September 1999

• Battle Systems Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
• • Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
  • • Battle Systems Richard Woolcock
    • • Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
      • • Battle Systems Richard Woolcock
  • Battle Systems Mik Clarke
  • • Battle Systems Greg Miller
  • Battle Systems Ben Greear
  • • Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
    • • Battle Systems Greg Miller
  • Battle Systems Christopher Allen
  • Battle Systems Batis
  • Battle Systems Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • Battle Systems Richard Ross
  • • Battle Systems Matthew Mihaly
• semi-OT: Alan Cox is a MUD hacker Adam Wiggins
• • semi-OT: Alan Cox is a MUD hacker Ben Greear
• Graphical Mud Design JT Herring
• • Graphical Mud Design Chris Gray
  • Graphical Mud Design David
• ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
• • ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Chris Gray
  • • ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
  • ScryMUD is offically open to the public. Ben Greear
• IMP (Interactive Mud Protocol?) Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
• • IMP (Interactive Mud Protocol?) J C Lawrence
• Its not a MUD...is it? J C Lawrence
• An Introduction Hess, Ian {Ian} *CTR*
• • An Introduction Caliban Tiresias Darklock
  • • An Introduction Mik Clarke
    • An Introduction Greg Miller
    • • An Introduction Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
      • • An Introduction Matthew Mihaly
      • An Introduction Jeremy Music "Sterling"
      • • An Introduction Matthew Mihaly
        • • An Introduction Jeremy Music "Sterling"
        • An Introduction Hess, Ian {Ian} *CTR*
        • • An Introduction Wes Connell
        • An Introduction Greg Miller
  • An Introduction Albert
• The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Tony Wilkinson
• • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jeremy Music "Sterling"
  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Marc Bowden
  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
      • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Tony Wilkinson
      • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
        • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
          • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
            • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis Casey
            • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Wes Connell
              • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
              • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
              • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                      On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Dundee wrote:
                      
                      > On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:56:16 -0700 (PDT), Matthew Mihaly <diablo@best.com>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > Generally I see people use "PvP" to mean consensual combat, and "PK" to
                      > mean non-consensual combat. But by all means, if you have a problem with
                      > those terms, I'll write out the long version each time.
                      
                      The reason I object to PvP meaning combat, is that it implies that the
                      only Player vs. Player interaction possible is combat, when combat is only
                      one PvP option in a good mud.
                      
                      > Well, there is a distinction whether you like it or not. Consensual combat
                      > is great fun for both parties. Non-consensual combat is not.
                      
                      Alright, fair enough, there is a distintion. I just don't like to make a
                      distinction, as the idea of consent is very overrated imho.
                      
                      >
                      > > PvP is player vs. player. It does not in any way imply combat, though it very well may
                      > > include combat) simply does not allow players to experience the same range
                      > > of emotions that real PK does.
                      >
                      > Likewise, going to a paintball game and shooting other paintball players
                      > doesn't allow for the same range of emotions as, say, going to the mall and
                      > shooting people with my paintball gun. You should see how emotional they
                      > get. The mall should thank me for making their shopping experience
                      > non-boring.
                      
                      If the goal of the mall was to provide an exciting experience, then yes,
                      they should thank you for it. However, that's not the goal of a mall. That
                      is, on the other hand, my goal in running a mud. Having said that, Achaea
                      is not permadeath, and player-killing is obviously a trickier issue when
                      you lose your character permanently due to being killed.
                      
                      
                      > > of course this heightens emotions, but nothing gets emotions going as well
                      > > as being PK'd or generally messed with unintentionally.
                      >
                      > Oh it's intentional, but I think you mean "without the victims consent".
                      > Undoubtedly, that'll spark some emotion. Not any good emotions, but what
                      > the heck, eh?
                      
                      Well, I don't know about you, but in my experience, a constant tidal wave
                      of "feel good" emotions quickly becomes valueless. I'm not insulting your
                      goals in your game, but I for one have no interest in riskless
                      environments. They're boring to me. In a way, I view all Player killing as
                      consensual, as it's a part of the game. If it wasn't, then there would be
                      no need to worry about it, as it wouldn't be an option. If you don't want
                      non-conseual PKilling, then just require both players to sign a virtual
                      document (or just type a command) agreeing to be killed by player X.
                      
                      
                      > And in any case, it still says nothing about the sorts of people who have
                      > fun at other people expense. If you think it's great fun to be mean to
                      > people, then there *is* something wrong with you.
                      
                      Existence and the use of _any_ resource inherently entails doing
                      something at the expense of someone else. Nearly everything you do in life
                      has some negative effect on someone else. You drive to work, you're
                      screwing everyone else out of clean air. You buy a book, you're screwing
                      us out of a tree that we might enjoy. You apply for a job, you're screwing
                      over other applicants by reducing their chances of getting it. Grow up and
                      deal with it. In any case, I still would like to know why being killed by
                      another player is worse than being killed by a wandering mob. It just
                      seems like crybaby behavior to me.
                      
