructure dictate content? (was: Forks or Frameworks) Gavin Doughtie
- Virtual Communities olag@ifi.uio.no
- Virtual Communities Jon Morrow
- Virtual Communities msew
- Curing skill spam (was: Moving away from the level base system) Scatter
- Curing skill spam (was: Moving away from the level base system) z032383@students.niu.edu
- Curing skill spam (was: Moving away from the level base system) Batir
- Ray Feist interview Koster, Raph
- Ray Feist interview John Buehler
- Ray Feist interview David Loeser
- Ray Feist interview John Vanderbeck
- Ray Feist interview John Buehler
- Ray Feist interview Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Ray Feist interview Travis Casey
- Ray Feist interview Lee Sheldon
- Ray Feist interview Travis Casey
- Ray Feist interview Fredfish {E. Harper}
- Ray Feist interview Lee Sheldon
- Ray Feist interview Lee Sheldon
- Storytelling Games [was: Ray Feist interview] Christopher Allen
- Curing skill spam Dan
- Curing skill spam Travis Casey
- Curing skill spam Jon Lambert
- Curing skill spam Alistair Milne