December 2000
- Components and Inheritence Jon Lambert
- Components and Inheritence John Buehler
- Components and Inheritence Jon Lambert
- Cash for Lawsuits UCMM Administration
- Cash for Lawsuits Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Cash for Lawsuits Patrick Dughi
- Cash for Lawsuits Matthew D. Fuller
- Cash for Lawsuits Patrick Dughi
- Cash for Lawsuits Matthew Mihaly
- Cash for Lawsuits Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- Cash for Lawsuits Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- Cash for Lawsuits Alex
- Names (was: An essay on d00dz ...) Marian Griffith
- Names (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") gmiller@classic-games.com
- Names (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Travis Casey
- New and looking for a good place to get started... Graham Reitz
- New and looking for a good place to get started... Peter
- New and looking for a good place to get started... Corey Crawford
- New and looking for a good place to get started... Patrick Dughi
- New and looking for a good place to get started... J C Lawrence
- New and looking for a good place to get started... Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Permadeath or Not? Corey Crawford
- Permadeath or Not? John Buehler
- Permadeath or Not? Jeff Freeman
- Permadeath or Not? Ben Chambers
- Permadeath or Not? John Buehler
- Permadeath or Not? Travis Nixon
- Permadeath or Not? Corey Crawford
- Permadeath or Not? John Buehler
- Permadeath or Not? Madrona Tree
- Permadeath or Not? John Buehler
- Permadeath or Not? Travis Casey
- Permadeath or Not? Jeff Freeman
- Permadeath or Not? Travis Casey
- Permadeath or Not? Travis Nixon
- Permadeath or Not? Zak Jarvis
- Permadeath or Not? Koster, Raph
- Permadeath or Not? Vincent Archer
- Permadeath or Not? Koster, Raph
- Permadeath or Not? Dave Rickey
- Permadeath or Not? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Permadeath or Not? Jeff Freeman
- Permadeath or Not? Batir
- Permadeath or Not? Koster, Raph
- Permadeath or Not? Jeff Freeman
- Permadeath or Not? Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Permadeath or Not? Kwon Ekstrom
- Permadeath or Not? Jeff Freeman
- Permadeath or Not? J. Eric Townsend
- Permadeath or Not? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Permadeath or Not? Travis Casey
- Permadeath or Not? John Buehler
- Permadeath or Not? Madrona Tree
- Permadeath or Not? Marian Griffith
- Permadeath or Not? rayzam
- Greetings from Organelle o. rchaeus
- Diku & GPL Patrick Dughi
- Diku & GPL Jon Lambert
- Diku & GPL Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- Diku & GPL Jon Lambert
- Diku & GPL J C Lawrence
- Diku & GPL Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- Diku & GPL Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Diku & GPL Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Diku & GPL Vincent Archer
- Diku & GPL gmiller@classic-games.com
- Diku & GPL Lars Duening
- Diku & GPL Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Diku & GPL Alex
- Diku & GPL Corey Crawford
- Diku & GPL George Greer
- Current Server Versions (was: "New and looking for a good place to get started...") Corey Crawford
- Current Server Versions Corey Crawford
- Current Server Versions J C Lawrence
- A list of MMORPG Questions Eric Rhea
- A list of MMORPG Questions Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- A list of MMORPG Questions Jeff Freeman
- A list of MMORPG Questions Vincent Archer
- A list of MMORPG Questions J C Lawrence
- A list of MMORPG Questions Marc Bowden
- A list of MMORPG Questions Dave Rickey
- A list of MMORPG Questions John Szeder
- A list of MMORPG Questions Dave Kennerly
- A list of MMORPG Questions Corey Crawford
- A list of MMORPG Questions Koster, Raph
- A list of MMORPG Questions Jeff Freeman
- A list of MMORPG Questions Eric Rhea
- A list of MMORPG Questions Lee Sheldon
- A list of MMORPG Questions Koster, Raph
- A list of MMORPG Questions Eric Rhea
- A list of MMORPG Questions Koster, Raph
- A list of MMORPG Questions Sage
- Distro for Intricate / Numerous Mobs Hulbert, Leland
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion Yves K
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion olag@ifi.uio.no
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion John Vanderbeck
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion Tess Snider
- Levels of immersion Tess Lowe
- Levels of immersion Travis Casey
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion Travis Casey
- Levels of immersion Tess Snider
- Levels of immersion Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion Tess Snider
- Levels of immersion Jeff Freeman
- Levels of immersion Tess Lowe
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion Jeff Freeman
- Levels of immersion Travis Casey
- Levels of immersion olag@ifi.uio.no
- Levels of immersion Richard A. Bartle
- Levels of immersion msew
- Levels of immersion J C Lawrence
- Permadeath Nigel Chapman
- Permadeath Tess Snider
- Permadeath Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- History of a Game Christopher Allen
- Levels of immersion (Warning LONG) John Vanderbeck
- NPC Goals ( Was: Dynamic Timelines) Lord Ashon
- NPC Goals ( Was: Dynamic Timelines) Travis Casey
Monday, December 11, 2000, 1:52:30 PM, Lord Ashon <ashon@wsunix.wsu.edu> wrote:
>> - Making NPCs behave in a consistent way. This requires the system
>> to know things about the NPCs. E.g., if Bubba has a goal "marry
>> Buffy", then if Bubba's first scheme to do that is thwarted, it
>> makes sense that he'll try another one later. If Bubba goes after
>> a different princess every few months, things will seem less
>> consistent.
