September 1999

• Battle Systems Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
• • Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
  • • Battle Systems Richard Woolcock
    • • Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
      • • Battle Systems Richard Woolcock
  • Battle Systems Mik Clarke
  • • Battle Systems Greg Miller
  • Battle Systems Ben Greear
  • • Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
    • • Battle Systems Greg Miller
  • Battle Systems Christopher Allen
  • Battle Systems Batis
  • Battle Systems Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • Battle Systems Richard Ross
  • • Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
• semi-OT: Alan Cox is a MUD hacker Adam Wiggins
• • semi-OT: Alan Cox is a MUD hacker Ben Greear
• Graphical Mud Design JT Herring
• • Graphical Mud Design Chris Gray
  • Graphical Mud Design David
• ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
• • ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Chris Gray
  • • ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
  • ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
• IMP (Interactive Mud Protocol?) Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
• • IMP (Interactive Mud Protocol?) J C Lawrence
• Its not a MUD...is it? J C Lawrence
• An Introduction Hess, Ian {Ian} *CTR*
• • An Introduction Caliban Tiresias Darklock
  • • An Introduction Mik Clarke
    • An Introduction Greg Miller
    • • An Introduction Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
      • • An Introduction Matthew Mihaly
      • An Introduction Jeremy Music "Sterling"
      • • An Introduction Matthew Mihaly
        • • An Introduction Jeremy Music "Sterling"
        • An Introduction Hess, Ian {Ian} *CTR*
        • • An Introduction Wes Connell
        • An Introduction Greg Miller
  • An Introduction Albert
• The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Tony Wilkinson
• • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jeremy Music "Sterling"
  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Marc Bowden
  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
      • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Tony Wilkinson
      • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
        • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
          • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
            • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis Casey
            • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Wes Connell
              • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
              • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
              • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
                    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                      • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                        On 04:21 PM 9/10/1999 -0700, I personally witnessed Adam Wiggins jumping up
                        to say:
                        >
                        >I use PvP to indicate any aggressive/harmful action that one player may
                        >commit against another; this includes stealing from them, attack them
                        >(even without intent to kill), blinding them, silencing them, paralyzing
                        >them, and so forth. Take Arctic: actual PK is (somewhat) rare, but
                        >PvP is very common.
                        
                        Alternate perspective. This is not intended to be a challenge or any sort
                        of authoritative ultimatum.
                        
                        I've always considered "PvP" to mean players competing with other players.
                        This would be not only direct PK, but also "race" situations like acquiring
                        unique items before others do, "vanity" situations like trying to break the
                        record at the in-game gambling casino, or "territorial" situations like
                        claiming choice areas on the MUD. You could also include theft,
                        trap-laying, destruction of property, and rumormongering. "PvP" has never,
                        ever, ever meant the same as "PK" to me.
                        
                        "PvP" does, however, hold a certain implication when I see it mentioned. It
                        indicates, to my mind, that little if any non-PvP activity is provided.
                        What little may be provided is probably rather inferior.
                        
                        There are, for example, no puzzle areas in Quake deathmatch levels --
                        because they aren't necessary, and they get in the way. This is a very
                        PK-centered environment, and there is virtually no chance of ever being
                        able to engage in my particular favorite Quake activity: wandering around
                        marveling at the gorgeous level design. A huge sprawling level with only
                        three or four players in it would suit these needs better, because I prefer
                        not to race in with guns blazing, but to slowly stalk and eventually
                        assassinate targets. Single-player Unreal was a better game than Quake for
                        this; you rarely faced more than one or two opponents, and virtually always
                        in a position where you could attack from ambush with reasonable safety.
                        Many blazing-guns style players said this made the game total pants, but
                        I'm sure a lot of people like me were saying that Quake was a pain in the ass.
                        
                        Dammit, I miss Quake! The original, not the sequel. I should reinstall it. ;)
                        
                        >This is a matter of stated intent.
                        [...]
                        >As long as people are clearly aware of the policy, I don't see a problem.
                        [...]
                        >And why does PK == being mean to people? I get the feeling that
                        >we are talking about something altogether different when you make statements
                        >like this.
                        
