May 1999
- Object server. Quzah [softhome]
- Censorship & Its Impact On World Immersion J C Lawrence
- OT: Ethics v Law Greg Munt
- Virtual v Artificial Worlds Greg Munt
- Virtual v Artificial Worlds Matthew Mihaly
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? Wes Connell
- Custom Server Roll Call? David Bennett
- Custom Server Roll Call? Koster, Raph
- Custom Server Roll Call? Greg Munt
- Custom Server Roll Call? The Arrow
- Custom Server Roll Call? Alex Stewart
- Custom Server Roll Call? Nathan F Yospe
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
On 6 May 99,, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
> "Jon A. Lambert" wrote:
> > On 5 May 99,, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
>
> I don't think so, although on this list I do of course refer to the
> making of sofware!!
I should have rephrased this better. The above practices are peculiar to
the process of creating software where another similar software system
exists. Those engineering practices are not common when created software
systems which model other systems which are described in another medium
(in this case the AD&D rules book).
For instance, there exists a substantial body of software which was first
described in academic papers. The authors of the software most certainly
used the academic papers as the basis of the software, yet separate and
distinct copyrights exist. Legally speaking, the software is NOT a
derived work of the paper.
> Ideas are not protected.
I agree.
> This is just a way to prove that you
> have not built on somebody else's work.
What I am trying to say is these precautions are totally unnecessary.
In fact someone who creates a MUD based exactly on the AD&D system can
shout to the rooftops that they had the Dungeon Masters Guide in their
left hand while they did it.
> > I would disagree here. Game systems cannot be copyrighted.
>
> _All_ the _works_ you create are copyrighted. If you make a copy or
> translate an existing system then it is a derived work. If you build on
> ideas in an existing work then it is not a derived work.
I will say one has to use common sense and be careful of the fine line
between what is "literary" and what is "system".
Let me present two examples of the distinction between game system and
literary work (apologies for my formatting):
---cut---
Example one - from the AD&D DMG:
Table 7:
Racial Class and Level Limits*
Character Class Character Races
Human Dwarf Elf Gnome Half-elf Halfling
Bard U U
Cleric U 10 12 9 14 8
Druid U 9
blah... blah..
Example from Mud:
switch (race)
case: HUMAN
if class=BARD upper_lvl_limit = 'U';
if class=CLERIC upper_lvl_limit = 'U';
if class=DRUID upper_lvl_limit = 'U';
case: DWARF
..... blah
---cut---
This above though it models the AD&D game system and table exactly is NOT
a copyright violation. No matter how you implemented the algorithm. The
use of game system terminology such as cleric, bard, druid, class, race,
level is also NOT a copyright violation. Why? Because the individual
terms that express a system concept are not copyrightable. Otherwise I
wouldn't be able to use the terms paging and socket in describing any
system.
Example two from a mud help file:
---cut---
> help sun blade
Sun Blade: This sword is the size of a bastard sword. However, its
enchantment enables the sun blade to be wielded as if it were a short
sword with respect to encumbrance, weight, speed factor, and ease of use
(i.e., the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and
inflicts bastard sword damage, but the wielder feels and reacts as if the
weapon were a short sword). Any individual able to use either a bastard
sword or a short sword with proficiency is proficient in the use of a sun
blade. In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal
to a +2 sword. Against evil creatures, its bonus is +4. Against Negative
Energy Plane creatures or those drawing power from that plane (such as
certain undead), the sword inflicts double damage. Furthermore, the
blade has a special sunray power. Once a day, upon command, the blade can
be swung vigorously above the head, and it will shed a bright yellow
radiance that is like full daylight. The radiance begins shining in a 10-
foot radius around the sword-wielder, spreading outward at 5 feet per
round for 10 rounds thereafter, creating a globe of light with a 60-foot
radius. When the swinging stops, the radiance fades to a dim glow that
persists for another turn before disappearing entirely. All sun blades
are of good alignment.
---cut---
Zoinks. A blatant copyright violation. The MUD owner should be sued,
convicted and hanged. Also the appearance of the above Race/Class level
limit table literally in a help file or message would be a Copyright
violation. However one might venture on their own to provide the
following:
> help dwarf-cleric
Dwarven clerics are somewhat limited in their progression because
the Great God GooGoo despises the little buggers.