> This statement I agree completely. The Mobile's _must_ know a couple of
> things:
> - They Must Know their Own Goals
> - They Must know the 'shape' of the World
> - They Must know how to get things done.
Question: What do you mean by "the 'shape' of the world"? My guess
would be that they need to have a way to check on current world-state,
but I'm not sure that that's what you mean.
>> Attitudes tell how an NPC feels about things. Some attitudes may
>> stand alone, while others require an object. For example,
>> "violent" can stand on its own, but "desires" needs to have an
>> object for that desire. So, Bubba the Evil Warrior might have
>> these attitudes:
>> - desires Princess Buffy
>> - dislikes Buffy's Father
>> - violent
>> - dishonorable
>> - desires money
>> - desires followers
>> - hates paladins
> What if we start at even a more basic level. Erwin S. Andreasen,
> and Brandon Downey came up with a Bartle-Quotient test.
> (http://www.andreasen.org/bartle/) To determine what 'suit' players
> fit into on a mud. It seems logical to me that we should do the
> same to for the NPC's. We can then use these to determine what
> type's of activities and the NPC is most likely to participate in.
Bartle's four divisions seem overly simplistic to me, especially when
dealing with NPCs. Take Achievers, for example; they desire power
(higher levels, more goodies, etc) -- but people in the real world
don't usually want power simply to have power, they want it for a
*purpose*. You could class an NPC as an achiever, but that doesn't
give you much by itself -- what's that NPC going to *do* with the
power they gain?
To me, it seems that Bartle's divisions are answers to the question
"How will X go about achieving their goals", but they don't help us
decide what those goals are. (Well, to some extent, they do, but it's
a very vague guide at best.)
> Passions
> This is perhaps one of the most innovative ideas that I have heard
> of in dealing with NPCs If we use the Bartle Suits to give 'weight'
> to a set of passions, and then randomize it to give it a little
> variability, we can match or 'shift' the direction of our npc's If
> we have to many killer NPC's/Players we can give weight to the
> algorithm to shift more of the npc's to an explorer or achiever
> goal.
Instead of thinking of these as goals, I think it might make more
sense to think of them as methods.
For example, a character might have a goal of "defend my village from
the orcs". An achiever might try to gain enough personal power to
defend the village. An explorer might seek a new place for the
village to move to. A socialiser might try to talk to the orcs, or to
organize a defense. A killer might go on the offensive, trying to
destroy the orcs.
>> Major and minor characters: Characters who have many strong
>> personality traits and the capabilities to do something with them
>> would be more likely to be have scenarios centered around them than
>> other characters. This creates a natural division of NPCS into
>> major and minor characters. Allowing for scenarios to change an
>> NPC's personality traits and/or capabilities can allow the status
>> of an NPC to change over time.
> To make the system work and feel dynamic, this would be a necessity.
> We would have to be able to have minor characters who can rise to
> major character. But, you could and shouldn't ever do it in
> reverse. A Major Character that plot is canceled and they are
> thrown off their seats of power, they can still work on re-building
> their previous position and hunting down the Player that did.
I think that "major" and "minor" status is a dynamic thing. A "major"
character who loses their status might temporarily become a "minor"
character, but that's not necessarily a permanent condition -- if/when
that character gains power again, it can become major again.
