September 1999
- Battle Systems Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
- Battle Systems Richard Woolcock
- Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
- Battle Systems Richard Woolcock
- Battle Systems Mik Clarke
- Battle Systems Greg Miller
- Battle Systems Ben Greear
- Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
- Battle Systems Greg Miller
- Battle Systems Christopher Allen
- Battle Systems Batis
- Battle Systems Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Battle Systems Richard Ross
- Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
- semi-OT: Alan Cox is a MUD hacker Adam Wiggins
- semi-OT: Alan Cox is a MUD hacker Ben Greear
- Graphical Mud Design JT Herring
- Graphical Mud Design Chris Gray
- Graphical Mud Design David
- ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
- ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Chris Gray
- ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
- ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
- IMP (Interactive Mud Protocol?) Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- IMP (Interactive Mud Protocol?) J C Lawrence
- Its not a MUD...is it? J C Lawrence
- An Introduction Hess, Ian {Ian} *CTR*
- An Introduction Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- An Introduction Mik Clarke
- An Introduction Greg Miller
- An Introduction Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
- An Introduction Matthew Mihaly
- An Introduction Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- An Introduction Matthew Mihaly
- An Introduction Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- An Introduction Hess, Ian {Ian} *CTR*
- An Introduction Wes Connell
- An Introduction Greg Miller
- An Introduction Albert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Tony Wilkinson
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Marc Bowden
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Tony Wilkinson
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis Casey
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Wes Connell
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? J C Lawrence
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Chris Turner
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Asmodeus
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Mik Clarke
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? J C Lawrence
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster A I? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis S. Casey
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Zaid Sayeed
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Laurel Fan
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis Casey
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis S. Casey
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? JT Herring
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Kylotan
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- Skill Power vs Skill Rarity Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Skill Power vs Skill Rarity Mik Clarke
- Consensual/PvP/PK Ilya, Game Commandos
- Announcement Locke / Mad Merv
- Announcement J C Lawrence
- Announcement Greg Miller
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Spin
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Travis S. Casey
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Adam Wiggins
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ilya, Game Commandos
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Mik Clarke
- Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing Ilya, Game Commandos
- Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing J C Lawrence
- Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing Emil Eifrém
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Attracting players Dominic J. Eidson
- Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
- Attracting players John Hopson
- Attracting players David Bennett
- Attracting players Ilya, Game Commandos
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Attracting players The MUD Connector - Administrator
- Attracting players Dundee
- Attracting players Adam Wiggins
- Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Attracting players Adam Wiggins
- Attracting players Ilya, Game Commandos
- Attracting players Emil Eifrém
- Attracting players Mik Clarke
- Attracting players The MUD Connector - Administrator
- Attracting players Petri Virkkula
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
- Attracting players David Bennett
- Attracting players Greg Miller
- Attracting players Laurel Fan
- Attracting players Scatter
- Attracting players Andrew Wilson
- Attracting players Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Attracting players Greg Miller
- Attracting players Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Attracting players Greg Miller
- Attracting players Greg Miller
- Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
- attracting players Par Winzell
- attracting players David Bennett
- attracting players Mud Imp
- attracting players Marc Bowden
- attracting players adam@treyarch.com
- attracting players Kevin Scott London
- attracting players Ben Greear
- attracting players Wes Connell
- attracting players Marc Bowden
- attracting players Willowreed@aol.com
- attracting players Mordengaard
- attracting players adam@treyarch.com
- attracting players Jon A. Lambert
- attracting players David Bennett
- attracting players Marc Bowden
- Attracting players mrkelley@one.net
- Attracting players Louis
- Attracting players Matt Mihaly
- chess Matthew Mihaly
- chess Robin Cloutman
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK J C Lawrence
- an essay on PK Marian Griffith
- an essay on PK Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- an essay on PK Chris Turner
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK Chris Turner
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK Charles Hughes
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK Chris Turner
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
- an essay on PK Jon A. Lambert
- an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
- an essay on PK Ilya, Game Commandos
- an essay on PK Marian Griffith
- an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
- an essay on PK Rhonda Alexander
- an essay on PK Ilya, Game Commandos
- an essay on PK Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- an essay on PK Laurel Fan
- an essay on PK Miroslav Silovic
- an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
- an essay on PK Marian Griffith
On Thu 23 Sep, Rhonda Alexander wrote:
> From: Matthew Mihaly <diablo@best.com>
> >On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Marian Griffith wrote:
> >> I vowed to stay out of these perpetual discussion, but I could not
> >> let this slip by entirely without making a single observation:
> >> You are apparently assuming that your victims (the whiners) are
> >> playing the same game as you are. They obviously are not. A large
> >> part of the shock is coming from the fact that people think they
> >> are playing a particular type of game and then are suddenly forced
> >> into an entirely different type of game.
> >> Are such players whiners when they complain vocally? By your stan-
> >> dards yes, but by their own standards their game has been invaded
> >> by vandals, and they have every right to complain.
> >If they complain vocally, then yes. Everyone is living in the same virtual
> >world,
Ah, but are they? I obviously did not express myself clearly enough. The
point I was trying to make was that players do not -expect- to be living
in the same virtual world. I was not pointing at a right or wrong situa-
tion but at a shattered expectations one.
> Hmm. This will be the first time I've responded to the mailing list though
> I've been 'listening' for a long while. I am not a MUD player, to be honest,
> I'm a player though a MUX and MUSH player. My interest in this mailing list
> is as a MU* designer (and many of the RP issues are the same). As a
> coder/designer/admin type, the PK issue is one that bothered me for a long
> while as I sit in design phase for the game I'm working on. The only MUD
> that I would probably ever consider trying as a player would be a non-PK
> MUD, if such exists. I've enjoyed poking around with the server software
> though on my own machine.