                      >
                      > They aren't the sorts of people that I want to hang with, nor subject my
                      > other users to. If I just wanted to jack with my players then I'd wander
                      > around and kill them willy nilly myself, zero-out their hard-earned skills,
                      > take their kewl lewt, etc. That'd really make their blood boil.
                      
                      Yes, but the key is that you have to allow for extreme emotions on both
                      ends. A player really has no hope of getting back at a God. it's hope that
                      keeps them going, and gives them a goal (getting revenge on the person
                      that nailed them).
                      
                      >
                      > Some sort of war could be fun: structured PvP combat. But random mugging
                      > is just worthless. It's impossible to have any amount of it without the
                      > entire game revolving around it. And if you *want* your entire game to
                      > revolve around it, then that's fine too... but then there's nothing
                      > non-consensual about the combat there then, since everyone knew that's what
                      > the whole MUD was all about when they logged in.
                      
                      Better be careful tossing around words like impossible, I'd say. It most
                      certainly is not impossible. We allow random mugging, and the game has
                      certainly not devolved into being focused on that.
                      
                      >
                      > People get disgusted with PKers when they login to a MUD that *claims* it
                      > isn't all about PKing, that there's more to it than that, and then it turns
                      > out that, no, it's all about PKing after all. Also invariably, if
                      > unrestricted PKing is allowed, then it's all about PKing.
                      
                      Sure, I'd get annoyed about that too. Luckily, permitting some degree of
                      random mugging doesn't entail a game that is all about unrestricted PK.
                      What this discussion has totally left out is the role of human management.
                      I don't like coding in restrictions, because they suck. If someone small
                      starts insulting you, I see no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to kill
                      that person. Having human admins deal with complaints is the best way that
                      I have found to have a rich Pk system that doesn't have lots of coded-in
                      restrictions, which just break up the consistency of things. I don't mind
                      some random mugging from evil players, because it's in their role.
                      Likewise, I have no problem with wandering nasty mobiles who attack
                      without provocation.
                      
