June 1999
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Mark Gritter
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Travis S. Casey
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Travis Casey
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Travis S. Casey
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Jp Calderone
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Travis Casey
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Koster, Raph
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Koster, Raph
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Ben Greear
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Jon A. Lambert
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Munt
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Darren Henderson
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Munt
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- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Miroslav Silovic
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- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Darren Henderson
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) David Bennett
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Darren Henderson
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Ross Nicoll
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Koster, Raph
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Ross Nicoll
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Jon A. Lambert
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Jon A. Lambert
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Jon A. Lambert
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Koster, Raph
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Ben Greear
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Chris Gray
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- IndustrialMUD J C Lawrence
- IndustrialMUD Greg Miller
- Combat (very long) Matthew Mihaly
- Combat (very long) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Combat (very long) Matthew Mihaly
- Combat (very long) Marian Griffith
- What about goal oriented interfaces? (was Text Parsing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- What about goal oriented interfaces? (was Text Parsing) Chris Gray
- What about goal oriented interfaces? (was Text Parsing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- What about goal oriented interfaces? (was Text Parsing) Matthew Mihaly
- What about goal oriented interfaces? (was Text Parsing) Chris Gray
- What about goal oriented interfaces? (was Text Parsing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- What about goal oriented interfaces? (was Text Parsing) Adam Wiggins
- thoughts Matthew Mihaly
- Game Economies Timothy O'Neill Dang
- Game Economies Matthew Mihaly
- Game Economies Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game Economies Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game Economies Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game Economies Marian Griffith
- Game Economies Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game Economies Marian Griffith
- Game Economies Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game Economies Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game Economies Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game Economies Matthew Mihaly
- Game Economies J C Lawrence
- Game Economies Timothy O'Neill Dang
- Game Economies Koster, Raph
- Game Economies J C Lawrence
- Game Economies Adam Wiggins
- Game Economies Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game Economies Greg Miller
- Game Economies Ross Nicoll
- Game Economies Koster, Raph
- Game Economies Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game Economies Jo Dillon
- Game Economies Ross Nicoll
- Game Economies Marian Griffith
- Game Economies Jo Dillon
- Game Economies Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Game Economies Koster, Raph
- Game Economies Timothy O'Neill Dang
- Game Economies Marian Griffith
- Game Economies J C Lawrence
- Game Economies Timothy O'Neill Dang
- Game Economies Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game Economies Timothy O'Neill Dang
- Game Economies Timothy O'Neill Dang
- Game Economies Timothy O'Neill Dang
- Game Economies Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game Economies Jo Dillon
- Game Economies Timothy O'Neill Dang
- Game Economies Jo Dillon
- Game Economies Matthew Mihaly
- Game Economies Koster, Raph
- Game Economies J C Lawrence
- Game Economies Greg Munt
- Game Economies Matthew Mihaly
- Game Economies Jon A. Lambert
- Game Economies Shawn Halpenny
- Game Economies Brandon J. Rickman
- Game Economies Jon A. Lambert
- Game Economies Shane King
- Game Economies Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game Economies Matthew Mihaly
- Game Economies Koster, Raph
- Game Economies Nathan F Yospe
- Game Economies Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game Economies J C Lawrence
- Game Economies J C Lawrence
- Game Economies Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game Economies Matthew Mihaly
- Game Economies Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game Economies Koster, Raph
- Game Economies Brandon J. Rickman
- Game Economies Marian Griffith
- Game Economies Katrina McClelan
- Game Economies Adam Wiggins
- Game Economies Katrina McClelan
- Game Economies Albert
- Game Economies Jp Calderone
- Game Economies Laurel Fan
- Game Economies Albert
- Game Economies Charles Hughes
- Game Economies J C Lawrence
- Game Economies Matthew Mihaly
- Game Economies Mik Clarke
- Game Economies Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game Economies Ling
- Game Economies Ling
- Game Economies Mik Clarke
- Rooms Greg Munt
- Parsing Text Output Jon A. Lambert
