December 1999
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? PartyG2816@aol.com
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? claw@kanga.nu
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? Marc Bowden
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? Lo, Kam
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? Marc Hernandez
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? Kræn Munck
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? PartyG2816@aol.com
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? Andrew Norman
- Neural Networks as the AI system for a MUD? Mik Clarke
- New member IronWolf
- Scenarios Chris Lloyd
- ColdStore J C Lawrence
- New AI Engine released Fabian
- New AI Engine released Steve Houchard
- New AI Engine released Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- New AI Engine released Elysium
- AI's in MUDS and Online Gaming IronWolf
- AI's in MUDS and Online Gaming Matthew Mihaly
- AI's in MUDS and Online Gaming IronWolf
- AI's in MUDS and Online Gaming Ryan P.
- Garbage Collection Miroslav Silovic
- Capture of players. (was: Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Kræn Munck
- Capture of players. (was: Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) J C Lawrence
- Capture of players. (was: Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Chris Lloyd
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Richard Ross
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Mik Clarke
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) J C Lawrence
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Greg Miller
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Dundee
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Travis S. Casey
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Douglas Couch
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Marc Hernandez
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) J C Lawrence
- Biosystems (was Fair/Unfair? Scenarios) Mik Clarke
- Ideas for dynamic worlds Nolan Darilek
- Ideas for dynamic worlds Chimera
- Ideas for dynamic worlds Ilya, Game Commandos
- Ideas for dynamic worlds J C Lawrence
- Ideas for dynamic worlds Nolan Darilek
- Ideas for dynamic worlds Joe Kingry
- Ideas for dynamic worlds David Morgan
- The GTS Library J C Lawrence
- Combat systems Neil Edwards
- Combat systems Kylotan
- Combat systems Kylotan
- Combat systems Chris Lloyd
- Combat systems J C Lawrence
- Combat systems Marc Spoorendonk
- Combat Systems Ben
- Combat Systems Raph Koster
- Metakit J C Lawrence
- Commercial Online Roleplaying Games (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Mud-Dev FAQ Marian Griffith
- Mass bannings (was The grass is always greener in the other field) AR Schleicher
- Game Balance: Statistical Analysis in MPORPGs Lovecraft
- Game Balance: Statistical Analysis in MPORPGs Koster, Raph
- Biosystems & simulation [RAMBLE] Ben Greear
- Souveniers Douglas Couch
- Souveniers Lovecraft
- Souveniers J C Lawrence
- Souveniers Raph & Kristen Koster
- Souveniers J C Lawrence
- Souveniers Raph & Kristen Koster
- Ideas for dynamically generated worlds Cynbe ru Taren
- Ideas for dynamically generated worlds J C Lawrence
- Balancing between anxiety and boredom (was Fair/Unf air? Scenarios (fwd) ) Sellers, Michael
- Online Migration and population mobility in a virtual gaming setting - Ultima Online J C Lawrence
- lockpicking Matthew Mihaly
- Optimized Object Storage Ian Macintosh
- Optimized Object Storage Sellers, Michael
- Optimized Object Storage Matthew Mihaly
- Optimized Object Storage J C Lawrence
- Optimized Object Storage Ian Macintosh
- Optimized Object Storage Ian Macintosh
- Optimized Object Storage Sellers, Michael
- Optimized Object Storage Ian Macintosh
- The Habitat Papers are missing J C Lawrence
- Waving Hands -- Debian's Spellcast for Linux J C Lawrence
- Waving Hands -- Debian's Spellcast for Linux Dan Shiovitz
- Waving Hands -- Debian's Spellcast for Linux Travis Casey
- Waving Hands -- Debian's Spellcast for Linux J C Lawrence
- Upload to ftp.kanga.nu J C Lawrence
- Farewell again Ilya, GC
- Telnet Protocol and Winsocks method
- Telnet Protocol and Winsocks J C Lawrence
- Telnet Protocol and Winsocks cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Telnet Protocol and Winsocks Ilya, GC
- Telnet Protocol and Winsocks J C Lawrence
- Proper liscense for MUD source? Perhaps not GPL... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Proper liscense for MUD source? Perhaps not GPL... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Proper liscense for MUD source? Perhaps not GPL... (fwd) Ben Greear
- Proper liscense for MUD source? Perhaps not GPL... (fwd) Christopher Allen
- Proper liscense for MUD source? Perhaps not GPL... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Proper liscense for MUD source? Perhaps not GPL... (fwd) Christopher Allen
- MUD source licensing: beyond GPL? (fwd) J C Lawrence
- MUD source licensing: beyond GPL? (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Classes and Races and more (a BIG list) (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Originality/Points of Reference (was Classes and Races and more (a BIG list) (fwd)) Richard Ross
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Justin Rogers
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Rahul Sinha
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Justin Rogers
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Rahul Sinha
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Christopher Kohnert
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Rahul Sinha
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Greg Miller
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Greg Miller
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Greg Miller
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Jon A. Lambert
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Rahul Sinha
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Wesley W. Terpstra
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
>To: Rahul Sinha <rsinha@glue.umd.edu>
Cc: mud-dev@kanga.nu
Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd)
On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, Rahul Sinha <rsinha@glue.umd.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, J C Lawrence wrote:
> > [ forwarded for terpstra@iota.dhs.org ]
> >
> > Our plans (at present) are to make a compiler/interpreter for a custom
> > OO language and build the actual MUD completely in this language. As I
> > understand it, MOO already takes this approach. What I would like to
> > gather is a list of features that people consider essential to a MUD
> > programming language.