                      To me, the golden mean is the goal. I'm not interested in a game that
                      protects players from all risks, and I'm not interested in a game that
                      just degenerates into constant random muggings. Both are boring to me.
                      --matt
                    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
                    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                      • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                      • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                        • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
                        • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                        • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
                        • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? J C Lawrence
                    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Chris Turner
                    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Asmodeus
                  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                    • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Mik Clarke
                      • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                        • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Sellers, Michael
                          • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                            • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? J C Lawrence
                              • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                                • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                                • • The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Dundee
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
              • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
              • • The Relationship between pkers and monster A I? Sellers, Michael
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jeremy Music "Sterling"
                  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Jon A. Lambert
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis S. Casey
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
            • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
            • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Zaid Sayeed
              • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
              • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                      • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                        • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
                            • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                          • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Laurel Fan
                            • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                              • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                            • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                          • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis Casey
                          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                            • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Travis S. Casey
                              • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
                      • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
                      • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
                  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Sellers, Michael
                    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Solmyr of the Azure Star
                      • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
                • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
          • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? JT Herring
          • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
        • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Kylotan
    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
    • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? David Holz
  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Greg Miller
  • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Mik Clarke
  • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Matthew Mihaly
    • • The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? Adam Wiggins
• Skill Power vs Skill Rarity Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
• • Skill Power vs Skill Rarity Mik Clarke
• Consensual/PvP/PK Ilya, Game Commandos
• Announcement Locke / Mad Merv
• • Announcement J C Lawrence
  • Announcement Greg Miller
• Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Spin
• • Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Travis S. Casey
  • Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
  • Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Adam Wiggins
  • • Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ilya, Game Commandos
    • Tactical Interest Was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Mik Clarke
• Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing Ilya, Game Commandos
• • Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing J C Lawrence
  • • Attracting players // TMC // 'admin' type reviewing Emil Eifrém
• Attracting players Koster, Raph
• • Attracting players Dominic J. Eidson
  • Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
  • Attracting players John Hopson
  • • Attracting players David Bennett
    • • Attracting players Ilya, Game Commandos
    • Attracting players Koster, Raph
    • Attracting players The MUD Connector - Administrator
  • Attracting players Dundee
  • Attracting players Adam Wiggins
  • • Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
    • Attracting players Koster, Raph
    • • Attracting players Adam Wiggins
      • • Attracting players Ilya, Game Commandos
        • Attracting players Emil Eifrém
  • Attracting players Mik Clarke
  • Attracting players The MUD Connector - Administrator
  • Attracting players Petri Virkkula
  • • Attracting players Koster, Raph
    • Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
  • Attracting players Koster, Raph
  • • Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
    • • Attracting players David Bennett
      • • Attracting players Greg Miller
      • Attracting players Laurel Fan
      • • Attracting players Scatter
      • Attracting players Andrew Wilson
      • Attracting players Caliban Tiresias Darklock
      • • Attracting players Greg Miller
        • • Attracting players Caliban Tiresias Darklock
          • • Attracting players Greg Miller
      • Attracting players Greg Miller
  • Attracting players Matthew Mihaly
  • attracting players Par Winzell
  • • attracting players David Bennett
    • • attracting players Mud Imp
      • • attracting players Marc Bowden
        • attracting players adam@treyarch.com
        • • attracting players Kevin Scott London
          • attracting players Ben Greear
          • • attracting players Wes Connell
          • attracting players Marc Bowden
          • • attracting players Willowreed@aol.com
          • attracting players Mordengaard
          • • attracting players adam@treyarch.com
            • • attracting players Jon A. Lambert
            • attracting players David Bennett
      • attracting players Marc Bowden
  • Attracting players mrkelley@one.net
  • • Attracting players Louis
  • Attracting players Matt Mihaly
• chess Matthew Mihaly
• • chess Robin Cloutman
• an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
• • an essay on PK J C Lawrence
  • an essay on PK Marian Griffith
  • • an essay on PK Jeremy Music "Sterling"
    • • an essay on PK Chris Turner
      • • an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
        • • an essay on PK Chris Turner
          • • an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
            • an essay on PK Charles Hughes
            • • an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
              • • an essay on PK Chris Turner
                • • an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
  • an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
  • • an essay on PK Jon A. Lambert
    • • an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
      • • an essay on PK Ilya, Game Commandos
        • an essay on PK Marian Griffith
        • • an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
          • • an essay on PK Rhonda Alexander
            • • an essay on PK Ilya, Game Commandos
              • • an essay on PK Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                • • an essay on PK Laurel Fan
                  • an essay on PK Miroslav Silovic
              • an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
              • an essay on PK Marian Griffith
              • • an essay on PK Matthew Mihaly
          • an essay on PK Adam Wiggins
          • an essay on PK J C Lawrence
  • an essay on PK Richard Bartle
  • • an essay on PK Jason Spangler
    • • an essay on PK Willowreed@aol.com
      • • an essay on PK Koster, Raph
    • an essay on PK Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • an essay on PK Richard Bartle
• Might not make right... Spin
• META: MUD-Dev visibility J C Lawrence
• Seeking one or two creative C coders for MURP project. Darin De Stefano
• Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• • Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Quzah
  • • Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Jp Calderone
    • • Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Joel Kelso
    • Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • Algorithms for an Infinite Universe Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• Dynamic muds ryan
• • Dynamic muds Asmodeus
  • Dynamic muds Robin Cloutman
  • • Dynamic muds ryan
    • • Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
      • Dynamic muds Colin Coghill
      • • Dynamic muds J C Lawrence
        • • Dynamic muds Emil Eifrém
          • • Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
            • • Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
              • • Dynamic muds David Bennett
                • Dynamic muds Christopher Allen - GM Fangs
                • Dynamic muds Spin
                • • Dynamic muds Ilya, Game Commandos
                  • • Dynamic muds Spin
                • Dynamic muds Chris Turner
                • • Dynamic muds Adam Wiggins
      • Dynamic muds Mik Clarke
      • Dynamic muds Arlie Stephens
  • Dynamic muds Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
  • Dynamic muds Greg Miller
  • Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
  • • Dynamic muds Ben Greear
    • • Dynamic muds Greg Miller
      • • Dynamic muds Colin Coghill
      • Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
      • • Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
        • • Dynamic muds Katrina McClelan
          • • Dynamic muds Alex Oren
      • Dynamic muds Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
    • Dynamic muds Chris Gray
  • Dynamic muds Ronan Farrell
  • Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
  • Dynamic muds Christopher Allen
  • Dynamic muds Petri Virkkula
  • Dynamic muds Justin Lockshaw
  • • Dynamic muds Mik Clarke
    • • Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
      • • Dynamic muds Travis S. Casey
        • • Dynamic muds Marian Griffith
• thoughts on 'realism' Matthew Mihaly
• Tactical Interest Spin
• Tactical Interest Spin
• • Tactical Interest Adam Wiggins
• what players want, what I want Ilya, Game Commandos
• • what players want, what I want Matthew Mihaly
  • • what players want, what I want Ilya, Game Commandos
  • what players want, what I want Justin Lockshaw
  • • what players want, what I want Caliban Tiresias Darklock
• Creating a mudlib Solmyr of the Azure Star
• Mobiles AI and automation Crystalmir
• • Mobiles AI and automation Matthew Mihaly
  • • Mobiles AI and automation Marc Bowden
  • Mobiles AI and automation Mik Clarke
• This is just... STRANGE Dundee
• Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
• Ultima Online Steve Sparks
• • Ultima Online Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• Peer pressure and cooperation Miroslav Silovic
• Effiecient interaction (was deliver failed) Spin
• ADMIN: We're moving again J C Lawrence
• "Online migration and population mobility" Koster, Raph
• • "Online migration and population mobility" Koster, Raph