May 1999
- Object server. Quzah [softhome]
- Censorship & Its Impact On World Immersion J C Lawrence
- OT: Ethics v Law Greg Munt
- Virtual v Artificial Worlds Greg Munt
- Virtual v Artificial Worlds Matthew Mihaly
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? Wes Connell
- Custom Server Roll Call? David Bennett
- Custom Server Roll Call? Koster, Raph
- Custom Server Roll Call? Greg Munt
- Custom Server Roll Call? The Arrow
- Custom Server Roll Call? Alex Stewart
- Custom Server Roll Call? Nathan F Yospe
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Matthew Mihaly
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Chris Gray
- Custom Server Roll Call? Marc Hernandez
- Custom Server Roll Call? Greg Munt
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Matthew Mihaly
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? J C Lawrence
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ling
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Emil Eifrem
- Custom Server Roll Call? Niklas Elmqvist
- Custom Server Roll Call? Chris Gray
- Custom Server Roll Call? Emil Eifrem
- Custom Server Roll Call? Chris Gray
- Custom Server Roll Call? Emil Eifrem
- Custom Server Roll Call? Chris Gray
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? J C Lawrence
- Custom Server Roll Call? Emil Eifrem
- Custom Server Roll Call? Marc Hernandez
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jo Dillon
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Marc Hernandez
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Marc Hernandez
- Custom Server Roll Call? Adam Wiggins
- Custom Server Roll Call? Matthew Mihaly
- Custom Server Roll Call? Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? claw@kanga.nu
- Custom Server Roll Call? Emil Eifrem
- Custom Server Roll Call? Chris Turner
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ling
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jay Carlson
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ling
- Interesting dilemma Peck, Matthew x96724c1
- Interesting dilemma Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Interesting dilemma Quzah [softhome]
- Interesting dilemma Brandon A Downey
- Interesting dilemma Shawn Halpenny
- Interesting dilemma Matthew Mihaly
- Interesting dilemma Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Interesting dilemma Koster, Raph
- Interesting dilemma Wes Connell
- Interesting dilemma Mattias Lönnqvist
- Interesting dilemma Mik Clarke
- Interesting dilemma Joel Kelso
- Interesting dilemma Ronan Farrell
- Harvey's Rules of Immship John Hopson
- Confiscating items (Interesting dilemma) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- AW: Interesting dilemma Hofbauer Heinz
- Virtual Property J C Lawrence
- Virtual Property Koster, Raph
- Virtual Property Jon A. Lambert
- Autogenerating maps from muds using cardinal directions for exits? Ben Greear
- Discussion of large server IO handling desing J C Lawrence
- Planes of existance Quzah [softhome]
- Planes of existance Greg Munt
- Planes of existance Quzah [softhome]
- Planes of existance Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Planes of existance Ben Greear
- Planes of existance Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Planes of existance Greg Munt
- Planes of existance T. Alexander Popiel
- Planes of existance Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Planes of existance Matthew Mihaly
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Ronan Farrell
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Mik Clarke
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Ben Greear
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Richard Bartle
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Matthew Mihaly
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Travis Casey
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Travis Casey
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Jon A. Lambert
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Eli Stevens {KiZurich/GreySylk}
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Jon A. Lambert
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Ling
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Christopher Allen
- old fight system I toyed with Koster, Raph
- APE 0.2.1 J C Lawrence
- OT: robots, agents and emotions Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- OT: robots, agents and emotions Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Time Discontinuous MUD Ling
- Semi-OT: International intellectual property right (was: Custom Server Roll Call?) Custom Server Roll Call?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Semi-OT: International intellectual property rights Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Marc Hernandez' Server Greg Munt
- Marc Hernandez' Server Jay Carlson
- Marc Hernandez' Server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Marc Hernandez' Server Travis S. Casey
- Marc Hernandez' Server Adam Wiggins
- Marc Hernandez' Server Marc Hernandez
- Marc Hernandez' Server qitelremel@hotmail.com
- Scry 1.9.1 (Feature Freeze) released. Ben Greear
- The distinction between magic spells and magic abilities Greg Munt
- The distinction between magic spells and magic abilities Matthew Mihaly
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jo Dillon
- Multi-threaded mud server. Travis S. Casey
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Chris Gray
- Multi-threaded mud server. Chris Gray
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Mik Clarke
- Multi-threaded mud server. Chris Gray
- Multi-threaded mud server. Mik Clarke
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Multi-threaded mud server. Mark Gritter
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Travis S. Casey
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Multi-threaded mud server. David Bennett
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Travis Casey
- Macro languages Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- LOTR and Mud [was: Marc Hernandez' Server] Marc Hernandez
- Noise: boys will be boys (was Multi-threaded mud server.) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Kanga.Nu has finally moved... claw@kanga.nu
- Java & MUD servers Laurent Bossavit
- ScryMUD 1.9.3 released. Ben Greear
- ScryMUD 1.9.3 released. Chris Gray
- ScryMUD 1.9.3 released. Ben Greear
- ScryMUD 1.9.3 released. Jon A. Lambert
- [TECHNICAL] How to generate pre-processor output (template problem). Ben Greear
- Searching the archives claw@kanga.nu
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Kylotan
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Mik Clarke
- Text Parsing Cynbe ru Taren
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Text Parsing Nathan F Yospe
- Text Parsing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Text Parsing Mik Clarke
- Text Parsing Marc Hernandez
- Text Parsing Kylotan
- Text Parsing Ross Nicoll
- Text Parsing Kylotan
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Ross Nicoll
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Mik Clarke
- Text Parsing Ross Nicoll
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Katrina McClelan
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Ben Greear
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing David Bennett
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Cynbe ru Taren
- Text Parsing Katrina McClelan
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Martin C Sweitzer
- Text Parsing Jp Calderone
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Ben Greear
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Ben Greear
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Kylotan
- Text Parsing Koster, Raph
- Text Parsing Ben Greear
- Text Parsing Jon A. Lambert
- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Koster, Raph
- Text Parsing Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Text Parsing Koster, Raph
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing David Bennett
- Text Parsing Ross Nicoll
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Ross Nicoll
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
- Text Parsing Katrina McClelan
- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
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- Text Parsing Jon A. Lambert
- Text Parsing J C Lawrence
- Text Parsing J C Lawrence
On Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:21:28 -0700 (PDT)
Matthew Mihaly <diablo@best.com> wrote:
> Actually, on that note generally, I have read some talk on here,
> in the past, about how some of your servers can handle a LOT of
> users online at once without having speed problems.
