October 2000
- Interactive Fiction Competition 2000 Aaron Mitchell
- trade skill idea msew
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea msew
- trade skill idea Travis Casey
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Zak Jarvis
- trade skill idea John Buehler
- trade skill idea Dave Rickey
- trade skill idea Zak Jarvis
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Mordengaard
- trade skill idea Richard Tew
- trade skill idea Val Trullinger
- trade skill idea Phillip Lenhardt
- trade skill idea John Buehler
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea msew
- trade skill idea Wes Connell
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea Brad Wyble
- trade skill idea Vincent Archer
- trade skill idea Jeff Freeman
- trade skill idea Corey Crawford
- trade skill idea Yves K
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Tamzen Cannoy
- trade skill idea Robert Zubek
- trade skill idea Patrick Dughi
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- trade skill idea msew
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea msew
- trade skill idea Batir
- trade skill idea Arabis2000@aol.com
- Open Source 3D Interactive World Server Ian Macintosh
- Reactive keyboard J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #243 - 14 msgs Dr. Cat
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Madman Across the Water
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? sverre@munthe.net
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Jeff Freeman
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Matthew Mihaly
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Marc Bowden
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Zak Jarvis
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Madman Across the Water
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Vincent Archer
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Dave Rickey
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Mud / Web Integeration Lee Hulbert
- Mud / Web Integeration Wes Connell
- Mud / Web Integeration Bruce
- Mud / Web Integeration Bruce
- Mud / Web Integeration KevinL
- Mud / Web Integeration msew
- Mud / Web Integeration msew
- Mud / Web Integeration Richard Tew
- Mud / Web Integeration Nathan F. Yospe
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars sverre@munthe.net
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Justin Rogers
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Andy
- OT: Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- OT: Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Grandmaster Nuclear Safety Technicion or Grandmaster Warrior ( was John Szeder
- Alternate Means of EQUAL Enjoyment (formerly trade skill idea) Geoffrey MacDougall
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Richard Tew
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Zak Jarvis
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Inq Admin
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Richard Tew
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Matthew Mihaly
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Koster, Raph
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Richard Tew
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Matthew Mihaly
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Richard Tew
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Inq Admin
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain William McCarroll
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Matthew Mihaly
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Mordengaard
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Justin Rogers
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Matthew Mihaly
- Grandmaster Nuclear Safety Technicion or Grandmaster Willowreed@aol.com
- [world-create] Progressive Aristocracy (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [world-create] Progressive Aristocracy (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- VRML Richard Tew
- Admin: System outage J C Lawrence
- absolute vs. relative coords KevinL
- absolute vs. relative coords Inq Admin
- absolute vs. relative coords Nathan F. Yospe
- ADMIN: More troubles I'm afraid, and the details of the recovery. J C Lawrence
- integrated character webpages ala Black and White creature pages msew
- integrated character webpages ala Black and White creature pages msew
- Admin: Kang.Nu troubles J C Lawrence
- Admin: Kanga.Nu troubles... J C Lawrence
- travel times (commercial/graphical vs grassroots/text) Fredfish {E. Harper}
- travel times (commercial/graphical vs grassroots/text) the_logos@www.achaea.com
On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Fredfish (E. Harper) wrote:
> I don't really think the distinction between 'graphical muds' and
> 'text muds' which you are talking about has much to do with
> graphics. Lest you think I am consuming mind-altering drugs, let me
> explain.
> - Graphical muds are (as far as I know) exclusively commercial
> undertakings, with the explicit aim (at least among the people in
> charge) of making money. Text muds are (mostly) grassroots hobby
> efforts, with aims such as - as Jeremy Elson put it re writing
> Circlemud, 'adding to the coolness inherent in the universe, if
> only by a small amount'.
That's true, if you ignore the fact that all the biggest text muds are
commercial.
> - If you want to make money you need a lot of players. Like, a
> LOT. If you want to add to the universe's coolness, 30 players at
> a time is plenty.
No you don't. 100 online at a time is enough.
> - Getting a lot of players requires you to cater to the whims of
> the masses. Getting 30 players requires you to have something a
> few like-minded individuals can share and appreciate.
Everquest has been called Diku with graphics. I'd have to agree with
that. However, it's Diku with a _lot_ more features than most Dikus
and WAY more production value than any Diku has ever had. That's no
slur on the Diku creators. They were hobbyists. Verant had millions.
> - The masses are stupid.*
> Ergo,
> To make a succsesful graphical mud you must cater to the whims of
> the stupid.
Yes. Clearly an argument based on the first generation of real
commercial products is how one should judge an entire
genre. Similarly, one would, of course, want to judge all movies by
the first silent movies.
Graphical muds are niche products. They do not appeal to the
masses. 300k subscribers is _not_ the masses. It is, in fact, the
techno-elite of the planet. 50% of the planet's population has not
even made a phone call.
Movies come closer to appealing to the masses, and they manage to
occasionally appeal to the masses as well as possess a certain level
of subtlety.
> Now, I'm not suggesting projects like EQ, UO, et al are crap. They
> aren't, it's just that I feel, and I think most of the people on
> this list will agree with me, that you compromise quality to some
> degree when you make something designed to appeal to the masses. An
> example - (at risk of drawing a meta-argument into this) - the first
> Star Wars kicked ass. It wasn't supposed to be a mega-hit. By
> comparison, The Phantom Menace was a tepid monstrosity of mega-CG
> and pup-cultural kitch. (Meesa Jar-Jar Binks! Meesa help George
> Lucassa shovel money into coffers!) Whether or not you feel SW1 was
> crap, you have to admit it would have been a lot better without the
> cutesy elements. (I remember someone saying 'It kicked ass! The only
> parts I didn't like were the end and all the parts with Anakin.)
You compromise quality? It depends on how you define quality. The
average Circle or Diku has a level of quality that is simply
abominable. UO/EQ/AC beat the pants off any text mud in terms of
quality of execution. I think to argue otherwise is to overlook the
ridiculously poor production quality of most text muds.
--matt
- travel times (commercial/graphical vs grassroots/text) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Admin: We're back in business J C Lawrence
- Triangular Damage Infliction System Ben
- Triangular Damage Infliction System Ben Chambers
- Triangular Damage Infliction System Travis Casey
- Fwd: absolute vs. relative coords Nathan F.Yospe
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Christopher Allen
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Chris Lloyd
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? tanis@mediacom.it
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Christopher Allen
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Federico Di Gregorio
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Christopher Allen
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Frank Crowell
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Frank Crowell
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Christopher Allen