April 1999
- In-Game Languages Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- In-Game Languages Per Vognsen
- In-Game Languages Chris Gray
- In-Game Languages Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- In-Game Languages Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- In-Game Languages Matthew D. Fuller
- In-Game Languages Mik Clarke
- In-Game Languages Michael Hohensee
- In-Game Languages Ben Greear
- In-Game Languages Michael Hohensee
- In-Game Languages Mik Clarke
- In-Game Languages Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- In-Game Languages David Bennett
- In-Game Languages Richard Woolcock
- In-Game Languages Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- In-Game Languages Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- In-Game Languages Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- In-Game Languages Andrew Ritchie
- In-Game Languages Matthew D. Fuller
- In-Game Languages adam@treyarch.com
- forward: consistency Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Confined Gameworld Ling
- Confined Gameworld Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Confined Gameworld Richard Woolcock
- Confined Gameworld Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Confined Gameworld The Wildman
- Confined Gameworld Koster, Raph
- User centered? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- User centered? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- User centered? Marc Bowden
- User centered? Adam Wiggins
- User centered? Richard Woolcock
- User centered? Benjamin D. Wiechel
- User centered? Koster, Raph
- target audience Matthew Mihaly
- target audience Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- target audience Marc Bowden
- Fw: Self-organizing worlds (was: Elder Games) Kylotan
- Fw: Self-organizing worlds (was: Elder Games) Matthew Mihaly
- ScryMUD 1.8.11 released. Ben Greear
- Mud driver architecture info B. Scott Boding
- Blending graphics with text u1391470
- Blending graphics with text Laurel Fan
- Blending graphics with text Kylotan
- Blending graphics with text Chris Gray
- Blending graphics with text J C Lawrence
- Blending graphics with text Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Blending graphics with text Chris Gray
- Blending graphics with text Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Blending graphics with text Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Blending graphics with text Mik Clarke
- Blending graphics with text u1391470
- Blending graphics with text claw@kanga.nu
- Blending graphics with text Alex Stewart
- Blending graphics with text J C Lawrence
- Virtual machine design Shane King
- Virtual machine design Alex Stewart
- Virtual machine design Jo Dillon
- Virtual machine design Ben Greear
- Virtual machine design Niklas Elmqvist
- Virtual machine design Shane King
- Virtual machine design Ben Greear
- Virtual machine design claw@kanga.nu
- Virtual machine design Alex Stewart
> In other words, at least the players I have seen, can barely write
> decent english (or any other language) or hold a thought long enough
> to write an entire zone. A few simple scripts have been attempted by
> others, but nothing like conditional branches or anything...
Boy, we are just full of condescention toward our users, aren't we?
Sheesh.. Had it ever occurred to you that maybe the reason your users are all
stupid is because your system is one that only attracts stupid users (possibly
because of its lack of support for anything more sophisticated)?
Having worked for many years with programmable MUD systems and their users, I
can personally say that there is a _huge_ number of users out there who are
capable and interested in learning such languages and using them to do, in some
cases, truly amazing things. I've worked on systems whose entire code base has
been continually evolved over long perioods of time by literally hundreds of
contributors, most of whom were simply average users who decided they wanted a
feature, and so coded it.
> I doubt that anyone will put forth the effort to learn a new language
> to write mud code for your server. If they are the kind of person
> that will, then they really want to write the server instead :)
You seem to be really missing the point here. If the server is defined by its
internal code, then by writing code in the internal system, they _are_ writing
the server. Moreover, with proper security constraints, average users can do
server hacking on many aspects of the system, without even having to be
the system admin, without needing to work with tedious details the system
can handle better anyway, and can see their results immediately (and share them
with a pre-existing community which can then extend them in other ways).
> I'll offer an anecedote: I used to play a Diku (JediMUD). I got
> tintin++
> and learned how to use it's 'programming' language (ie a bunch of
> pattern
> matching and scripting).
If this is your definition of "programming" then I'm beginning to understand
your myopia.
