September 1999
- Battle Systems Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
- Battle Systems Richard Woolcock
- Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
- Battle Systems Richard Woolcock
- Battle Systems Mik Clarke
- Battle Systems Greg Miller
- Battle Systems Ben Greear
- Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
- Battle Systems Greg Miller
- Battle Systems Christopher Allen
- Battle Systems Batis
- Battle Systems Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Battle Systems Richard Ross
- Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
- semi-OT: Alan Cox is a MUD hacker Adam Wiggins
- semi-OT: Alan Cox is a MUD hacker Ben Greear
- Graphical Mud Design JT Herring
- Graphical Mud Design Chris Gray
- Graphical Mud Design David
- ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
- ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Chris Gray
- ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
- ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
- IMP (Interactive Mud Protocol?) Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- IMP (Interactive Mud Protocol?) J C Lawrence
- Its not a MUD...is it? J C Lawrence
- An Introduction Hess, Ian {Ian} *CTR*
- An Introduction Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- An Introduction Mik Clarke
- An Introduction Greg Miller
- An Introduction Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
- An Introduction Matthew Mihaly
- An Introduction Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- An Introduction Matthew Mihaly
- An Introduction Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- An Introduction Hess, Ian {Ian} *CTR*
- An Introduction Wes Connell
- An Introduction Greg Miller
- An Introduction Albert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Tony Wilkinson
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Marc Bowden
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Tony Wilkinson
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis Casey
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Wes Connell
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? J C Lawrence
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Chris Turner
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Asmodeus
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Mik Clarke
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? J C Lawrence
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster A I? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis S. Casey
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Zaid Sayeed
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Laurel Fan
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis Casey
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis S. Casey
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? JT Herring
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Kylotan
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
- The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
- Skill Power vs Skill Rarity Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Skill Power vs Skill Rarity Mik Clarke
- Consensual/PvP/PK Ilya, Game Commandos
- Announcement Locke / Mad Merv
- Announcement J C Lawrence
- Announcement Greg Miller
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Spin
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Travis S. Casey
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Adam Wiggins
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ilya, Game Commandos
- Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Mik Clarke
- Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing Ilya, Game Commandos
- Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing J C Lawrence
- Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing Emil Eifrém
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Attracting players Dominic J. Eidson
- Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
- Attracting players John Hopson
- Attracting players David Bennett
- Attracting players Ilya, Game Commandos
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Attracting players The MUD Connector - Administrator
- Attracting players Dundee
- Attracting players Adam Wiggins
- Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Attracting players Adam Wiggins
- Attracting players Ilya, Game Commandos
- Attracting players Emil Eifrém
- Attracting players Mik Clarke
- Attracting players The MUD Connector - Administrator
- Attracting players Petri Virkkula
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
- Attracting players Koster, Raph
- Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
- Attracting players David Bennett
- Attracting players Greg Miller
- Attracting players Laurel Fan
- Attracting players Scatter
- Attracting players Andrew Wilson
- Attracting players Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Attracting players Greg Miller
- Attracting players Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Attracting players Greg Miller
- Attracting players Greg Miller
- Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
- attracting players Par Winzell
- attracting players David Bennett
- attracting players Mud Imp
- attracting players Marc Bowden
- attracting players adam@treyarch.com
- attracting players Kevin Scott London
- attracting players Ben Greear
- attracting players Wes Connell
- attracting players Marc Bowden
- attracting players Willowreed@aol.com
- attracting players Mordengaard
- attracting players adam@treyarch.com
- attracting players Jon A. Lambert
- attracting players David Bennett
- attracting players Marc Bowden
- Attracting players mrkelley@one.net
- Attracting players Louis
- Attracting players Matt Mihaly
- chess Matthew Mihaly
- chess Robin Cloutman
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK J C Lawrence
- an essay on PK Marian Griffith
- an essay on PK Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- an essay on PK Chris Turner
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK Chris Turner
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK Charles Hughes
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK Chris Turner
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
- an essay on PK Jon A. Lambert
- an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
- an essay on PK Ilya, Game Commandos
- an essay on PK Marian Griffith
- an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
- an essay on PK Rhonda Alexander
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Mihaly <diablo@best.com>
To: Mud Dev Mailing list <mud-dev@kanga.nu>
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] an essay on PK
>On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Marian Griffith wrote:
>
>> In <URL:/archives/meow?group+local.muddev> on Mon 20 Sep, Matthew Mihaly wrote:
>>
>> > Yes, I agree with this for the most part, though purely out of
>> > practicality (why set yourself up to deal with the whiners?)
>>
>> I vowed to stay out of these perpetual discussion, but I could not let
this
>> slip by entirely without making a single observation:
>>
>> You are apparently assuming that your victims (the whiners) are playing
the
>> same game as you are. They obviously are not. A large part of the shock
is
>> coming from the fact that people think they are playing a particular
type
>> of game and then are suddenly forced into an entirely different type of
ga-
>> me. Paraphrasing the person who wrote the original article: Players
think
>> they are safe and that the warning PK allowed does not apply to them,
until
>> I prove them otherwise.
>> Are such players whiners when they complain vocally? By your standards
yes,
>> but by their own standards their game has been invaded by vandals, and
they
>> have every right to complain. I am not getting into the discussion who
is
>> right or wrong on this subject though.
>
>If they complain vocally, then yes. Everyone is living in the same virtual
>world, just like everyone is living in the same world in real life. If a
>meteor suddenly drops on your head, and you weren't expecting it, what are
>you going to do, start whining about it? No, you're going to say to
>yourself, "Either I can get on with it, knowing now that this risk exists,
>or I can kill myself, thus ending the game of life." That's overly
>simplifed, I realize, but I feel that's the essence of things.