                        I think people attach their own beliefs about PK and PvP play to what
                        exactly they say it is. For example, PvP and PK on my current project are
                        more or less part of the game -- you're SUPPOSED to compete with the other
                        players, and you're SUPPOSED to attack other players on occasion. If you
                        don't, that's fine, but if you DO then there are IN-GAME consequences
                        rather than some policy that requires the admins to step in and do
                        anything. So when people talk about PvP and PK styles, I come at that from
                        the perspective of these things being *undesirable* (you shouldn't be
                        running around killing people and messing with their game experience for no
                        reason) but not *forbidden*. Many other people are coming at this from a
                        standpoint much like what I prefer in an RP-centered MUD, which is
                        absolutely NO such activity ever under any circumstances end of story. Some
                        other people are coming at this from a standpoint of PK and PvP being a lot
                        more fun than mob slaughtering, and therefore see it as a desirable thing
                        in any game they play.
                        
                        The real key is that ALL OF THESE OPINIONS ARE VALID. It's all a matter of
                        the game. Compare AD&D to Warhammer Fantasy Battle; in AD&D, the players
                        cooperate to solve problems. In WFB, the players beat the living crap out
                        of each other. That's the game. Yes, you can cooperate in WFB, and yes, you
                        can beat the living crap out of each other in AD&D -- and sometimes, that's
                        a good thing. But it has to fit what the other players are looking for.
                        Most MUDs cater to one or the other type of player, but do not effectively
                        cater to BOTH. That's OKAY. They don't have to be all things to all people.
                        It would be nice if they could, but they don't have to.
                        
                        One of the questions this raises in my mind is what people expect their
                        games to be. If you expect your game to be an occasional pastime, one of
                        many that your players indulge in, then you'll have a different attitude
                        toward your game's "job" than you might if you thought your game would be
                        the one and only game people played. Do people here think of their own MUDs
                        as being one in a sea of many, or as the next be-all and end-all of gaming
                        that the rest of the gaming world imitates or duplicates until no other
                        games survive?
                        
                        Semi-topical: what's the list's reaction to the acquisition of WOTC by
                        Hasbro? Many hobby shop owners were concerned that WOTC was destroying
                        smaller game companies. Is that relaxed by Hasbro's defocused market
                        position (they make pretty much everything), or intensified by Hasbro's new
                        place in the lead of yet another market segment?
                        