> I've recently become aware of some exceptions though. For instance, you
> may produce copies freely if you do it as research in the US (fair
> use/progress of science). In other words researchers does not have to
> heed copyrights, if it prevents them from making a scientific progress.
My use of the above examples directly transcribed from the AD&D DMG is
yet another example of "fair use".
> > OTOH, The practical bottom line is this: If you receive a letter
> > from a
> > big corporate lawyer, immediately comply with whatever the hell they
> > want, or be prepared to play the game of legal bluff and blunder, and
> > accept the consequences, unjust though they may be.
>
> Nope, in the international community you don't :)
Huh? I don't understand. You can't be sued and overwhelmed in court by
someone with a bigger bankroll? Or Non-US ISPs don't get jittery and
wobbly feet when threatened? I missed something here. ;)
> I agree that it is off topic, but I think it is important that
> listmembers understand that ideas are NOT protected.
I agree wholeheartedly. Remember a game system is also an idea. The
expression of the system as a rules book protects the rules book, and
does not protect another expression of that system in another medium.
The expression of a written rule as an software algorithm is perfectly
fine. You WILL get into trouble if you express that written rule
literally, or significantly within the software.
--
--* Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Email:jlsysinc@.ix.netcom.com *--
--* Mud Server Developer's Page <http://pw1.netcom.com/~jlsysinc> *--
--* I am the Dragon of Grindly Grund, but my lunches aren't very much fun, *--
--* For I like my damsels medium rare, And they always come out well done. *-- - Custom Server Roll Call? Matthew Mihaly
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Chris Gray
- Custom Server Roll Call? Marc Hernandez
- Custom Server Roll Call? Greg Munt
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Matthew Mihaly
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? J C Lawrence
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ling
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jon A. Lambert
- Custom Server Roll Call? Emil Eifrem
- Custom Server Roll Call? Niklas Elmqvist
- Custom Server Roll Call? Chris Gray
- Custom Server Roll Call? Emil Eifrem
- Custom Server Roll Call? Chris Gray
- Custom Server Roll Call? Emil Eifrem
- Custom Server Roll Call? Chris Gray
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? J C Lawrence
- Custom Server Roll Call? Emil Eifrem
- Custom Server Roll Call? Marc Hernandez
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jo Dillon
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Marc Hernandez
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Marc Hernandez
- Custom Server Roll Call? Adam Wiggins
- Custom Server Roll Call? Matthew Mihaly
- Custom Server Roll Call? Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? claw@kanga.nu
- Custom Server Roll Call? Emil Eifrem
- Custom Server Roll Call? Chris Turner
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ling
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? Jay Carlson
- Custom Server Roll Call? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Custom Server Roll Call? Ling
- Interesting dilemma Peck, Matthew x96724c1
- Interesting dilemma Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Interesting dilemma Quzah [softhome]
- Interesting dilemma Brandon A Downey
- Interesting dilemma Shawn Halpenny
- Interesting dilemma Matthew Mihaly
- Interesting dilemma Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Interesting dilemma Koster, Raph
- Interesting dilemma Wes Connell
- Interesting dilemma Mattias Lönnqvist
- Interesting dilemma Mik Clarke
- Interesting dilemma Joel Kelso
- Interesting dilemma Ronan Farrell
- Harvey's Rules of Immship John Hopson
- Confiscating items (Interesting dilemma) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- AW: Interesting dilemma Hofbauer Heinz
- Virtual Property J C Lawrence
- Virtual Property Koster, Raph
- Virtual Property Jon A. Lambert
- Autogenerating maps from muds using cardinal directions for exits? Ben Greear
- Discussion of large server IO handling desing J C Lawrence
- Planes of existance Quzah [softhome]
- Planes of existance Greg Munt
- Planes of existance Quzah [softhome]
- Planes of existance Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Planes of existance Ben Greear
- Planes of existance Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Planes of existance Greg Munt
- Planes of existance T. Alexander Popiel
- Planes of existance Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Planes of existance Matthew Mihaly
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Ronan Farrell
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Mik Clarke
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Ben Greear
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Koster, Raph
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Richard Bartle
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Matthew Mihaly
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Travis Casey
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Travis Casey
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Jon A. Lambert
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Eli Stevens {KiZurich/GreySylk}
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Jon A. Lambert