> the grail that led me to code. I don't think there is anything short of
> an OS that could hold my attention, and the possibilities I wanted to
> code. That is why I doubt that anyone would really want to use such
> an in-game coding language. It is either too restrictive, or you've
> re-written UNIX.
You've obviously never looked at MOO, LPMUD, or ColdMUDs (there are several
others, but these are the most notable).
> Be careful here. It may be more efficient to run a few scripts and have
> your normal code be native, than put almost everything in interpreted
> code.
Oh, yes, it would definitely be more efficient to put things in native code,
but sometimes efficiency isn't everything.
> Those java folks weren't stupid,
Actually, I have to disagree with this. Some of the design decisions in Java
were, in my opinion, actually rather stupid (or at least poorly thought out),
but that's a side issue...
> and they had extreme ammounts of manpower and time...
This isn't really true either.. in actuality most of Java was done by only a
few guys and then had its goals changed several times until it was rushed into
production by Sun when they saw an opportunity to grab a market.
> I wonder how much easier it will be to add your own code at run time,
> versus
> writing it in c/c++/java/?? and promoting into the [CVS??] load. Either
> way you have security issues that will be hard to beat.
These security issues have been beaten quite effectively in many systems
already. Look around a bit.
-alex
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alex Stewart - riche@crl.com - Richelieu @ Diversity University MOO
http://www.crl.com/~riche
"For the world is hollow, and I have touched the sky."
- Virtual machine design Felix A. Croes
- Virtual machine design Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Virtual machine design Mik Clarke
- Virtual machine design Schubert, Damion
- Virtual machine design Ben Greear
- Virtual machine design Ben Greear
- Virtual machine design Felix A. Croes
- Virtual machine design Matthew Mihaly
- Virtual machine design Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Virtual machine design claw@kanga.nu
- Virtual machine design Mik Clarke
- Virtual machine design Oliver Jowett
- Virtual machine design Chris Gray
- Virtual machine design claw@kanga.nu
- Virtual machine design Chris Gray
- Virtual machine design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Virtual machine design claw@kanga.nu
- Virtual machine design Petri Virkkula
- Virtual machine design Ben Greear
- Virtual machine design Chris Gray
- Virtual machine design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Virtual machine design Nathan F Yospe
- Virtual machine design Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Virtual machine design Petri Virkkula
- Virtual machine design Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual machine design Koster, Raph
- Virtual machine design Jon A. Lambert
- Virtual machine design Chris Gray
- Rebooting (was: Virtual machine design) Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Game design highpoints (was Virtual machine design) claw@kanga.nu
- Sockets Quzah [softhome]
- ScryMUD 1.8.13 snapshot released. Ben Greear
- Interview I did that may interest you Koster, Raph
- Censorship Greg Munt
- Censorship Ben Greear
- Censorship Matthew Mihaly
- Censorship Shawn Halpenny
- Censorship Darren Henderson
- Censorship Quzah [softhome]
- Censorship Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Python B. Scott Boding
- Python Gaffney, Jeremy
- AW: Censorship Hofbauer Heinz
- AW: Censorship Matthew Mihaly
- AW: Censorship Damion Schubert
- Censorship, Virtual v Artificial Worlds, Python Greg Munt
- Censorship, Virtual v Artificial Worlds, Python Matthew Mihaly
- Censorship, Virtual v Artificial Worlds, Python Ben Greear
- Censorship, Virtual v Artificial Worlds, Python Matthew Mihaly
- Censorship, Virtual v Artificial Worlds, Python Matthew Mihaly
- Censorship, Virtual v Artificial Worlds, Python Ben Greear
- Censorship, Virtual v Artificial Worlds, Python Dan
- Censorship, Virtual v Artificial Worlds, Python Matthew Mihaly
- Censorship, Virtual v Artificial Worlds, Python Marian Griffith
- Censorship, Virtual v Artificial Worlds, Python Benjamin D. Wiechel
- Censorship & Its Impact On World Immersion Greg Munt
- Censorship & Its Impact On World Immersion Matthew Mihaly