                        -----
                        | Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban@darklock.com
                        | Darklock Communications http://www.darklock.com/
                        | U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D
                        | 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -ÊBAL::3146=-
                      • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                        • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
                        • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                        • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
                        • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? J C Lawrence
                    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Chris Turner
                    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Asmodeus
                  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                    • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Mik Clarke
                      • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                        • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Sellers, Michael
                          • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                            • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? J C Lawrence
                              • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                                • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                                • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
              • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
              • • The Relationship between pkers and monster A I? Sellers, Michael
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jeremy Music "Sterling"
                  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis S. Casey
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
            • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
            • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Zaid Sayeed
              • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
              • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                      • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                        • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
                            • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                          • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Laurel Fan
                            • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                              • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                            • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                          • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis Casey
                          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                            • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis S. Casey
                              • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                      • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
                      • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
                    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
                      • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
          • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? JT Herring
          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
        • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Kylotan
    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? David Holz
  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
• Skill Power vs Skill Rarity Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
• • Skill Power vs Skill Rarity Mik Clarke
• Consensual/PvP/PK Ilya, Game Commandos
• Announcement Locke / Mad Merv
• • Announcement J C Lawrence
  • Announcement Greg Miller
• Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Spin
• • Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Travis S. Casey
  • Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Adam Wiggins
  • • Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ilya, Game Commandos
    • Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Mik Clarke
• Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing Ilya, Game Commandos
• • Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing J C Lawrence
  • • Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing Emil Eifrém
• Attracting players Koster, Raph
• • Attracting players Dominic J. Eidson
  • Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
  • Attracting players John Hopson
  • • Attracting players David Bennett
    • • Attracting players Ilya, Game Commandos
    • Attracting players Koster, Raph
    • Attracting players The MUD Connector - Administrator
  • Attracting players Dundee
  • Attracting players Adam Wiggins
  • • Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
    • Attracting players Koster, Raph
    • • Attracting players Adam Wiggins
      • • Attracting players Ilya, Game Commandos
        • Attracting players Emil Eifrém
  • Attracting players Mik Clarke
  • Attracting players The MUD Connector - Administrator
  • Attracting players Petri Virkkula
  • • Attracting players Koster, Raph
    • Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
  • Attracting players Koster, Raph
  • • Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
    • • Attracting players David Bennett
      • • Attracting players Greg Miller
      • Attracting players Laurel Fan
      • • Attracting players Scatter
      • Attracting players Andrew Wilson
      • Attracting players Caliban Tiresias Darklock
      • • Attracting players Greg Miller
        • • Attracting players Caliban Tiresias Darklock
          • • Attracting players Greg Miller
      • Attracting players Greg Miller
  • Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
  • attracting players Par Winzell
  • • attracting players David Bennett
    • • attracting players Mud Imp
      • • attracting players Marc Bowden
        • attracting players adam@treyarch.com
        • • attracting players Kevin Scott London
          • attracting players Ben Greear
          • • attracting players Wes Connell
          • attracting players Marc Bowden
          • • attracting players Willowreed@aol.com
          • attracting players Mordengaard
          • • attracting players adam@treyarch.com
            • • attracting players Jon A. Lambert
            • attracting players David Bennett
      • attracting players Marc Bowden
  • Attracting players mrkelley@one.net
  • • Attracting players Louis
  • Attracting players Matt Mihaly
• chess Matthew Mihaly
• • chess Robin Cloutman
• an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
• • an essay on PK J C Lawrence
  • an essay on PK Marian Griffith
  • • an essay on PK Jeremy Music "Sterling"
    • • an essay on PK Chris Turner
      • • an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
        • • an essay on PK Chris Turner
          • • an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
            • an essay on PK Charles Hughes
            • • an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
              • • an essay on PK Chris Turner
                • • an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
  • an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
  • • an essay on PK Jon A. Lambert
    • • an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
      • • an essay on PK Ilya, Game Commandos
        • an essay on PK Marian Griffith
        • • an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
          • • an essay on PK Rhonda Alexander
            • • an essay on PK Ilya, Game Commandos
              • • an essay on PK Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                • • an essay on PK Laurel Fan
                  • an essay on PK Miroslav Silovic
              • an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
              • an essay on PK Marian Griffith
              • • an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
          • an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
          • an essay on PK J C Lawrence
  • an essay on PK Richard Bartle
  • • an essay on PK Jason Spangler
    • • an essay on PK Willowreed@aol.com
      • • an essay on PK Koster, Raph
    • an essay on PK Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • an essay on PK Richard Bartle
• Might not make right... Spin
• META: MUD-Dev visibility J C Lawrence
• Seeking one or two creative C coders for MURP project. Darin De Stefano
• Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• • Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Quzah
  • • Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Jp Calderone
    • • Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Joel Kelso
    • Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• Dynamic muds ryan
• • Dynamic muds Asmodeus
  • Dynamic muds Robin Cloutman
  • • Dynamic muds ryan
    • • Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
      • Dynamic muds Colin Coghill
      • • Dynamic muds J C Lawrence
        • • Dynamic muds Emil Eifrém
          • • Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
            • • Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
              • • Dynamic muds David Bennett
                • Dynamic muds Christopher Allen - GM Fangs
                • Dynamic muds Spin
                • • Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
                  • • Dynamic muds Spin
                • Dynamic muds Chris Turner
                • • Dynamic muds Adam Wiggins
      • Dynamic muds Mik Clarke
      • Dynamic muds Arlie Stephens
  • Dynamic muds Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
  • Dynamic muds Greg Miller
  • Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
  • • Dynamic muds Ben Greear
    • • Dynamic muds Greg Miller
      • • Dynamic muds Colin Coghill
      • Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
      • • Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
        • • Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
          • • Dynamic muds Alex Oren
      • Dynamic muds Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
    • Dynamic muds Chris Gray
  • Dynamic muds Ronan Farrell
  • Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
  • Dynamic muds Christopher Allen
  • Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
  • Dynamic muds Justin Lockshaw
  • • Dynamic muds Mik Clarke
    • • Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
      • • Dynamic muds Travis S. Casey
        • • Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
• thoughts on 'realism' Matthew Mihaly
• Tactical Interest Spin
• Tactical Interest Spin
• • Tactical Interest Adam Wiggins
• what players want, what I want Ilya, Game Commandos
• • what players want, what I want Matthew Mihaly
  • • what players want, what I want Ilya, Game Commandos
  • what players want, what I want Justin Lockshaw
  • • what players want, what I want Caliban Tiresias Darklock
• Creating a mudlib Solmyr of the Azure Star
• Mobiles AI and automation Crystalmir
• • Mobiles AI and automation Matthew Mihaly
  • • Mobiles AI and automation Marc Bowden
  • Mobiles AI and automation Mik Clarke
• This is just... STRANGE Dundee
• Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
• Ultima Online Steve Sparks
• • Ultima Online Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• Peer pressure and cooperation Miroslav Silovic
• Effiecient interaction (was deliver failed) Spin
• ADMIN: We're moving again J C Lawrence
• "Online migration and population mobility" Koster, Raph
• • "Online migration and population mobility" Koster, Raph