>
> is this more advantageous than coding the mud in C++ and making it
> scriptable via this language, that way you can have whatever language
> features you need to write the mud, and still avoid making the scripting
> langauge overcomplicated....
Well... The idea is that we would like to be able to change the underlying
protocol without needing a reboot. This is because we wanted to have a
special client program to render graphics. That way we can use openGL. :-)
Writing a scripting language isn't that difficult using flex&bison - two
tools I've used quite often. Besides, I would make it a purists langauge:
super short EBNF. ;-) Just to knit-pick, I meant a programming language -
not a scripting language. :-)
> > I also wanted to know of what MUDs currently implement any of the
> > following: multithreading
> A Good Thing...
Of course, but how do current in-MUD programming languages handle race
conditions? Do they do something similar to the java synchronize keyword?
Do they use semaphores? What? What? And what is the best in peoples
opinions?
> >guis
> making your mud room-less?
> so long as you keep your mud interface agnostic its ok... this will
> distract you from the rest of the mud, as a decent gui interface takes
> work (if you are doign more than simply applying menus and mapping as gui
> stiff...)
agnostic? I don't get the analogy...
There are several of us. One of us will be writing the client and telling
the server programmers what he wants for the protocols etc.
So, I have no problems with shunting work on him. :-)
We had planned on the actual gui being customizable between worlds, but
for the first server we would have a birds eye view like Ultima 6. (great
game!)
> >exploiting client processors,
> implies a client-side program (as opposed to useing telent or ssh to login
> to server...)
Of course. :-)
> I personally don't liek the idea, esp as cross platform is an issue unless
> you want to go with Java <blech>
Yes, I know. But making it have a gui already forces our hand, so why not
suck on their processor to lighten the servers burden?
Not being an openGL techie myself, I don't even know if java can do
openGL. Or if it can whether it can do it portably. Time to call up Alex.
> I personally am splitting up the traditional mud structure into a
> inetd-based concurrent server that is jsut the client program (ie here
> lies presentation, mapping stuff, etc), that connects via loopback to a
> "event server" that handles movement, etc, all physically manifested
> stuff, both using MySql for data storage, and IC AI stuff is implemented
> by virtual clients connecting to the event server from mob programs.
IC AI stuff? What is this? Some sort of 'bot that connects to your server
locally on one of the more programatical ports? That's interesting. I will
have to think on that.
Is inetd really a good choice? You'll be fork()ing like mad. How are your
components talking - TCP or some memoryish IPC?
You are storing your data in MySQL. That's a pretty good idea as long as
you have some major program level caching going on. Mind if I borrow it?
Our model was going to be more just one virtual machine which opens a
bunch of ports and connects objects (inMUD language) to the sockets and
tags on a thread or two. :-) Any problems with this model that
people have run into?
Of course, there's alot to be said for your model 'cept for the overhead
it's very modular. Hmmm. Hybridization time. *grin*
> all commands are implemented as shared libraries, so that they can be
> dlopen()ed during runtime (so as to not have to take down server)
Hmmm. That's interesting. I didn't think of that. In fact, I like that
very much. That's certainly faster than an interpreted language. Maybe
the MUD should allow you to code in C++ and compile to .so files which it
then loads on the fly. Of course this is a security can of worms, but...
I will have to think about this. Maybe a virtual machine isn't the only
solution.
> >pgp
> umm if you are talking about encrypting the text stream, just pawn off ssh
> now that there is an opensource version of it... pgp is more for
> non-streaming data authenticaiton and encryption
>
> > certificates about players so their characters can move from one server
> > to another w/o the two servers ever talking directly.
> servers talking is much better than trusting the client. Clients can be
> reverse-engineered...
You're not understanding my goal here:
I want clients to store certificates - player stats on their own machines.
We wanted to make this mud a sort of mud network that allows players to
move between systems freely and without needing to trust the new server.
So, when you 'save' your character the server runs a pseudo-diff on the
player status compared to the last save. It then timestamps and signs
these changes with the server's public key. The client program then
receives them.
