October 2000
- Interactive Fiction Competition 2000 Aaron Mitchell
- trade skill idea msew
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea msew
- trade skill idea Travis Casey
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Zak Jarvis
- trade skill idea John Buehler
- trade skill idea Dave Rickey
- trade skill idea Zak Jarvis
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Mordengaard
- trade skill idea Richard Tew
- trade skill idea Val Trullinger
- trade skill idea Phillip Lenhardt
- trade skill idea John Buehler
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea msew
- trade skill idea Wes Connell
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea Brad Wyble
- trade skill idea Vincent Archer
- trade skill idea Jeff Freeman
- trade skill idea Corey Crawford
- trade skill idea Yves K
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Tamzen Cannoy
- trade skill idea Robert Zubek
- trade skill idea Patrick Dughi
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- trade skill idea msew
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea Josh Olson
- trade skill idea Matthew Mihaly
- trade skill idea Koster, Raph
- trade skill idea msew
- trade skill idea Batir
- trade skill idea Arabis2000@aol.com
- Open Source 3D Interactive World Server Ian Macintosh
- Reactive keyboard J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #243 - 14 msgs Dr. Cat
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Madman Across the Water
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? sverre@munthe.net
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Jeff Freeman
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Matthew Mihaly
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Marc Bowden
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Zak Jarvis
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Madman Across the Water
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Vincent Archer
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Dave Rickey
- Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Mud / Web Integeration Lee Hulbert
- Mud / Web Integeration Wes Connell
- Mud / Web Integeration Bruce
- Mud / Web Integeration Bruce
- Mud / Web Integeration KevinL
- Mud / Web Integeration msew
- Mud / Web Integeration msew
- Mud / Web Integeration Richard Tew
- Mud / Web Integeration Nathan F. Yospe
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars sverre@munthe.net
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Matthew Mihaly
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Justin Rogers
- Declaration of the Rights of Avatars Andy
- OT: Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- OT: Banning Players for Off-Site Activities? Ananda Dawnsinger
- Grandmaster Nuclear Safety Technicion or Grandmaster Warrior ( was John Szeder
- Alternate Means of EQUAL Enjoyment (formerly trade skill idea) Geoffrey MacDougall
I thought this thread had drifted sufficiently to deserve a new subject.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mud-dev-admin@kanga.nu [mailto:mud-dev-admin@kanga.nu]On Behalf Of
> Koster, Raph
> Sent: October 6, 2000 12:44 AM
> To: 'mud-dev@kanga.nu'
> Subject: RE: [MUD-Dev] trade skill idea
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mud-dev-admin@kanga.nu
> > [mailto:mud-dev-admin@kanga.nu]On Behalf Of
> > Patrick Dughi
> > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:10 PM
> > To: mud-dev@kanga.nu
> > Subject: RE: [MUD-Dev] trade skill idea
> >
> > I know most people wouldn't want to spend their personal time
> > pretending to be an accountant or fry cook, or even a vaunted,
> much sought
> > after interior decorator role. Ask them if they want to get the
> credit for
> > potentially saving the world from a monster invasion though,
> and they get
> > glossy-eyed.
>
> I heard this argument before UO came out. It has already been disproven.
> *shrug* You don't need to understand why it is so (I don't) in order to
> observe empirical evidence.
"Good evening, everyone. My name is Geoffrey M., and I'm a lousy fighter."
Despite almost two decades of computer gaming, I have never been able to
develop the reaction times necessary to succeed in twitch games. I've also
had my butt kicked on numerous occasions by lower level characters who
figured out how to utilize their combat skills with much greater efficacy
than I was ever able to pull together. To top all this off - one of my
usual gaming partners is one of the best twitch players currently out there.
This guy can walk over the highest ranked players in Unreal Tournament while
watching TV - no exaggeration.
This all leads to my finding in-game combat pretty boring. I either die
right away, or follow around picking up after the better fighters in my
party.