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Ling
- Dynamically changing room descriptions Christopher Allen
- old fight system I toyed with Koster, Raph
- APE 0.2.1 J C Lawrence
- OT: robots, agents and emotions Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- OT: robots, agents and emotions Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Time Discontinuous MUD Ling
- Semi-OT: International intellectual property right (was: Custom Server Roll Call?) Custom Server Roll Call?) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Semi-OT: International intellectual property rights Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Marc Hernandez' Server Greg Munt
- Marc Hernandez' Server Jay Carlson
- Marc Hernandez' Server Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Marc Hernandez' Server Travis S. Casey
- Marc Hernandez' Server Adam Wiggins
- Marc Hernandez' Server Marc Hernandez
- Marc Hernandez' Server qitelremel@hotmail.com
- Scry 1.9.1 (Feature Freeze) released. Ben Greear
- The distinction between magic spells and magic abilities Greg Munt
- The distinction between magic spells and magic abilities Matthew Mihaly
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jo Dillon
- Multi-threaded mud server. Travis S. Casey
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Chris Gray
- Multi-threaded mud server. Chris Gray
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Mik Clarke
- Multi-threaded mud server. Chris Gray
- Multi-threaded mud server. Mik Clarke
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Multi-threaded mud server. Mark Gritter
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Travis S. Casey
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Multi-threaded mud server. David Bennett
- Multi-threaded mud server. Ross Nicoll
- Multi-threaded mud server. Jon A. Lambert
- Multi-threaded mud server. Travis Casey
- Macro languages Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- LOTR and Mud [was: Marc Hernandez' Server] Marc Hernandez
- Noise: boys will be boys (was Multi-threaded mud server.) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Kanga.Nu has finally moved... claw@kanga.nu
- Java & MUD servers Laurent Bossavit
- ScryMUD 1.9.3 released. Ben Greear
- ScryMUD 1.9.3 released. Chris Gray
- ScryMUD 1.9.3 released. Ben Greear
- ScryMUD 1.9.3 released. Jon A. Lambert
- [TECHNICAL] How to generate pre-processor output (template problem). Ben Greear
- Searching the archives claw@kanga.nu
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Kylotan
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Mik Clarke
- Text Parsing Cynbe ru Taren
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Text Parsing Nathan F Yospe
- Text Parsing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Text Parsing Mik Clarke
- Text Parsing Marc Hernandez
- Text Parsing Kylotan
- Text Parsing Ross Nicoll
- Text Parsing Kylotan
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Ross Nicoll
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Mik Clarke
- Text Parsing Ross Nicoll
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Katrina McClelan
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Ben Greear
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing David Bennett
- Text Parsing Travis Casey
- Text Parsing Cynbe ru Taren
- Text Parsing Katrina McClelan
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Martin C Sweitzer
- Text Parsing Jp Calderone
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Ben Greear
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Ben Greear
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Kylotan
- Text Parsing Koster, Raph
- Text Parsing Ben Greear
- Text Parsing Jon A. Lambert
- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Koster, Raph
- Text Parsing Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Text Parsing Koster, Raph
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing David Bennett
- Text Parsing Ross Nicoll
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Ross Nicoll
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Travis S. Casey
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
- Text Parsing Katrina McClelan
- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
- Text Parsing Katrina McClelan
- Text Parsing Jon A. Lambert
- Text Parsing J C Lawrence
- Text Parsing J C Lawrence
- Text Parsing Joey Hess
- Text Parsing J C Lawrence
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing J C Lawrence
- Text Parsing Koster, Raph
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Koster, Raph
- Text Parsing Chris Gray
- Text Parsing Albert
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing J C Lawrence
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Jon A. Lambert
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Text Parsing claw@kanga.nu
- Text Parsing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Text Parsing Greg Miller
- Text Parsing Petri Virkkula
- Text Parsing Matthew Mihaly
- Text Parsing Petri Virkkula
- Text Parsing Adam Wiggins
- Text Parsing Katrina McClelan
- Text Parsing Petri Virkkula
- Dylan Programming Language Ling
- Dylan Programming Language Jon A. Lambert
- Ultimate Universe Documentation Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Oh yeah... Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [TECHNICAL] [SOLVED] (template problem). Ben Greear
- [RELEASE] ScryMUD 1.9.4 available for download. Ben Greear