To me, "major" and "minor" for NPCs are more designations of what
paper RPGers sometimes call "spotlight time" than anything else -- how
much of the "focus" does this character get? This can naturally
change over time.
For that matter, allowing major characters to slip to minor status and
then recover can add additional interest and color to the game world.
Let's take our old friend Bubba the Evil Warrior as an example:
Bubba goes after Princess Buffy by starting a war. Bubba's army gets
trounced, and, worse yet, the fact that he's doing this for love of
Buffy gets out. The evil hordes don't want to follow him any more,
and he loses his army. Without the hordes to defend it, Bubba rapidly
loses his castle and treasury, but escapes with his life.
So, what does Bubba do now? There are lots of possibilities. He
could sign on with another evil character as a henchman. If he's been
disgraced badly enough, he might be relegated to a low-status position
as a guard for some other evil character. He might become depressed
and sit in a tavern and write bad love poetry about Buffy for a while.
In any of these cases, he's no longer a "major" character right now,
but he has the possibility of becoming one again later. Personally, I
think this sort of thing adds life to a game world -- it reinforces
the idea that these are *people*, not just playing pieces for the
admins.
>> PC involvement: Plots could be generated with PCs as objects --
>> e.g., Bubba might put a price on the head of a PC who thwarted his
>> plans, causing the system to search for NPC mercenaries who might
>> decide to go after that PC. I'm not sure how good an idea this
>> would be -- it allows for "natural" solutions to certain problems
>> (like paladins who are misbehaving), and can reward PCs who take an
>> active interest in doing things on the mud by giving them more
>> attention. On the minus side, however, it may focus too much
>> attention on those characters.
> Players need to be an integral part of the Plots. If Bubba is
> trying to destroy a certain temple, He should know how powerful it
> is (How many players attend there) and know that it will make it
> more difficult. So he will go about trying to frame others for the
> job. Or even to go so far as to hire players to be a part of his
> plot. Bubba hires a group to raid a guildhall, and bring him back a
> specific Item, which he will use to destroy the temple. or
> whatever.
I'm not sure that I'd accept this as true of all plots. First off,
there are always ways for players to become involved -- they can kill
one of the principle characters in the plot, try to prevent a plot
from succeeding, etc. Secondly, I think there is value in having a
few plots that aren't necessarily of direct interest to the players --
not a lot of them, just a few. For example, a good knight might fall
in love with Buffy and ask for her hand in marriage, and Buffy accept.
This may not involve any players in any direct way, but the simple
fact that some things happen without player involvement will go a long
way towards making a world seem more real.
--
|\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel@earthlink.net>
ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) - NPC Goals ( Was: Dynamic Timelines) Lord Ashon
- NPC Goals ( Was: Dynamic Timelines) Travis Casey
- Interesting EQ rant Tess Lowe
- New stuff on my site Koster, Raph
- New stuff on my site John Vanderbeck
- Tile Editor for MUD? Corey Crawford
- Moving away from the level based system John Vanderbeck
- Moving away from the level based system Corey Crawford
- Moving away from the level based system John Vanderbeck
- Moving away from the level based system Phillip Lenhardt
- Moving away from the level based system Dave Rickey
- Moving away from the level based system rayzam
- Moving away from the level based system John Buehler
- Moving away from the level based system msew
- Moving away from the level based system John Buehler
- Moving away from the level based system Jeff Freeman
- Moving away from the level based system John Buehler
- Moving away from the level based system Jeff Freeman
- Moving away from the level based system Phillip Lenhardt
- Moving away from the level based system Mike Warning
- Moving away from the level based system John Vanderbeck
- Moving away from the level based system rayzam
- Moving away from the level based system John Vanderbeck
- Moving away from the level based system Gabriel
- Moving away from the level based system Ron Moore
- Moving away from the level based system Corey Crawford
- Moving away from the level based system Jon Morrow
- Moving away from the level based system Batir
- Moving away from the level based system Ron Moore
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Moving away from the level based system Christopher Allen
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Moving away from the level based system David Bennett
