January 1999
- From DevMud: Database module Greg Connor
- From DevMud: Database module Mik Clarke
- From DevMud: Database module Greg Connor
- From DevMud: Database module J C Lawrence
- From DevMud: Database module Greg Connor
- ADMIN: Resends and possible duplicates J C Lawrence
- Info about different skill systems Emil Eifrem
- Info about different skill systems Nathan F Yospe
- Info about different skill systems Ben Greear
- Info about different skill systems Emil Eifrem
- Info about different skill systems Ben Greear
- Info about different skill systems Emil Eifrem
- Info about different skill systems Nathan F Yospe
- Info about different skill systems Travis S. Casey
- Info about different skill systems Mik Clarke
- New features for ScryMUD (Player-run Shops) Ben Greear
- [OT Humor] Mudder's Rhapsody Jon A. Lambert
- [OT Humor] Mudder's Rhapsody Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [OT Humor] Mudder's Rhapsody The Wildman
- Guild/skill/spell relation (or "webs") Petri Virkkula
- Guild/skill/spell relation (or "webs") David Bennett
- mobile movement Matthew Mihaly
- mobile movement Adam Wiggins
- mobile movement Koster, Raph
- mobile movement Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- mobile movement David Bennett
- mobile movement Kylotan
- mobile movement quzah [softhome]
- mobile movement Ling
- mobile movement J C Lawrence
- mobile movement Oliver Jowett
- mobile movement Oliver Jowett
- mobile movement Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- mobile movement Richard Woolcock
- mobile movement J C Lawrence
- mobile movement Ling
- mobile movement Marc Hernandez
- mobile movement J C Lawrence
- mobile movement Ling
- mobile movement Holly Sommer
- mobile movement Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- mobile movement Koster, Raph
- mobile movement Chris Gray
- Intelligent WebGlimpse archive searching at Kanga.Nu (was J C Lawrence
- [RRE]MediaMOO annual birthday symposia: 1/20 Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- [RRE]MediaMOO annual birthday symposia: 1/20 Koster, Raph
- OT: Mike Sellers needs some help load testing J C Lawrence
- Keegan's MUD Tree J C Lawrence
- Intelligent WebGlimpse archive searching at Kanga.Nu Marian Griffith
- Intelligent WebGlimpse archive searching at Kanga.Nu Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Intelligent WebGlimpse archive searching at Kanga.Nu Dominic J. Eidson
- Intelligent WebGlimpse archive searching at Kanga.Nu J C Lawrence
- Intelligent WebGlimpse archive searching at Kanga.Nu Marian Griffith
- GRASS GIS Web Site Elis Pomales
- Thoughts Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- mobile movement (the fault of tracking) quzah [softhome]
- ADMIN Name server problems and upes J C Lawrence
- Adjective Server Christopher Allen
- Reputations, More Mazes Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Reputations, More Mazes J C Lawrence
- Reputations, More Mazes Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Mules (was something different) Marian Griffith
- Mules (was something different) J C Lawrence
- Mules (was something different) Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Levels versus Skills Marian Griffith
- Levels versus Skills Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Levels versus Skills J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills quzah [softhome]
- Levels versus Skills Vladimir Prelovac
- Levels versus Skills quzah [softhome]
- Levels versus Skills J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills Petri Virkkula
- Levels versus Skills J C Lawrence
- Levels versus Skills Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- From Devmud: Database module, draft 3 Greg Connor
- Matrix Game Ling
- Graphic design doc Thinus Barnard
- Graphic design doc Chris Gray
- ADMIN: List server and Kanga.Nu host changes J C Lawrence
- ADMIN: List server and Kanga.Nu host changes Koster, Raph
- Sockets and fibers Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Sockets and fibers Adam J. Thornton
- Sockets and fibers Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Sockets and fibers J C Lawrence
- Sockets and fibers Jon A. Lambert
- Sockets and fibers Adam J. Thornton
- Sockets and fibers Dr. Cat
- Sockets and fibers Jo Dillon
- [DevMUD] From Devmud: Database module, draft 3 Greg Connor
- META: list "peerage" Koster, Raph
- META: list "peerage" John Bertoglio
- META: list "peerage" diablo@best.com
- META: list "peerage" Andy Cink
- META: list "peerage" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: list "peerage" Quzah [softhome]
- META: list "peerage" Michael.Willey@abnamro.com
- META: list "peerage" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: list "peerage" Holly Sommer
- META: list "peerage" Travis S. Casey
- META: list "peerage" Andy Cink
- META: list "peerage" Quzah [softhome]
- META: list "peerage" Matthew D. Fuller
- META: list "peerage" Laurel Fan
- META: list "peerage" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: list "peerage" David Bennett
- META: list "peerage" Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- META: list "peerage" diablo@best.com
- META: list "peerage" Matthew D. Fuller
- META: list "peerage" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: list "peerage" Brandon A Downey
- META: list "peerage" Travis Casey
- META: list "peerage" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: list "peerage" Dominic J. Eidson
- META: List "peerage" Marian Griffith
- META: List "peerage" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: list "peerage" Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: list "peerage" Sayeed
- Mugu Chris Gray
- META: List peerage and behaviour J C Lawrence
- META: list "peerage" Chris Gray
- ADMIN: We're working again. J C Lawrence
- Java I/O and threads. Elis Pomales
- Java I/O and threads. Jo Dillon
- Java I/O and threads. cynbe@muq.org
- Java I/O and threads. Jo Dillon
- Java I/O and threads. Elis Pomales
- Reset Death Wes Connell
- Reset Death Quzah [softhome]
- Reset Death Wes Connell
- Reset Death Mik Clarke
- Reset Death Andrew C.M. McClintock
- Reset Death Mik Clarke
- PvP and mob capacities (was "List Peerage") Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- combat diablo@best.com
- combat Andy Cink
- combat Holly Sommer
- combat diablo@best.com
- combat J C Lawrence
- combat diablo@best.com
On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, J C Lawrence wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:50:32 -0800 (PST)
> diablo <diablo@best.com> wrote:
>
> > In fact, no. The difference is that what you are trying to do in
> > combat on a mud (at least what I was always trying to do) when
> > killing someone was break their spirit.