- Parsing Text Output Chris Gray
- MUD-Dev request rejected Greg Miller
- Interface/Custom Clients Greg Miller
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)y Mark Gritter
- Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)y Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or against each other? Greg Munt
- Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or against each other? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or against each other? Matthew Mihaly
- Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or against each other? Koster, Raph
- Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or against each other? Ross Nicoll
- Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or against each other? Richard Bartle
- Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or againsteach other? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or against each other? Christopher Allen
- Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or against each other? Richard Bartle
- CVS repository for ScryMUD is online at scry.wanfear.com Ben Greear
- Mihaly's Combat Greg Munt
- Mihaly's Combat Matthew Mihaly
- Looking for UML David95037@aol.com
- Looking for UML Greg Munt
- Looking for UML David95037@aol.com
- Slogans (Game Economies) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Slogans (Game Economies) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- A couple Qs, and thanks Ben Greear
- Understanding and "should-ness" Matthew Mihaly
- Understanding and "should-ness" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Personalities J C Lawrence
- realism Matthew Mihaly
- Gender and Mud Development Nathan F Yospe
- Gender and Mud Development Greg Miller
- Gender and Mud Development Katrina McClelan
- Gender and Mud Development Jon A. Lambert
- Gender and Mud Development Matthew Mihaly
- Gender and Mud Development Jon A. Lambert
- Gender and Mud Development Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Gender and Mud Development David Holz
- Gender and Mud Development Jon A. Lambert
- Gender and Mud Development Matthew Mihaly
- Gender and Mud Development Greg Miller
- Gender and Mud Development J C Lawrence
- Gender and Mud Development Koster, Raph
- Gender and Mud Development J C Lawrence
- Gender and Mud Development Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Gender and Mud Development J C Lawrence
- Gender and Mud Development Koster, Raph
- Gender and Mud Development Greg Munt
- Gender and Mud Development Greg Miller
- Gender and Mud Development Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Gender and Mud Development Marian Griffith
- Gender and Mud Development Matthew Mihaly
- Gender and Mud Development Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Gender and Mud Development Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Gender and Mud Development Adam Wiggins
- Gender and Mud Development Travis S. Casey
- Gender and Mud Development Marian Griffith
- Newbies (was Text Parsing) John Hopson
- Newbies (was Text Parsing) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Average play time? Timothy O'Neill Dang
- Average play time? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Average play time? Koster, Raph
- {OT} Gender and Mud Development Wendy Winkler
- AOL lawsuit (was text parsing) Koster, Raph
- Sexual archetypes claw@kanga.nu
- Systems and concepts Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some) Katrina McClelan
- Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some) Koster, Raph
- Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some) Greg Miller
- Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some) J C Lawrence
- Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some) Jon A. Lambert
- Games within Games [Was: Gender and Mud Development] Kristen Koster
- Games within Games [Was: Gender and Mud Development] Greg Miller
- Games within Games [Was: Gender and Mud Development] Kristen Koster
- Games within Games [Was: Gender and Mud Development] Jon A. Lambert
- Games within Games [Was: Gender and Mud Development] Kristen Koster
- Games within Games [Was: Gender and Mud Development] Marian Griffith
- Tactical Combat and Traps (was the gender thread) Katrina McClelan
- Game construction and a big mistake Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game construction and a big mistake Marc Bowden
- Game construction and a big mistake Greg Miller
- Game construction and a big mistake Matthew Mihaly
- Game construction and a big mistake Willowreed@aol.com
- Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some) Koster, Raph
- Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some) claw@kanga.nu
- Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some) Marc Bowden
- Client-Server vs. Peer-to-Peer -- Implementing DIS on the Internet claw@kanga.nu
A decent summary of an older thread here:
http://artoo.hemmet.s-hem.chalmers.se/~crozius/resources/dis/cs-vs-ptp.html
-<cut>-
Client-Server vs. Peer-to-Peer
Implementing DIS on the Internet
Niklas Elmqvist (d97elm@dtek.chalmers.se).
6 January 1999
Introduction
The DIS standard has traditionally implied a so-called peer-to-peer
architecture -- in this setup, there is no central server and the
clients communicate with each other directly. An example of this is
that all clients are responsible for broadcasting their status to
the rest of the world at a regular basis. In addition, clients are
also responsible for reporting fired shots, and the targeted client
is then charged with computing whether or not the shot hit and the
extents of the damages. A peer-to-peer structure plainly allows much
greater flexibility when it comes to distribution -- all the
computing load is more or less evenly distributed across the
individual clients, at least in theory, thus avoiding the need for a
powerful number-crunching server.