What this gives you: a player can import the things they gained from one
server into another server as long as the new server trusts the old one.
You can even have trusted server rings like 'The All Canadian Magi League'
or something which is a ring of servers who all sign spells known with
their key, and include their public key signed by the leagues private
key. Hence a player can traverse these realms with all his spell casting
intact.
You see the potential? Forgetten realms characters can walk into Ravenloft
and some of their skills carry over and some don't. They are now under the
Ravenloft admin's jurisdiction and any missing skills can be explained
away as: "physically impossible to do a flying roundhouse kick from a
..."
PGP was designed for a web of trust, and this is exactly the use I want to
put it to on an inter-mud network. :-)
Also, this system lets a player who was wronged by some server admin just
drop that certificate from his character. It means he's now out of sync
with that server and will be rejected in future connection attempts, but
that he probably never planned on going back!
So, to summarize:
Servers keep state of the players.
Players keep incremental character diffs signed by the servers they were
obtained on.
When connecting, the player transmits any diffs the server hasn't seen.
The server chooses to accept them or not based on its trust of the signing
servers.
If a player is abused, he drops that servers diff and is now out of sync
with that server so cannot reconnect. However, he may continue to play
elsewhere.
Cool 'eh? This is why I want to know if anyone has already done this or
whether I can stamp my name on it. ;-)
If we get going on this, I fully intend to include this. Now if only RSA
was proven secure... *sigh*
Anyways, more ideas please! :-)
- ---
E-mail: terpstra@interchange.ubc.ca Host: iota.dhs.org
PGP key: hkp://wwwkeys.us.pgp.net/terpstra@interchange.ubc.ca
http://www.iota.dhs.org/pgp-keys/terpstra.pgp
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Greg Miller
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Rahul Sinha
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Wesley W. Terpstra
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Rahul Sinha
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Greg Miller
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Greg Miller
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Wesley W. Terpstra
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Rahul Sinha
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) Rahul Sinha
- Collecting ideas for a MUD server... (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Originality/Points of Reference Ian Klimon, Esq.
- Job Openings - Mud Engineering Christopher Allen
- PGP player certificates (was: collecting ideas...) Wesley W. Terpstra
- PGP player certificates (was: collecting ideas...) David Bennett
- Re[4]: The grass is always greener in the other field Travis Casey
- Re[4]: The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- Re[4]: The grass is always greener in the other field Adam Wiggins
- Two threads forced to one CPU? (was: Collecting ideas for a MUD server...) Wesley W. Terpstra
- Two threads forced to one CPU? (was: Collecting ideas for a MUD server...) J C Lawrence
- Two threads forced to one CPU? (was: Collecting ideas for a MUD server...) Marc Bowden
- Two threads forced to one CPU? (was: Collecting ideas for a MUD server...) Greg Miller
- Two threads forced to one CPU? (was: Collecting ideas for a MUD server...) cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Two threads forced to one CPU? (was: Collecting ideas for a MUD server...) Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Two threads forced to one CPU? (was: Collecting ideas for a MUD server...) cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- PGP confusions hopefully resolved (was: collecting ideas ...) Wesley W. Terpstra
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #237 - 9 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #237 - 9 msgs J C Lawrence
- MUD relevant references (was: The grass is always greener...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Re[6]: The grass is always greener in the other field Travis Casey
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. Joe Kingry
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. Laurent Bossavit
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. Kevin Littlejohn
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. J C Lawrence
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. J C Lawrence
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. Jay Carlson
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. Jay Carlson
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. J C Lawrence
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. icecube@ihug.co.nz
- Embedded languages, object persistance... ack. Kevin Littlejohn
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Christer Enfors
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Rahul Sinha
- Storing tokens with flex & bison J C Lawrence
- Storing tokens with flex & bison cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Christer Enfors
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Storing tokens with flex & bison J C Lawrence
- Storing tokens with flex & bison cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Jon A. Lambert
- Storing tokens with flex & bison cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Jon A. Lambert
- Storing tokens with flex & bison cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Jon A. Lambert
- Storing tokens with flex & bison cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Jon A. Lambert
- Storing tokens with flex & bison cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Kevin Littlejohn
- Storing tokens with flex & bison cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Phillip Lenhardt
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Dominic J. Eidson
- Storing tokens with flex & bison cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Chris Jones
- Storing tokens with flex & bison J C Lawrence
- Storing tokens with flex & bison cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Per Vognsen
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Christer Enfors
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Chris Turner
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Christer Enfors
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Jon A. Lambert
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Christer Enfors
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Jon A. Lambert
- Storing tokens with flex & bison J C Lawrence
- Storing tokens with flex & bison Greg Miller
- Storing tokens with flex & bison J C Lawrence