>--matt
>
Hmm. This will be the first time I've responded to the mailing list though
I've been 'listening' for a long while. I am not a MUD player, to be honest,
I'm a player though a MUX and MUSH player. My interest in this mailing list
is as a MU* designer (and many of the RP issues are the same). As a
coder/designer/admin type, the PK issue is one that bothered me for a long
while as I sit in design phase for the game I'm working on. The only MUD
that I would probably ever consider trying as a player would be a non-PK
MUD, if such exists. I've enjoyed poking around with the server software
though on my own machine.
I agree with Marian in that many players have different expectations when
they log on to a game. Many of us 'come from' traditional table-top role
playing games where, depending upon the group, PK may be an extreme faux
pas; where a player that engages in gratuitous PKing would be considered a
'problem player' and possibly banned from the game. Many gamers expect
troupe-style play or a rough equivalent when they attempt the online
'equivalents' of their favorite role-playing game.
The simple fact is that there are a number of different player personality
'profiles' and there are a number of different 'styles' of gaming. Sometimes
those players can reach a compromise and sometimes the styles are so
different that were it a table-top game the group would probably split to go
their own ways (no one style is 'wrong' but they can conflict horribly and
perhaps should not be forced to co-exist). In a way the MU*ing environment
creates an unnatural situation where player that would normally gravitate
away from one another in a table-top game are thrust together. When I used
to run tabletop games I and the other female players were more then content
with role-play that revolved around moral dilemmas, personal conflicts,
problem solving, mysteries and other sorts of 'social role-play'. We were
fine and dandy without any combat scenes, but not so with my male players.
If they didn't get a battle scene every one and a half sessions or so they
got 'antsy'. In that case the style difference was still minor enough to
reach a compromise. Both expected troupe-style play though. It was easy
enough to balance the game to appeal to both.
In a MU* situation it's more of a quandary though. The equivalent of a
storyteller is less likely to be present and available. The decision of how
to deal with different ‘styles’ of RP in design phase is something I’ve
debating over for a couple of years as I’ve worked on the code. Do I dare
even include an easy to use combat system? I don’t wish to ‘outlaw death’ or
‘consequences for IC actions’ but I don’t want to encourage certain types of
RP on the site I’m designing (There are plenty enough sites for those folks
with a competitive bent). Do I try to create alternatives, like the MOBS
that exist on MUDs to try to placate some players need for aggression (the
equivalent of placating my male tabletop players every 1-½ sessions with a
combat scene)? Or do I just make the combat systems so unattractive that no
one bothers? I heard of one MU* that actually makes a player send an app to
the wizards to attempt a PK. Whether to try to ‘placate’, discourage, or
forbid is not an easy decision. One would hope players would look to the
enjoyment of other players as well themselves. I try to. In my experience
though many players do not.
And to talk about whiners… my favorite MUSH that I play on finally got
around to instituting the equivalent of PK and Non-PK flags. You shoulda
heard the PKers WHINE. 8) - an essay on PK Ilya, Game Commandos
- an essay on PK Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- an essay on PK Laurel Fan
- an essay on PK Miroslav Silovic
- an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
- an essay on PK Marian Griffith
- an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
- an essay on PK Rhonda Alexander
- an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
- an essay on PK J C Lawrence
- an essay on PK Richard Bartle
- an essay on PK Jason Spangler
- an essay on PK Willowreed@aol.com
- an essay on PK Koster, Raph
- an essay on PK Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- an essay on PK Richard Bartle
- Might not make right... Spin
- META: MUD-Dev visibility J C Lawrence
- Seeking one or two creative C coders for MURP project. Darin De Stefano
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Quzah
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Jp Calderone
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Joel Kelso
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dynamic muds ryan
- Dynamic muds Asmodeus
- Dynamic muds Robin Cloutman
- Dynamic muds ryan
- Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
- Dynamic muds Colin Coghill
- Dynamic muds J C Lawrence
- Dynamic muds Emil Eifrém
- Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
- Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
- Dynamic muds David Bennett
- Dynamic muds Christopher Allen - GM Fangs
- Dynamic muds Spin
- Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
- Dynamic muds Spin
- Dynamic muds Chris Turner
- Dynamic muds Adam Wiggins
- Dynamic muds Mik Clarke
- Dynamic muds Arlie Stephens
- Dynamic muds Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Dynamic muds Greg Miller
- Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
- Dynamic muds Ben Greear
- Dynamic muds Greg Miller
- Dynamic muds Colin Coghill
- Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
- Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
- Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
- Dynamic muds Alex Oren
- Dynamic muds Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Dynamic muds Chris Gray
- Dynamic muds Ronan Farrell
- Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
- Dynamic muds Christopher Allen
- Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
- Dynamic muds Justin Lockshaw
- Dynamic muds Mik Clarke
- Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
- Dynamic muds Travis S. Casey
- Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
- thoughts on 'realism' Matthew Mihaly
- Tactical Interest Spin
- Tactical Interest Spin
- Tactical Interest Adam Wiggins
- what players want, what I want Ilya, Game Commandos
- what players want, what I want Matthew Mihaly
- what players want, what I want Ilya, Game Commandos
- what players want, what I want Justin Lockshaw
- what players want, what I want Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Creating a mudlib Solmyr of the Azure Star
- Mobiles AI and automation Crystalmir
- Mobiles AI and automation Matthew Mihaly
- Mobiles AI and automation Marc Bowden
- Mobiles AI and automation Mik Clarke
- This is just... STRANGE Dundee
- Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Ultima Online Steve Sparks
- Ultima Online Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Peer pressure and cooperation Miroslav Silovic
- Effiecient interaction (was deliver failed) Spin
- ADMIN: We're moving again J C Lawrence
- "Online migration and population mobility" Koster, Raph
- "Online migration and population mobility" Koster, Raph