However, peer-to-peer has some inherent problems which makes it
unsuitable for use on untrusted networks with high potential
latency, the main one being the all-important issue of security. In
addition, having all peers communicate with each other introduces a
lot of overhead on large and slow networks, and thus, this
architecture scales very poorly with an increasing number of
clients. In a client-server architecture, on the other hand, clients
are connected to a (or several) central server which handles the
brunt of all computation -- the clients only receive information
pertinent to their own situation, and are given a lot less leeway in
terms of responsibilities and decision-making. Clearly, this
remedies many of the earlier problems, but introduces a few new
ones.
It is the goal of this paper to discuss the advantages and
disadvantages of these two communication paradigms and weigh them
against each other to find the most suitable one.
Acknowledgements
Many people from the MUD-Dev mailing list contributed greatly to the
creation of this document. These honorable and knowledgable
individuals have been duly credited below. (Please note that I have
not even tried to attribute different portions of the text to
specific persons -- this paper is a mosaic of their and my opinions
and the lines are all blurred.) Thank you for your help.
Greg Underwood - MUD-Dev denizen and DIS expert.
JC Lawrence - maintainer of the MUD-Dev mailing list.
Ling - MUD-Dev denizen.
Marc Hernandez - MUD-Dev denizen.
Raph Koster - MUD-Dev denizen and Ultima On-Line Designer Dragon
Peer-to-Peer
As stated earlier, we are interested in investigating a suitable
communication paradigm for untrusted and high-latency networks such
as the Internet, FMIP (the Swedish Defense IP Network), or other
large-scale WANs. A traditional DoD DIS system would use a
peer-to-peer architecture, treating all nodes as equal and avoiding
the use of a central server. This means that the clients themselves
are arbiters for resolving vital simulation issues in the world, in
essence making each node into its own server.
The benefits of this setup is clearly that the system is totally
distributed and does not depend on number-crunching central
servers. All simulators are treated the same, and may leave and
enter the simulation at will.
However, in order for the peer-to-peer paradigm to work well, the
following assumptions must be met:
All nodes are equally trustworthy.
Bandwidth is free.
Latency is low.
Nodes have infinite resources.
While these assumptions certainly are viable for use on
high-performance LANs such as those DIS software traditionally has
been run on (meaning high-budget government/military simulation
systems), they ring hollow in the context of large, untrusted,
high-latency networks such as the Internet. Here, not only are
client resources and bandwidth limited, but security aspects also
come into play as clients can no longer be trusted with vital
decisions.
Bandwidth
For one thing, the fact that every node in the simulation is
required to inform all other nodes about its status may actually
swamp even the fastest of networks if a sufficently large number of
clients connect. Add the fact that the Internet and similar networks
are, at best, moderately fast, and you have a recipe for
failure. Techniques such as IP broadcasting and multicasting would
certainly do a lot towards solving the bandwidth problem, but
existing routing hardware (mostly manufactured by Cisco) have
notoriously low performance with these methods, and this is a fact
that is not likely to change in the immediate future.
Scalability
Even if the bandwidth problem would be solved, the issue of
computation will quickly rear its ugly head. If each node is
informed of the status of all other nodes, the computation load for
the node will thus increase linearly with the number of connected
clients. This is distribution, yes, but distribution in extremis,
since there will be a tremendous amount of redundancy in the
calculations performed by the nodes. Granted, a publish/subscribe
messaging system as proposed in the new HLA (high-level
architecture) standard would help immensely with reducing this
problem, as well as, to a certain extent, the bandwith problem.
In other words, a peer-to-peer setup might very well be valid for
small virtual worlds with only a few connected clients (cf the
earliest Doom and Duke Nukem 3D PC multiplayer games which used a
peer-to-peer model), but does not scale at all for larger numbers of
clients.