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Moving away from the level based system John Buehler
- Moving away from the level based system gmiller@classic-games.com
- Moving away from the level based system Hulbert, Leland
- Moving away from the level based system Kwon Ekstrom
- Moving away from the level based system John Buehler
- Moving away from the level based system Jeff Freeman
- Moving away from the level based system Tess Lowe
- Moving away from the level based system Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Moving away from the level based system Jeff Freeman
- Moving away from the level based system Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Moving away from the level based system Szii
- Moving away from the level based system Gabriel
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Moving away from the level based system Kwon Ekstrom
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Moving away from the level based system Hulbert, Leland
- Moving away from the level based system Travis Casey
- Dealing with high-level characters. Zak Jarvis
- Speaking of Everquest... Ananda Dawnsinger
- Magic systems, was: Moving away from the level based system Richard.Woolcock@rsuk.rohde-schwarz.com
- Immersion Types (was Levels of Immersion) Tess Lowe
- Immersion Types (was Levels of Immersion) Jeff Freeman
- Text Parsers szii@sziisoft.com
- Text Parsers Darren Henderson
- Text Parsers Travis Casey
- Text Parsers Nathan F.Yospe
- Re:Text Parsers szii@sziisoft.com
- EQ Crawling (was: Permadeath or Not?) Mike Warning
- EQ Crawling (was: Permadeath or Not?) Jeff Freeman
- Building a New MUD Ron
- Building a New MUD SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- NPC grouping (LONG) Hulbert, Leland
- NPC grouping (LONG) ling@kanga.nu
- NPC grouping (LONG) Hulbert, Leland
- Level-less skill systems John W Pierce
- Forks or Frameworks? Gavin Doughtie
- Forks or Frameworks? Bryce Harrington
- Forks or Frameworks? Bryce Harrington
- Forks or Frameworks? szii@sziisoft.com
- Forks or Frameworks? Thomas, Chris
- Forks or Frameworks? Matthew Mihaly
- Forks or Frameworks? Tess Snider
- Forks or Frameworks? Bryce Harrington
- Forks or Frameworks? Koster, Raph
- Forks or Frameworks? bruce@puremagic.com
- Forks or Frameworks? Travis Casey
- Forks or Frameworks? Bryce Harrington
- Forks or Frameworks? Travis Casey
- Forks or Frameworks? Matthew Mihaly
- Forks or Frameworks? Dave Rickey
- Forks or Frameworks? Travis Casey
- Forks or Frameworks? Matthew Mihaly
- Forks or Frameworks? Travis Casey
- Forks or Frameworks? Tess Snider
- Forks or Frameworks? Jon Morrow
- Forks or Frameworks? Matthew Mihaly
- Forks or Frameworks? Koster, Raph
- Forks or Frameworks? Matthew Mihaly
- Forks or Frameworks? Kwon Ekstrom
- Forks or Frameworks? gmiller@classic-games.com
- Forks or Frameworks? Travis Casey
- LPC text parser Travis Casey
- "Exclusion" in Asimov's Greg Miller
- New Skill System Phil O'Donnell
- New Skill System John W Pierce
- New Skill System jsmithn@hotmail.com
- New Skill System gmiller@classic-games.com
- New Skill System John Buehler
- New Skill System Koster, Raph
- New Skill System John Buehler
- New Skill System Madrona Tree
- New Skill System gmiller@classic-games.com
- New Skill System Jon Morrow
- Curing skill spam (was: Moving away from the level based system) z032383@students.niu.edu
- Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Andrew Snelling
- Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Chris Lloyd
- Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Travis Casey
- Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Chris Lloyd
- Locker/Theft/Anti-Hoarding System Idea Andrew Snelling
- Curing skill spam (was: Moving away from the level based system) Phil Hall
- Must infrastructure dictate content? (was: Forks or Frameworks) Gavin Doughtie
- Virtual Communities olag@ifi.uio.no
- Virtual Communities Jon Morrow
- Virtual Communities msew
- Curing skill spam (was: Moving away from the level base system) Scatter
- Curing skill spam (was: Moving away from the level base system) z032383@students.niu.edu
- Curing skill spam (was: Moving away from the level base system) Batir
- Ray Feist interview Koster, Raph
- Ray Feist interview John Buehler
- Ray Feist interview David Loeser
- Ray Feist interview John Vanderbeck
- Ray Feist interview John Buehler
- Ray Feist interview Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Ray Feist interview Travis Casey
- Ray Feist interview Lee Sheldon
- Ray Feist interview Travis Casey
- Ray Feist interview Fredfish {E. Harper}
- Ray Feist interview Lee Sheldon
- Ray Feist interview Lee Sheldon
- Storytelling Games [was: Ray Feist interview] Christopher Allen
- Curing skill spam Dan
- Curing skill spam Travis Casey
- Curing skill spam Jon Lambert
- Curing skill spam Alistair Milne