As a result, I've been drawn to games that not only allow for alternate
roles, but allow for alternate roles through which can be attained levels of
enjoyment ( <-- more about this word in a moment) competitive with combat.
And before you begin to suspect me as the first gamer in history without an
ego-problem, I also look for games where those alternate roles can elicit
the same degree of respect and jealousy as afforded tank-mages.
Despite my impotence in the ways of the sword, I am pretty good at one
thing - finding novel uses for oddball, b-side skills. Hence why I was one
of the first GM Bards in UO that didn't simply macro Musicianship (SP?) for
the dex boost. I used to love running by groups of 15 decked-out warriors
prepping to kill a single Dragon, carrying nothing but a tamborine, only to
have them come across me 5-10 minutes later with 6 dragon corpses littering
the ground at my feet, or by getting back at PKers enticing their horses
into the middle of an orc camp.
Now - I realize that these are combat scenarios - but I used to derive just
as much enjoyment by entertaining at guild parties. I would be hired to
stand in a corner and play music for hours on end (which IRL consisted of
merely clicking on one instrument after another in rapid succession). I
enjoyed this not for its excitement, but because it was novel (at the time,
at least), and I was one of the only players in the game capable of doing
it, which derived a certain degree of respect from fellow gamers.
This is why I think it important that a clear distinction be drawn between
"Excitement" and "Enjoyment". I would argue that they are not the same - in
fact - excitement is nothing more than one of the many ways of achieving
enjoyment. And I believe it to be the task of any good designer to maximize
enjoyment through as many different avenues as possible. Excitement is
perhaps most useful, but it's definitely not the only way.
I'm also going to suggest a slightly more controversial idea - game
designers should not try to make every aspect of their game equally
appealing or profitable. If it was just as easy to achieve, in the
power-gamer sense of the word, by being a Bard as it was a by being a
Warrior, it would not have been there as an unused way for me to carve my
place within the game.
The same thing applies to trade skills. If someone spends all their time
double-clicking on mountains, but manages to establish the best equipped
weapons shop in the game, and derives a large degree of enjoyment from that
achievement - let them. Don't seek to make the less appealing things more
appealing so that they become dominated by better players.
I'm not very good at the popular stuff - so I master the other aspects of
the game where there is less competition. And in the end, while it may not
be as exciting, I derive the same levels of enjoyment.
Thoughts?
G. - Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Richard Tew
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Zak Jarvis
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Inq Admin
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Richard Tew
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Matthew Mihaly
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Koster, Raph
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Richard Tew
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Matthew Mihaly
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Richard Tew
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Inq Admin
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain William McCarroll
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Matthew Mihaly
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Mordengaard
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Justin Rogers
- Realistic travel times/virtual terrain Matthew Mihaly
- Grandmaster Nuclear Safety Technicion or Grandmaster Willowreed@aol.com
- [world-create] Progressive Aristocracy (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [world-create] Progressive Aristocracy (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- VRML Richard Tew
- Admin: System outage J C Lawrence
- absolute vs. relative coords KevinL
- absolute vs. relative coords Inq Admin
- absolute vs. relative coords Nathan F. Yospe
- ADMIN: More troubles I'm afraid, and the details of the recovery. J C Lawrence
- integrated character webpages ala Black and White creature pages msew
- integrated character webpages ala Black and White creature pages msew
- Admin: Kang.Nu troubles J C Lawrence
- Admin: Kanga.Nu troubles... J C Lawrence
- travel times (commercial/graphical vs grassroots/text) Fredfish {E. Harper}
- travel times (commercial/graphical vs grassroots/text) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Admin: We're back in business J C Lawrence
- Triangular Damage Infliction System Ben
- Triangular Damage Infliction System Ben Chambers
- Triangular Damage Infliction System Travis Casey
- Fwd: absolute vs. relative coords Nathan F.Yospe
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Christopher Allen
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Chris Lloyd
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? tanis@mediacom.it
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Christopher Allen
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Federico Di Gregorio
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Christopher Allen
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Frank Crowell
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Frank Crowell
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Christopher Allen