I've scaled using simulated users under very artificial conditions
and a rather minimal world to just over 700 simultaneous players on
a fairly mid-range box. Performance at that point really became a
kernel function due to poor MT work on IO under Linux (single lock).
> How the heck do you manage that?
Careful design mostly. I know what things cost, how much they cost,
and how often I absolutely have to do them. This is one of the few
areas where all that CS math you (should have) done in grad school
comes in *really* handy, but is still not really necessary.
> We use an interpreted engine (which I realize is inherently
> slower)...
That's a dangerous and often massively misleading assumption.
Interpreted languages need not be either slow or performance
bottlenecks. LP and BatMUD demonstrate this rather clearly.
LambdaMOO demonstrates rather clearly that this _can_ be a problem
given poor design and implementation. BatMUD shows part of the
other side: that given good and careful work, the performance hit is
a strawman.
> I suspect that our player routines (mainly movement) tend to be
> significantly more complicated than most muds (again, mainly
> movement, due to the enormous number of database searches that
> need doing to check for all sorts of stuff everytime someone
> moves)...
I smell sloppy thinking here. Yes, there is good reason for having
motions trigger cascading state checks. I do it myself, and I
suspect do it to a far greater degree than you do (I've counted over
2,000 state checks resulting from a single most-pessimal move). No,
there is no reason for those state checks not to short circuit
extremely cheaply in the common cases. A heck of a lot of the time
you can determine far more cheaply whether or not you need to make a
variety of checks, than you can do the checks themselves.
> ... but I don't think our mobile ai is particularly complicated,
> although currently mobiles do things regardless of whether players
> are in the room (such as wander about, sleep to heal if wounded,
> gather items they find, etc).
Conversely this is a point where I currently spend massive numbers
of cycles. Its rather ugly.
> We think we're going to have to convert to a UO-style system where
> we split upt he land geographically and run the different areas on
> different servers. That SEEMS, to my not-very-knowledgeable-self,
> to be something that we shouldn't have to do just to get past 100
> players online (i figure I can squeeze out another 33% performance
> from careful optimization).
The above simultaneous simulated user load was on a low end
AlphaStation with 192Meg of RAM (forget CPU # and clock) whose
performance is roughly equivalent to a P300 with 64Meg RAM (Alpha
code and data density is very low). That box got me up to 700
users, at which point it essentially cratered. Given a decent PC
base, I see little reason you shouldn't be able to pass the 1,500
point modulus Linux kernel issues (such as the single IO lock).
Aside: When in performance doubt, don't use normal SCSI or IDE
storage devices under Linux. Go for one of the DAC960 based
hardware RAID cards. Linux'es SCSI stack is rather poor and the
DAC960 drivers bypass the SCSI stack and implement their own (much
faster) layer. Given RAID 0/1 you can run at nominal SCSI buss
speed with very very little effort.
> Can anyone tell me if this seems normal to you?
Get a profiler. Get some performance statistics. Find out where
you are spending your time. Determine if that is actually
necessary, or whether implementation or architectural changes can
remove the requirement. Repeat this process several times until
there are no obvious bottlenecks, or any remaining bottlenecks are
either fundamental and uneconomical to remove, or implicit in
systems you don't control (eg kernel, device drivers, external
latency etc).
--
J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu
---------(*) Linux/IA64 - Work: claw@varesearch.com
... Beware of cromagnons wearing chewing gum and palm pilots ... - Text Parsing Joey Hess
- Text Parsing J C Lawrence
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
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- Text Parsing Koster, Raph
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
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- Text Parsing Chris Gray
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- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
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- Text Parsing Jon A. Lambert
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- Text Parsing Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
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- Text Parsing Petri Virkkula
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- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
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- Dylan Programming Language Ling
- Dylan Programming Language Jon A. Lambert
- Ultimate Universe Documentation Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Oh yeah... Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [TECHNICAL] [SOLVED] (template problem). Ben Greear
- [RELEASE] ScryMUD 1.9.4 available for download. Ben Greear