>
> And one wonders why I like permadeath systems...
We'll agree to disagree here.
> > Death in a mud (at least in the ones I'm interested in) is not
> > permanent like real life. Killing someone repeatedly is analogous to
> > 'breaking' a wild horse. You heap death upon death on someone,
> > repeatedly strip them of everything they own, and never let them
> > walk the land without constant fear of You.
>
> In a permadeath game this is equivalent to repeatedly attacking them
> and either bringing them close to death, or making your threat of
> death very real. The mechanics are the same, its just that death is
> no longer a waystation or counting statistic along the process.
> Instead the metric is, "How often did he get me in a position where I
> was at direct risk of dieing?"
Assuming I'm playing a sadistic player, why would I not just kill the
person? I don't know how your method of combat works of course, and I
believe I recall you mentioning that you don't want combat to be a huge
part of your game, but I am a large fan of player vs. player combat for
the simple reason that it allows for adrenaline rushes in a text game and
for real person to person conflicts. It is like the rush of competing and
winning or the rush of competing followd by the depression of losing in an
athletic event. There is a real sense of being bested or besting another.
I guess I don't see counting up how many times I was at direct risk of
dying as arousing particularly strong emotions which, to me, is one of the
major points of player vs. player combat in a mud.
> > Eventually, if they do not quit the game (acceptable losses), you
> > can show them a little bit of kindness (give the horse a sugar cube)
> > and then their soul is yours.
>
> I have yet to see this work. More typically I see, "See how cool I
> am, I can really kick your arse!" Followed by, "I helped you a whole
> bunch, so I'm not really a Bad Guy!" There's a fair frequency of the
> initial victim then returning the favour by using the skills learned
> (often from his initial attacker) to drive his initial attacker from
> the game (revenge).
Sounds like your average 15 year old's mentality. It only works on someone
who is so addicted that he or she can't quit the game, and when you are
good enough or your opponent incompetent enough that there is no real
chance of him or her ever besting you. If they have that hope, then it
won't work, as they'll sit there endlessly plotting against you. They also
can't think that you h ave some sort of in-game advantage that they cannot
gain, as then they'll just write off the defeats. The idea is that they
have to feel that you are not only a superior character but a superior
person, at least in every way that counts in the game.
>
> Revenge relationships tend to be much more tenuous and vastly more
> indirect in permadeath games.
I'd imagine so, though I have not ever played one. I can certainly see the
value, especially as far as the quality of roleplaying goes, in a
permadeath game (at least if it isn't easy to kill someone permanently).
It's a different sort of experience than what I aim for in my game though,
and I don't think the two are reconciliable differences. I find both
attractive, but as someone who runs a game where players sometimes invest
thousands in their characters, I don't have the option of killing off
players.
--matt
- combat diablo@best.com
- combat Ben Greear
- META: list "peerage" Darrin Hyrup
- META: list "peerage" J C Lawrence
- Telmaron and Mud servers was: META: list "peerage" Elis Pomales
- META: list "peerage" Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- META: list "peerage" Ben Greear
- Who is? (was about level vs skills) Marian Griffith
- Who is? (was about level vs skills) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- exploration points diablo@best.com
- [MUD-Dev] Juha Lindfors
- Stock Mud Demographics ##Make Nylander
- ADMIN: Off-topic and the ever present reminders on quoting. J C Lawrence
- Mud reviewing Andy Cink
- Mud reviewing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Mud reviewing diablo@best.com
- Mud reviewing Andru Luvisi
- Mud reviewing diablo@best.com
- Mud reviewing J C Lawrence
- Mud reviewing Dan Shiovitz
- Mud reviewing diablo@best.com
- Mud reviewing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Mud reviewing diablo@best.com
- Mud reviewing Richard Woolcock
- Mud reviewing David Bennett
- Mud reviewing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Admin skills Hal Black
- Subdue Holly Sommer
- processors diablo@best.com
- processors John Bertoglio
- processors Wes Connell
- processors Laurel Fan
- processors Mik Clarke
- processors J C Lawrence
- processors diablo@best.com
- processors Quzah [softhome]
- processors Mik Clarke
- processors J C Lawrence
- processors Marc Hernandez
- processors Adam Wiggins
- processors Greg Underwood
- processors Adam Wiggins
- processors Chris Gray
- processors gunderwood@donet.com
- processors Jon A. Lambert
- processors Greg Underwood
- processors Petri Virkkula
- quests involving players diablo@best.com
- quests involving players Darren Henderson
- quests involving players Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- quests involving players Richard Woolcock