Latency
Latency is not a big problem on high-end LANs such as those employed
by governments, but is, unfortunately, a fact of life on the
Internet. In a DIS context, latency will have a large impact on
"fairness" since the average latency for different nodes bears no
relation to each other. Without a server acting as a latency
mediator, this fairness problem will become a real issue.
Network Access
Another, slightly more minor, issue with peer-to-peer software is
that they might be hard to find and contact on large networks such
as the big wide Internet. One of the main reasons for putting up
servers in the first place is that they usually have well-known
network addresses which makes it trivial for clients to
connect. Peer-to-peer systems do not have this benefit, as there is
no server and the coming and goings of the individual clients is
completely haphazard.
Security
The final and most important drawback of the DIS peer-to-peer model
is the inherent lack of security. First of all, the DIS standard has
no explicit security mechanism, not even an entrance gatekeeper. In
other words, clients are allowed to enter and leave games at
will. Naturally, this is highly undesirable when simulation
administrators would like to limit access to a specific
session. Secondly, the fact that the clients themselves are
responsible for arbiting simulation events is a huge security hole
-- it should be a small task for a skilled programmer to hack the
client software, either by using a hex editor or by modifying the
source code (in case of an Open Source project), and make it
cheat. More specifically, in a naive DIS implementation, a tampered
simulator would, upon receiving a message from another simulation
that a shot has been fired upon it, always reply that the shot
missed, or that a very small amount of damage was inflicted. This is
an example of the saying "Never EVER trust the client -- it's in the
hands of the enemy." Experiences from naive multiplayer games such
as Interstate '76 and Diablo is plain proof of the problems which
arise otherwise.
In addition, the fact that each client is supposed to communicate
with its peers also means that the clients will retain the network
addresses of all participants (full IP addresses, in this
case). This kind of setup paves the road for denial-of-service (DoS)
attacks against other clients without having to tamper with the
client executable -- sniffing the destination of outgoing network
packets is sufficient. Many players of Ultime On-Line, Origin's
massively multiplayer on-line game, have been hit especially hard by
this kind of tactics (although the problem here, as the author
understands it, does not stem from the fact that the IP adresses to
other clients is handled by the local client -- they are not -- but
that other network connectivity tools such as ICQ displays the IP
address for others to see).
Conclusion
The conclusion must be that employing DIS across a peer-to-peer
communication model is highly unsuited for use on large, untrusted,
moderate-performance networks such as the Internet.
Client-Server
While not a panacea in its own right, the client-server paradigm is
much better suited than the peer-to-peer one to networks which do
not meet the assumptions listed above. This communication model
centers around the notion of one or several central computers acting
as hubs and game arbiters. Clients do not communicate directly with
each other -- all data is passed strictly between clients and
server. In addition, the server retains decision-making capabilities
for critical game mechanics to maximize security and minimize the
risk of cheating. Below, we will explore the benefits as well as the
disadvantages of using a client-server model for a DIS
implementation.
The first issue and potential disadvantage is that the DIS standard
was not really intended for a client-server approach. Most of the
methods and protocols discussed in the standard implies a
peer-to-peer relationship between nodes. However, it is beyond the
scope of this document to analyze any deviations from the DIS
standard a client-server implementation would entail -- this will be
handled in other documents.
Conclusion
Summary
Updated 1999-01-06 by Niklas Elmqvist (d97elm@dtek.chalmers.se).
-<cut>-
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw@kanga.nu
----------(*) Internet: coder@kanga.nu
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... - Goals and directions (was the gender thing) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #93 - 27 msgs Dr. Cat
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- Gender and Mud Development (drifting off topic again) S. Patrick Gallaty
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- Twisted Reality claw@kanga.nu
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- Object Obsolescence [ WAS: thoughts on game economies ] Shawn Halpenny
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- i got's a question for yall on the best way to do something.. PartyG2816@aol.com
- i got's a question for yall on the best way to do something.. Marc Hernandez
- i got's a question for yall on the best way to do something.. Jim Clark
- i got's a question for yall on the best way to do something.. PartyG2816@aol.com
- i got's a question for yall on the best way to do something.. PartyG2816@aol.com
- Game Design [Simulation] Justin Lockshaw
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #105 - 12 msgs Dr. Cat
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