> I agree with Marian in that many players have different expectations when
> they log on to a game. Many of us 'come from' traditional table-top role
> playing games where, depending upon the group, PK may be an extreme faux
> pas; where a player that engages in gratuitous PKing would be considered a
> 'problem player' and possibly banned from the game. Many gamers expect
> troupe-style play or a rough equivalent when they attempt the online
> 'equivalents' of their favorite role-playing game.
> The simple fact is that there are a number of different player personality
> 'profiles' and there are a number of different 'styles' of gaming. Sometimes
> those players can reach a compromise and sometimes the styles are so
> different that were it a table-top game the group would probably split to go
> their own ways (no one style is 'wrong' but they can conflict horribly and
> perhaps should not be forced to co-exist).
This is in fact the problem that is expressed by 'the Stampcollectors
Dilemma' in the faq. Can, and should, you cater for all different types
of play and all different interests in the same game?
> In a way the MU*ing environment
> creates an unnatural situation where player that would normally gravitate
> away from one another in a table-top game are thrust together. When I used
> to run tabletop games I and the other female players were more then content
> with role-play that revolved around moral dilemmas, personal conflicts,
> problem solving, mysteries and other sorts of 'social role-play'. We were
> fine and dandy without any combat scenes, but not so with my male players.
> If they didn't get a battle scene every one and a half sessions or so they
> got 'antsy'. In that case the style difference was still minor enough to
> reach a compromise. Both expected troupe-style play though. It was easy
> enough to balance the game to appeal to both.
> In a MU* situation it's more of a quandary though. The equivalent of a
> storyteller is less likely to be present and available. The decision of how
> to deal with different ‘styles’ of RP in design phase is something I92ve
> debating over for a couple of years as I’ve worked on the code. Do I dare
> even include an easy to use combat system? I don’t wish to ‘outlaw death’ or
> ‘consequences for IC actions’ but I don’t want to encourage certain types of
> RP on the site I’m designing (There are plenty enough sites for those folks
> with a competitive bent). Do I try to create alternatives, like the MOBS
> that exist on MUDs to try to placate some players need for aggression (the
> equivalent of placating my male tabletop players every 1-½ sessions with a
> combat scene)? Or do I just make the combat systems so unattractive that no
> one bothers? I heard of one MU* that actually makes a player send an app to
> the wizards to attempt a PK. Whether to try to ‘placate’, discourage, or
> forbid is not an easy decision. One would hope players would look to the
> enjoyment of other players as well themselves. I try to. In my experience
> though many players do not.
My experience is that there are two things that greatly influence what
players will do in a game: theme and example. E.g. Pern themed games
rarely have any fighting going on at all because it is not in the sto-
ries. Players who enjoy combat are unlikely to gravitate towards that
theme. As a result it remains almost entirely free of combat (and com-
petition to a large extent).
If in a player group PK is rare then new players are unlikely to start
with it, and those who do are frowned upon. The player group enforces
its mores through example, and players with other interests are likely
to drift away to other games.
In either case you will have to deal with the trouble makers.
Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...
Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey - an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK J C Lawrence
- an essay on PK Richard Bartle
- an essay on PK Jason Spangler
- an essay on PK Willowreed@aol.com
- an essay on PK Koster, Raph
- an essay on PK Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- an essay on PK Richard Bartle
- Might not make right... Spin
- META: MUD-Dev visibility J C Lawrence
- Seeking one or two creative C coders for MURP project. Darin De Stefano
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Quzah
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Jp Calderone
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Joel Kelso
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dynamic muds ryan
- Dynamic muds Asmodeus
- Dynamic muds Robin Cloutman
- Dynamic muds ryan
- Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
- Dynamic muds Colin Coghill
- Dynamic muds J C Lawrence
- Dynamic muds Emil Eifrém
- Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
- Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
- Dynamic muds David Bennett
- Dynamic muds Christopher Allen - GM Fangs
- Dynamic muds Spin
- Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
- Dynamic muds Spin
- Dynamic muds Chris Turner
- Dynamic muds Adam Wiggins
- Dynamic muds Mik Clarke
- Dynamic muds Arlie Stephens
- Dynamic muds Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Dynamic muds Greg Miller
- Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
- Dynamic muds Ben Greear
- Dynamic muds Greg Miller
- Dynamic muds Colin Coghill
- Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
- Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
- Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
- Dynamic muds Alex Oren
- Dynamic muds Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Dynamic muds Chris Gray
- Dynamic muds Ronan Farrell
- Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
- Dynamic muds Christopher Allen
- Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
- Dynamic muds Justin Lockshaw
- Dynamic muds Mik Clarke
- Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
- Dynamic muds Travis S. Casey
- Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
- thoughts on 'realism' Matthew Mihaly
- Tactical Interest Spin
- Tactical Interest Spin
- Tactical Interest Adam Wiggins
- what players want, what I want Ilya, Game Commandos
- what players want, what I want Matthew Mihaly
- what players want, what I want Ilya, Game Commandos
- what players want, what I want Justin Lockshaw
- what players want, what I want Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Creating a mudlib Solmyr of the Azure Star
- Mobiles AI and automation Crystalmir
- Mobiles AI and automation Matthew Mihaly
- Mobiles AI and automation Marc Bowden
- Mobiles AI and automation Mik Clarke
- This is just... STRANGE Dundee
- Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Ultima Online Steve Sparks
- Ultima Online Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Peer pressure and cooperation Miroslav Silovic
- Effiecient interaction (was deliver failed) Spin
- ADMIN: We're moving again J C Lawrence
- "Online migration and population mobility" Koster, Raph
- "Online migration and population mobility" Koster, Raph